Did Adam have Eternal Life Pre-Fall?

[coffee4u]

How did they change inwardly?

They died spiritually, their eyes were 'opened'. This happened as soon as Adam ate.
Genesis 3. Then the eyes of both of them were opened

Shame
From being naked and without shame they now felt shame and covered themselves.
Genesis 2:25
Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Genesis 7
they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Separation from God
Adam was created to have a close connection to God. To be able to converse face to face directly.
Genesis 2:16 is God directly interacting, talking/commanding Adam.
15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

God walking in the garden was not new to them, what was new was their reaction towards him.
Genesis 3
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

Cursed Physical body
The body would now die because of what Adam had done.
“Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

 

[timothyu]

Shame? Just like the family pet they simply had no idea they were naked. Who told them was the question for now they knew. Awareness.

 

[sawdust]

They died spiritually, their eyes were 'opened'. This happened as soon as Adam ate.
Genesis 3. Then the eyes of both of them were opened

Shame
From being naked and without shame they now felt shame and covered themselves.
Genesis 2:25
Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Genesis 7
they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Separation from God
Adam was created to have a close connection to God. To be able to converse face to face directly.
Genesis 2:16 is God directly interacting, talking/commanding Adam.
15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

God walking in the garden was not new to them, what was new was their reaction towards him.
Genesis 3
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

Cursed Physical body
The body would now die because of what Adam had done.
“Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

That covered the external changes but you said they changed inwardly. So what do you think the inward changes were?

 

[coffee4u]

That covered the external changes but you said they changed inwardly. So what do you think the inward changes were?

Shame is internal
spiritual death is internal.
Your body slowly dying is both internal and external.

 

[coffee4u]

Shame? Just like the family pet they simply had no idea they were naked. Who told them was the question for now they knew. Awareness.

Shame goes much further than "I didn't know I was naked (like a dog) now I am aware that I am"

Revelation 3​

17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked."

Revelation 3:18​

18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

In Genesis 2:25 their nakedness showed purity of mind and innocence. They had nothing to be ashamed about before God.
In Genesis 3:7 They try and cover themselves, not just because of their body showing, they are trying to hide their sin, their loss of innocence. They felt shame because They knew they had committed something evil.
Their nakedness was not the problem, the sin was.

 

[peaceful-forest]

Did Adam have eternal life before the fall? No. The Garden of Eden also had the Tree of Life. If Adam had eaten from the Tree of Life, he would've lived forever.

Genesis 3:22-23 NIV:
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

 

[timothyu]

Their nakedness was not the problem, the sin was.

And the sin was putting their will ahead of the will of God.

 

[Clare73]

And the sin was putting their will ahead of the will of God.

That's called disobedience in the Bible.

 

[timothyu]

That's called disobedience in the Bible.

Whatever. It was still the original sin.

 

[sawdust]

Shame goes much further than "I didn't know I was naked (like a dog) now I am aware that I am"

I think they knew they were naked because there was a visible difference.

Psalm 8:5
For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor.

I think this glory was a visible "glow", a form of light emanating from their bodies, most likely quite subtle but maybe more. Compare Christ's transformation, keeping in mind there are degrees of difference in glory. 1 Corinthians 15:41

Matthew 17:2
and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

This was a vision of the future Christ in His resurrection body, at a time when He would be glorified.

 

[sawdust]

And the sin was putting their will ahead of the will of God.

Agreed. By putting their desire to eat (their will) ahead of God's command not to eat (God's will), led them to breaking the law.

James 1:15
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

The Cross stands as witness that breaking the law isn't an insurmountable problem. Refusing to be corrected and putting God's will first is the real problem for the very thing needed to correct is the very thing rejected ie. the truth.

Proverbs 24:16
For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

 

[Chaleb]

This issue was raised in another thread that I didn't get a chance to respond to as I went on holidays and it was off topic so thought I would deal with it here and see what you all have to say for yourselves.
I say he didn't as eternal life is imputed to our spirit and if Adam had eternal life he could not have died spiritually. It's also the reason we don't die even though we sin. You can't perish (spiritually) and have eternal life at the same time.

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

What say you?

There is a misconception that you posted, and that is........"died spiritually".

And this word "died" is related to how a human thinks........which is to end.....to stop.

However, the bible is a spiritual book.....And Adam's spirit didn't die, ... but this phrase "died spiritually" if taken for face value says exactly that.


Now, what happened to Adam is that his Spirit that was "one with God" was separated from this spiritual union...., and that is the understanding....of "died spiritually".


