Did Adam have Eternal Life Pre-Fall?

[sawdust]

This issue was raised in another thread that I didn't get a chance to respond to as I went on holidays and it was off topic so thought I would deal with it here and see what you all have to say for yourselves.
I say he didn't as eternal life is imputed to our spirit and if Adam had eternal life he could not have died spiritually. It's also the reason we don't die even though we sin. You can't perish (spiritually) and have eternal life at the same time.

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

What say you?

 

[disciple Clint]

This issue was raised in another thread that I didn't get a chance to respond to as I went on holidays and it was off topic so thought I would deal with it here and see what you all have to say for yourselves.
I say he didn't as eternal life is imputed to our spirit and if Adam had eternal life he could not have died spiritually. It's also the reason we don't die even though we sin. You can't perish (spiritually) and have eternal life at the same time.

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

What say you?

Adam, made in the image of God, had eternal life until he sinned, the result of sin is death, Jesus, the second Adam obeyed God, died on the cross and restored eternal life to all those who accept Him as their savior.

 

[sawdust]

Adam, made in the image of God, had eternal life until he sinned, the result of sin is death, Jesus, the second Adam obeyed God, died on the cross and restored eternal life to all those who accept Him as their savior.

That doesn't explain how he can die if he had eternal life. Why don't we die when we sin?

 

[grasping the after wind]

​

I can't say I know the answer to this question but here are biblical verses that could be used to argue that eternal life was not a gift from God prior to Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.

Genesis 3:22

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Ecc 3:18-22

18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath[c]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”

John 6: 67-69

67 So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?”

68 Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that You are the Holy One of God.”

John 4:7-13

7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

 

[Sorn]

The above passage Genesis 3:22 would suggest that Adam did not have eternal life pre fall
The bible says Adam lived a long time after the fall so pre fall there would have been no mad rush to eat of the tree of life.
So while we don't know how long he lived from his creation to his fall, it was most likely not so long that he aged substantially and needed the fruit of the tree of life.

So it would seem he did not have eternal life pre fall but did have access to it for when it was needed.
There is also a possibility the the fruit of the tree required regular ingestion, maybe once a month etc and that doing so would stop aging etc

The final chapters of Revelation 22:2 says the tree of life will be in the new earth, so, (allowing its probably just figurative speech but still) it would seem that once we can eat of it again on a regular basis we live for ever. Though that may not help with accidents etc.

 

[LW97Nils]

I believe yes. Death was never been an intention, I suppose. But I am not sure either.

So it would seem he did not have eternal life pre fall but did have access to it for when it was needed.
There is also a possibility the the fruit of the tree required regular ingestion, maybe once a month etc and that doing so would stop aging etc

The final chapters of Revelation 22:2 says the tree of life will be in the new earth, so, (allowing its probably just figurative speech but still) it would seem that once we can eat of it again on a regular basis we live for ever.

Good point. One could ask tho what happens if one stops eating.
"There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." Isaiah 65:20

This may be about millenial saints (I am not a dispensationalist anymore, but I believe in salvation in the Millenium also). Just my two cents

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Adam is an example of losing enternal life by choosing to sin
If he had not sinned he would not have been blocked from the tree of life which ensures eternal life and therefor would not have died

 

[LW97Nils]

Adam is an example of losing enternal life by choosing to sin
If he had not sinned he would not have been blocked from the tree of life which ensures eternal life and therefor would not have died

Amen!

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

In Orthodox theology, Adam and Eve pre-fall were in an indeterminate state. They weren't immortal because they had not eaten from the Tree of Life, nor were they mortal as they had not eaten from the Tree of Knowledge. In fact, death becomes a mercy from God because we can not sin for eternity.

St. Gregory the Theologian writes, “Yet here too He provides a benefit – namely death, which cuts off sin, so that evil may not be everlasting. Thus His punishment is changed into a mercy.”

With today being the start of Orthodox Lent, please forgive me if I have done anything to offend.

 

[BobRyan]

This issue was raised in another thread that I didn't get a chance to respond to as I went on holidays and it was off topic so thought I would deal with it here and see what you all have to say for yourselves.
I say he didn't as eternal life is imputed to our spirit and if Adam had eternal life he could not have died spiritually. It's also the reason we don't die even though we sin. You can't perish (spiritually) and have eternal life at the same time.

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

What say you?

They had access to the tree of life before they fell.

And Gen 3 says this for their post-fall condition -

22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out with his hand, and take fruit also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the Garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the Garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

So yes they would live forever had they not sinned.

 

[IoanC]

I heave heard that Sts. Adam and Eve were in communion with God, heard Angels sing, enjoyed nature on a 'noetic' level, etc.. Their pre-fall state was pure and perfect, free of any sin, but they did not have the full knowledge of God, the universe and themselves that Christ would later offer through 'theosis'.

 

[BobRyan]

I heave heard that Sts. Adam and Eve were in communion with God, heard Angels sing, enjoyed nature on a 'noetic' level, etc.. Their pre-fall state was pure and perfect, free of any sin, but they did not have the full knowledge of God, the universe and themselves that Christ would later offer through 'theosis'.

They did not know God "as Savior" since they did not need salvation. In fact no part of the Universe no matter how old/ancient the race knew God as "savior" until the Gospel was instituted on Earth.

 

[Clare73]

This issue was raised in another thread that I didn't get a chance to respond to as I went on holidays and it was off topic so thought I would deal with it here and see what you all have to say for yourselves.
I say he didn't as eternal life is imputed to our spirit and if Adam had eternal life he could not have died spiritually. It's also the reason we don't die even though we sin. You can't perish (spiritually) and have eternal life at the same time.
John 3:15 - that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
What say you?

