What is the purpose of the Sabbath?

[DamianWarS]

1. Circumcision was not given as part of God's moral law as it was given to Abraham as the sign of his friendship with God and was to be passed down through his posterity as the Israelites were God's chosen people through which His law was to be given to the world and the world's Redeemer was to come. Abraham was to be the father of many nations and through him all nations of the earth were to be blessed.

2. Have you never read Matthew chapter 1?



Notice Jesus is to save His people from their sins, not in their sins. God is very good. He wants to deliver us from not only the guilt and shame of sin but to save us from the self destructive consequences of sin for it always has very negative consequences in our lives that bring us pain and heartache and not only to us, but to those around us.

Have you read Gen 17? It's pretty explicit and it is an everlasting covenant.

"moral law" also needs to be unpacked because that is a term missing in my Bible. If you intend to conflat the 10 commandments with "moral law" then on what authority do you do this? Where is this definition in the bible? Does it include other laws (ie. dietary laws)? Why is the 4th commandment considered moral based? is it not explicitly cerimonial resting to remember the 7th day?

If the 4th is innately moral then why does Jesus tell us doing good keeps the Sabbath if "Sabbath keeping" itself is not already innately moral. In fact Jesus gives us examples of how by letter the 4th is broken but yet goodness redeems the act. So it is acts of morality itself (goodness) that may circumvent the requirement of the 4th commandment which establishes a higher moral to the 4th if we can call the 4th moral based at all.

Is it moral to shovel snow of the driveway of the elderly widow next door? Or is it more moral to leave it because it's the Sabbath? While you're thinking about the moral delima the Muslim next door just finished the job.

 

[Bob S]

Have you read Gen 17? It's pretty explicit and it is an everlasting covenant.

"moral law" also needs to be unpacked because that is a term missing in my Bible. If you intend to conflat the 10 commandments with "moral law" then on what authority do you do this? Where is this definition in the bible? Does it include other laws (ie. dietary laws)? Why is the 4th commandment considered moral based? is it not explicitly cerimonial resting to remember the 7th day?

If the 4th is innately moral then why does Jesus tell us doing good keeps the Sabbath if "Sabbath keeping" itself is not already innately moral. In fact Jesus gives us examples of how by letter the 4th is broken but yet goodness redeems the act. So it is acts of morality itself (goodness) that may circumvent the requirement of the 4th commandment which establishes a higher moral to the 4th if we can call the 4th moral based at all.

Is it moral to shovel snow of the driveway of the elderly widow next door? Or is it more moral to leave it because it's the Sabbath? While you're thinking about the moral delima the Muslim next door just finished the job.

Laws dealing with morality are everlasting. laws dealing with ceremonies given at Sinai were for as long as the covenant lasted. The weekly Sabbath was ceremonial law as were all the other festivals. Circumcision would have been a ceremony.

Morality laws deal with how we treat others and ourselves. SDAs will not recognize the fact that the weekly Sabbath was a ceremonial law. They also refuse to acknowledge 2Cor 3:6-11 correctly. Paul in those verses tell the Jews they are no longer under the guidance of the Ministry of death (10 commandments) we now have the Holy Spirit as our guide which is much more glorious. Gentile nations were never under the laws given at Sinai.

 

[DamianWarS]

Laws dealing with morality are everlasting. laws dealing with ceremonies given at Sinai were for as long as the covenant lasted. The weekly Sabbath was ceremonial law as were all the other festivals. Circumcision would have been a ceremony.

Morality laws deal with how we treat others and ourselves. SDAs will not recognize the fact that the weekly Sabbath was a ceremonial law. They also refuse to acknowledge 2Cor 3:6-11 correctly. Paul in those verses tell the Jews they are no longer under the guidance of the Ministry of death (10 commandments) we now have the Holy Spirit as our guide which is much more glorious. Gentile nations were never under the laws given at Sinai.

I agree but it's a constant battle of semantics. Critically speaking moral laws are defined as you have put it and the 4th commandment would not be a part of this. SDA however has embedded into its doctrines a dichotomised law labeling them moral and ceremonial. "Moral" essentially is the 10 commandments, and ceremonial is everything else. Their use of "moral" however cannot be critically defended and really is just a label or a misnomer. SDA followers seem to refuse to enter into a critical discussion about the use of this terminology and only accept moral law as equivalent to the 10 commandments and the 10 commandments as equivalent to moral law and it's just a constant circular argument.

To have a productive conversation both sides need to agree on what "moral" means and then apply that definition to scripture. If we cannot agree then this argument will never be finished because, in the end, SDA seems to only want to accept what SDA says, which is the first tell that something is up.

 

[Gary K]

I agree but it's a constant battle of semantics. Critically speaking moral laws are defined as you have put it and the 4th commandment would not be a part of this. SDA however has embedded into its doctrines a dichotomised law labeling them moral and ceremonial. "Moral" essentially is the 10 commandments, and ceremonial is everything else. Their use of "moral" however cannot be critically defended and really is just a label or a misnomer. SDA followers seem to refuse to enter into a critical discussion about the use of this terminology and only accept moral law as equivalent to the 10 commandments and the 10 commandments as equivalent to moral law and it's just a constant circular argument.