Jesus, the 2nd Adam, comes to bring us back into Spiritual Union with God........ by us being "Born again".

When Jesus the 2nd Adam says, ... to you.....>"YOU must be born again" then that means you must be rejoined to God Spiritually exactly as 1st Adam was joined, before he rebelled and became spiritually separated or "fallen".......from God.

Being "born again", means that God has rejoined your spirit into His...>"one with God"....>"in Christ", by the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit births your spirit into God's Spirit.

That is what it actually means to be "born again" and become a CHRISTian"....

 

[sawdust]

There is a misconception that you posted, and that is........"died spiritually".

And this word "died" is related to how a human thinks........which is to end.....to stop.

However, the bible is a spiritual book.....And Adam's spirit didn't die, ... but this phrase "died spiritually" if taken for face value says exactly that.


Now, what happened to Adam is that his Spirit that was "one with God" was separated from this spiritual union...., and that is the understanding....of "died spiritually".


Jesus, the 2nd Adam, comes to bring us back into Spiritual Union with God........ by us being "Born again".

When Jesus the 2nd Adam says, ... to you.....>"YOU must be born again" then that means you must be rejoined to God Spiritually exactly as 1st Adam was joined, before he rebelled and became spiritually separated or "fallen".......from God.

Being "born again", means that God has rejoined your spirit into His...>"one with God"....>"in Christ", by the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit births your spirit into God's Spirit.

That is what it actually means to be "born again" and become a CHRISTian"....

John 3:6 gives a very simple analogy. Flesh begets flesh. Flesh is producing something from itself. It is not joining itself to something already existing.

Of course Adam's spirit didn't die because our spirits are immortal and incorruptible but it did return to God when He sinned and in so doing he lost his spiritual life. Now the Holy Spirit had no apparatus to connect with. In this sense he died spiritually. To have a spiritual life is to be connected to God and you need a spirit for that to happen just as you need a bike to be a bike rider.

 

[Chaleb]

John 3:6 gives a very simple analogy. Flesh begets flesh. Flesh is producing something from itself. It is not joining itself to something already existing.

Of course Adam's spirit didn't die because our spirits are immortal and incorruptible but it did return to God when He sinned and in so doing he lost his spiritual life. Now the Holy Spirit had no apparatus to connect with. In this sense he died spiritually. To have a spiritual life is to be connected to God and you need a spirit for that to happen just as you need a bike to be a bike rider.

Being born again, means that the Holy Spirit who created JESUS inside a Virgin's womb.......also births our spirit into God's, ..
This is to become "one with God"....>"in Christ".

= Born Again .... Spiritually

 

[sawdust]

Being born again, means that the Holy Spirit who created JESUS inside a Virgin's womb.......also births our spirit into God's, ..
This is to become "one with God"....>"in Christ".

= Born Again .... Spiritually

No OT saint was in union with Christ. How were they spiritually alive?

ps. He didn't create Jesus, He prepared a body for the incarnation of the Word.

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me.

 

[Chaleb]

No OT saint was in union with Christ.

Adam is not an "Old Testament Saint'.

There was no "Christ" in the Garden of Eden.

There was no "Cross of Christ" in the Garden of Eden.


Adam walked with God, and Adam was made in God's image. God "Breathed" into Adam, and Adam was made alive by this Spirit of God.
Adam had "Spiritual union" with God that he lost when he rebelled.

When a person is born again, they regain this "Spiritual Union' with God... "One with God'....'In Christ".

If you read John 20:22, you'll find Jesus , after his resurrection, does the same with the 11 Apostles.

 

[timothyu]

Resurrection is being born again if you want to get technical and it truly is of the spirit, not of flesh

 

[Chaleb]

ps. He didn't create Jesus, He prepared a body for the incarnation of the Word.

God prepared a body for Himself, you mean?

1 Timothy 3:16

John 1:10

Colossians 1:16

In other words..>"God who is A Spirit", created Christ in a virgin's womb without male seed.

That's true.

Do a study on the name of Jesus.
That is not just a Name.

Its a "name above EVERY Name".

 

[Chaleb]

Resurrection is being born again if you want to get technical and it truly is of the spirit, not of flesh

Yes, that is what i wrote in about 5 Posts.


Let me do it again.

Born again = God's Holy Spirit, BIRTH'S your spirit into HIS....... this is "Spiritual Union" with God.

= Born Again Spiritually.

This is how we become ... "One with God"...."in Christ', and its also how we become : "The temple of the Holy Spirit"

 

[timothyu]

I'm talking post first death