First, there seems to be some confusion regarding the nature and meaning of eternal life.
a) It's not about living forever. Eternal life is God's divine life imparted to the human spirit, and yes, God's divine life is also everlasting.

b) Nor is eternal life about duration of the human spirit's life, which is immortal by nature, with or without God's divine eternal life imparted to it.

c) Spiritual death does not mean death of the immortal human spirit, it means the loss of God's divine life imparted within the immortal human spirit, as in the case of Adam.

d) Though your human spirit is immortal, it can be ruined (not destroyed) by loss of God's divine life, resulting in its eternal damnation.

e) Adam enjoyed God's divine eternal life within his immortal spirit until he rebelled, when God took it from him, the physical death of his body being the proof of the loss of God's divine eternal life within his immortal spirit ("Dying, you shall die." Ge 2:17). . .which loss resulted in condemnation of his immortal spirit, and with which condemnation all Adam's descendants are now born (Ro 5:18).

Secondly, so
a) Adam did have God's divine eternal life within his immortal spirit imparted to him by God, and
b) he did die spiritually, which means he lost God's divine eternal life within his immortal spirit, but his immortal spirit itself did not die,
c) however, his immortal spirit would be ruined (not destroyed) in eternal damnation. . .apart from God's remedy for the horrible mess.

 

[timothyu]

No. He had the option from which he was later removed having chosen another. Other eternal beings had already rebelled. What would be the sense in creating a new being with permanence other than by reproduction? God had already pointed out limitations within the Garden which directly affected lifespan? As man was a work in progress as we saw by the time He took to create Eve, let alone reproduction not yet being a factor, perhaps God was waiting to see which direction man would take before adding the eternity function. Would man choose life or death? Was man smart or stupid, humble or full of himself? Would a smart humble species choose death in favour of quick gain?

 

[Soyeong]

This issue was raised in another thread that I didn't get a chance to respond to as I went on holidays and it was off topic so thought I would deal with it here and see what you all have to say for yourselves.
I say he didn't as eternal life is imputed to our spirit and if Adam had eternal life he could not have died spiritually. It's also the reason we don't die even though we sin. You can't perish (spiritually) and have eternal life at the same time.

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

What say you?

Adam eating from the Tree of Life would have caused him to become immortal, so he did not have eternal life before the Fall, however, eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil did cause Adam to become mortal, so before eating of either tree he was neither immortal nor mortal, but was at a crossroads between the two. In Deuteronomy 30:15-20, the Israelites were at an identical crossroads, where Moses offered them a choice between life and death, life and a blessing if they obey the Torah, or death and a curse if they choose not to obey it, and we also are at am identical crossroads when we are presented with that same Gospel message.

 

[Soyeong]

The above passage Genesis 3:22 would suggest that Adam did not have eternal life pre fall
The bible says Adam lived a long time after the fall so pre fall there would have been no mad rush to eat of the tree of life.
So while we don't know how long he lived from his creation to his fall, it was most likely not so long that he aged substantially and needed the fruit of the tree of life.

So it would seem he did not have eternal life pre fall but did have access to it for when it was needed.
There is also a possibility the the fruit of the tree required regular ingestion, maybe once a month etc and that doing so would stop aging etc

The final chapters of Revelation 22:2 says the tree of life will be in the new earth, so, (allowing its probably just figurative speech but still) it would seem that once we can eat of it again on a regular basis we live for ever. Though that may not help with accidents etc.

Adam was emphatically told to eat, yes, eat from any tree in the Garden except the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and the Tree of Life was in the midst of the Garden, which he was not prohibited from eating until after he had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, so prior to doing that, it was only a matter of time until he would have eaten from the Tree of Life, which was intended for him to do.

 

[Clare73]

Adam eating from the Tree of Life would have caused him to become immortal, so he did not have eternal life before the Fall, however, eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil did cause Adam to become mortal, so before eating of either tree he was neither immortal nor mortal, but was at a crossroads between the two. In Deuteronomy 30:15-20, the Israelites were at an identical crossroads, where Moses offered them a choice between life and death, life and a blessing if they obey the Torah, or death and a curse if they choose not to obey it, and we also are at am identical crossroads when we are presented with that same Gospel message.

Eternal life and immortality, both involving the human spirit, are not themselves related.
Eternal life is God's divine life within the immortal human spirit, while
immortality is the length of life (never ending) of the immortal human spirit itself.
See post #13.

 

[Clare73]

No. He had the option from which he was later removed having chosen another. Other eternal beings had already rebelled. What would be the sense in creating a new being with permanence other than by reproduction? God had already pointed out limitations within the Garden which directly affected lifespan? As man was a work in progress as we saw by the time He took to create Eve, let alone reproduction not yet being a factor, perhaps God was waiting to see which direction man would take before adding the eternity function. Would man choose life or death? Was man smart or stupid, humble or full of himself? Would a smart humble species choose death in favour of quick gain?

Poor God. . .once he creates it, it becomes a god autonomous in itself, and he doesn't know anything until it happens.

 

[timothyu]

Poor God, once he creates it, it becomes a god autonomous in itself, and he doesn't know anything until it happens.

When you give man free will the decision becomes man's, not God's. But I am sure God had it covered either way.

 

[sawdust]

Adam is an example of losing enternal life by choosing to sin
If he had not sinned he would not have been blocked from the tree of life which ensures eternal life and therefor would not have died

Again it fails to answer .. we sin and don't die. Adam sinned and died. Why? What's the difference?