To have a productive conversation both sides need to agree on what "moral" means and then apply that definition to scripture. If we cannot agree then this argument will never be finished because, in the end, SDA seems to only want to accept what SDA says, which is the first tell that something is up.

So, in your mind a set of laws that lost their relevance after Christ's death are still in force to anyone who keeps the 10 commandments. The 10 are purely moral in character. The ceremonial laws are not. They are for all intents and purposes prophetic laws as they looked forward to Jesus.

 

[DamianWarS]

So, in your mind a set of laws that lost their relevance after Christ's death are still in force to anyone who keeps the 10 commandments. The 10 are purely moral in character. The ceremonial laws are not. They are for all intents and purposes prophetic laws as they looked forward to Jesus.

The entire law has the same relevance as it has the some focus, which is pointing to Christ, this includes the 10 (regardless what labels you call them). There are lots of moral overlap outside the 10 and the 4th does not have a moral nature (it's more ceremonial/memorial based) If it did why does Christ tells us that it is lawful to break our rest to do goodness? (Mat 12)

Outside the 4th the 10 is a lot of "do nots" but not a lot of "dos" which prevents the immoral but doesn't address moral actions. If the 10 are moral law they are flawed moral law and Christ gives better instructions for moral living than then 10 ever does. (See Mat 5) I may never steal from my neighbour or murder them, lie to them, covet them, sleep with the wife, etc... but at the same time I may hate them and do nothing to show love. I am justified by the law yet completly miss the point. Thus the 10 are incomplete to be called the only moral law.

 

[Bob S]

The ten say absolutely nothing about love, which is the greatest command.

 

[pasifika]

Law is a "way" to achieve or obtain something.
In the bible the goal is to be "like" God (image & likeness"). This is called "Righteousness".

The law or "way" is either by OC or NC (either by "letter" as in OC or "Spirit" as in NC). Romans 7:6

We cannot be like God by following the "letter" but by the leading of the "Spirit".

 

[HIM]

Law is a "way" to achieve or obtain something.
In the bible the goal is to be "like" God (image & likeness"). This is called "Righteousness".

The law or "way" is either by OC or NC (either by "letter" as in OC or "Spirit" as in NC). Romans 7:6

We cannot be like God by following the "letter" but by the leading of the "Spirit".

Please see the quote below

the Lord has made it easier for us by giving of Himself. His Spirit and therefore His Word, the law are now in our hearts and thereby we are changed. Now they are not commandments as if we do them because we have to, they are laws in that they are part of who we are. As in Nature, the law of gravity or that of thermodynamics. It just is so we do and those who don't aren't.

 

[HIM]

The ten say absolutely nothing about love, which is the greatest command.

Not true at all.
Exod 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[HIM]

The entire law has the same relevance as it has the some focus, which is pointing to Christ, this includes the 10 (regardless what labels you call them). There are lots of moral overlap outside the 10 and the 4th does not have a moral nature (it's more ceremonial/memorial based) If it did why does Christ tells us that it is lawful to break our rest to do goodness? (Mat 12)

Outside the 4th the 10 is a lot of "do nots" but not a lot of "dos" which prevents the immoral but doesn't address moral actions. If the 10 are moral law they are flawed moral law and Christ gives better instructions for moral living than then 10 ever does. (See Mat 5) I may never steal from my neighbour or murder them, lie to them, covet them, sleep with the wife, etc... but at the same time I may hate them and do nothing to show love. I am justified by the law yet completly miss the point. Thus the 10 are incomplete to be called the only moral law.

The Ten can be as will not. To those who will not they are commands. But to those who will, they will not steal, kill, et cetera, et cetera.

 

[DamianWarS]

The Ten can be as will not. To those who will not they are commands. But to those who will, they will not steal, kill, et cetera, et cetera.

The "to those who will" may make for a cute devotional but is In fact the part that's missing in the text.

 

[HIM]

The "to those who will" may make for a cute devotional but is In fact the part that's missing in the text.

If one won't they ain't.

 

[Gary K]

The ten say absolutely nothing about love, which is the greatest command.

That is untrue. The the principle behind all of them is loving God and loving others because if we love others we will not lie to or about them, cheat them in any way, envy them for what they have, commit adultery, nor will we not love our parents and honor them for that contributes to the breakdown of the family and the breakdown of society itself.

 

[Gary K]

The "to those who will" may make for a cute devotional but is In fact the part that's missing in the text.

And that is an argument agsinst HIM's statement? All kinds of things are implied or the word would not exist in our language. Did you know that many Indian tribes had no word for lie in their language until the white man came in contact with them as to deceive anyone when speaking to them was so foreign a concept to them that it had never been thought of.

 

[DamianWarS]

And that is an argument agsinst HIM's statement? All kinds of things are implied or the word would not exist in our language. Did you know that many Indian tribes had no word for lie in their language until the white man came in contact with them as to deceive anyone when speaking to them was so foreign a concept to them that it had never been thought of.

Interesting, but anecdotal

 

[Studyman]

That is untrue. The the principle behind all of them is loving God and loving others because if we love others we will not lie to or about them, cheat them in any way, envy them for what they have, commit adultery, nor will we not love our parents and honor them for that contributes to the breakdown of the family and the breakdown of society itself.

Yes, this is a great truth. God instructs men, not only to Love one another, but "How" to Love one another. In my understanding, God also instructs men to Love Him, and in the same manner, also teaches men "How" to Love Him. This is why I believe the Sabbath Commandment and the Command not to create images of God in the likeness of men, and the command not to steal from another are all equally important.

"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Please understand that I am not advocating for one religious sect or franchise over another. I am simply posting the Words of God as HE defines for me, HIS instruction concerning one of His Commandments.

I agree with your post regarding the breakdown of the Family, and that if I choose to become partial in the Law, maybe to disregard God's instruction regarding adultery, how this contributes to the breakdown of the family. I have also come to understand that the rejection of God's Sabbath, has contributed to the breakdown of the Family of God, AKA, "The Body of Christ". Given it was created by God "For man", then those who reject it, do not receive its intended and very important purpose. This practice of "Judging God" as creating irrelevant Commandments, or Commandments not worthy of men's honor and respect, contributes to the breakdown of our relationship with God, in my view. Paul speaks to this. "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

I think this is the point Jesus was making about the "many" who will call HIM, Lord, Lord but transgress God's Commandments, in Matt. 7.

Great post.

 

[DamianWarS]

That is untrue. The the principle behind all of them is loving God and loving others because if we love others we will not lie to or about them, cheat them in any way, envy them for what they have, commit adultery, nor will we not love our parents and honor them for that contributes to the breakdown of the family and the breakdown of society itself.

Christ tells us all the law and prophets hang upon the two greatest commands (ie. law of love). So there is truth in saying there is a principal or construct behind the 10 that is love driven. The perspective of the 10 however are about what not to do rather than what to do which can promote legalism absent of love which was a problem surrounding Jesus and what he was teaching against. Certainly not the intent of the 10 but an eventually byproduct. Jesus's message was still driven by the same principals or constructs of the 10 but his focus is more about how to love then it is about what not to do. This is one reason why the law is so good at exposing sin.

Clear examples of this love focus is Christ's compassion on others despite breaking social decorum such as healing on the Sabbath, hanging out with sinners, passing through Samaria or stopping the stoning of woman caught breaking the law. Parables like the good Samaritan also are clear examples of this focus of doing love as well as his explicit teaching the commandment to love form the 2 greatest commandments that all the law is based off of. This is just to name a few of course.

What this shows us is it's not the 10 commandments that reach outside their covenant into the next but the moral constructs they are based on that are universal. As you yourself conclude "the principle behind all of [the 10 commandments] is loving God and loving others" indeed this is correct. So it is not the 10 commandments we should be looking at as we have established their focus of what not to do is flawed, but instead we should be looking at the principal that is the foundation of the law.

 

[Gary K]

Christ tells us all the law and prophets hang upon the two greatest commands (ie. law of love). So there is truth in saying there is a principal or construct behind the 10 that is love driven. The perspective of the 10 however are about what not to do rather than what to do which can promote legalism absent of love which was a problem surrounding Jesus and what he was teaching against. Certainly not the intent of the 10 but an eventually byproduct. Jesus's message was still driven by the same principals or constructs of the 10 but his focus is more about how to love then it is about what not to do. This is one reason why the law is so good at exposing sin.

Clear examples of this love focus is Christ's compassion on others despite breaking social decorum such as healing on the Sabbath, hanging out with sinners, passing through Samaria or stopping the stoning of woman caught breaking the law. Parables like the good Samaritan also are clear examples of this focus of doing love as well as his explicit teaching the commandment to love form the 2 greatest commandments that all the law is based off of. This is just to name a few of course.

What this shows us is it's not the 10 commandments that reach outside their covenant into the next but the moral constructs they are based on that are universal. As you yourself conclude "the principle behind all of [the 10 commandments] is loving God and loving others" indeed this is correct. So it is not the 10 commandments we should be looking at as we have established their focus of what not to do is flawed, but instead we should be looking at the principal that is the foundation of the law.

I will disagree once again. Jesus' life here on earth was a perfect exposition of keeping the 10 commandments. He could not have failed in any nitpicking sense and still have been our Savior.

 

[Leaf473]

Not true at all.
Exod 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Is that one of the Ten?

 

[Leaf473]

I will disagree once again. Jesus' life here on earth was a perfect exposition of keeping the 10 commandments. He could not have failed in any nitpicking sense and still have been our Savior.

It was a perfect exposition of the entire law, was it not?