Did Adam have Eternal Life Pre-Fall?

[Clare73]

I'm not going to follow you into those weeds.

No need to go into the weeds. . .

"The body without the spirit is dead," (Jas 2:26)
doesn't require going into the weeds to understand that we are born with our immortal human spirits.

 

[GenemZ]

No need to go into the weeds. . .

"The body without the spirit is dead," (Jas 2:26)
doesn't require going into the weeds to understand that we are born with our immortal human spirits.

What is the spirit of discord?

What is the meaning to 'she was filled with team spirit?'

He was fulfilling the spirit of the law.

When someone is mean spirited?


Context is a must.

To insist upon one meaning only is not very smart.

 

[Clare73]

What is the spirit of discord?

What is the meaning to 'she was filled with team spirit?'

He was fulfilling the spirit of the law.

There is no such thing as the "spirit of the law" in the NT.
There is "the Spirit" (Holy Spirit) and there is "the letter" (written code).
The Spirit is the letter (law).

When someone is mean spirited?
Context is a must.

Indeed!

To insist upon one meaning only is not very smart.

And in the context of the life of the human body, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know what is meant by "spirit."

 

[GenemZ]

There is no such thing as the "spirit of the law" in the NT.
There is "the Spirit" (Holy Spirit) and their is "the letter" (the written code).
The Spirit is the letter (law).

Indeed!

And in the context of the life of the human body, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know what is meant by "spirit."

Its not very smart when distinctions become blurred when wishing to not differentiate the human spirit that is begotten by the Holy Spirit, and whatever it is you keep throwing into the gears like a wrench.

Jesus said that men need to be 'born again." If they already had the kind of spirit you speak of? Jesus would have been called out by Nicodemus.

 

[Mark Quayle]

OT saints had the Spirit placed upon them to fill them with enabling ability for feats their natural abilities could not achieve. Like Samson as a mighty warrior, and the people God called to build the tabernacle in the wilderness in the days of Moses.

The Spirit was not given to them to transform them into the image of Christ as the gift the church has been given.

OT saints did not have the indwelling Spirit taking up permanent residence inside a believer as to produce in faithful believers the following:

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory,
are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor 3:18​

grace and peace ................................

The Spirit of God does as it pleases (John 3). It is not bound by our constructions; it does not answer to form. Man, on the other hand, does answer to form. NOBODY —at least in my view, (and Scripture, OT and NT, is replete with references to man's enmity with God)— to include post-fall Adam, escapes being 'natural man', 'sinful heart', etc, and CANNOT have salvific faith in God, until the Spirit of God enables him.

For the last 2000 years or so, we have been given the notion of the 'Indwelling of the Spirit of God'. I don't really doubt that it was the same in the OT, though it may not have been understood the same way. But the Elect, old and new, are so by God's choice and God's gift of the regenerating Spirit of God. They were not abandoned. God completes everything he sets out to do.

 

[GenemZ]

The Spirit of God does as it pleases (John 3). It is not bound by our constructions; it does not answer to form. Man, on the other hand, does answer to form. NOBODY —at least in my view, and Scripture, OT and NT, is replete with references to man's enmity with God— to include post-fall Adam, escapes being 'natural man', 'sinful heart', etc, and CANNOT have salvific faith in God, until the Spirit of God enables him.

For the last 2000 years or so, we have been given the notion of the 'Indwelling of the Spirit of God'. I don't really doubt that it was the same in the OT, though it may not have been understood the same way. But the Elect, old and new, are so by God's choice and God's gift of the regenerating Spirit of God. They were not abandoned. God completes everything he sets out to do.

God gave us the Word of God so we can know "his thinking."

Study it enough under good teachers and you will be able to begin thinking with the "mind of Christ. We have been given the mind of Christ......

The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Cor 2:15-16

 

[Mark Quayle]

God gave us the Word of God so we can know "his thinking."

Study it enough under good teachers and you will be able to begin thinking with the "mind of Christ. We have been given the mind of Christ......

The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Cor 2:15-16

Therefore, your use of Scripture and not mine? Ok. Enjoy.

 

[GenemZ]

Therefore, your use of Scripture and not mine? Ok. Enjoy.

Not all of us are going to be right......

And, not all of us are simultaneously on the same maturity level.

Those who disagree today may find themselves able to understand better and agree tomorrow.

We all need correction from time to time. I can vouch for that.

 

[Diamond72]

Why don't we die when we sin?

We start to die as soon as we sin. It just takes time to die.

 

[Diamond72]

I say he didn't as eternal life is imputed to our spirit and if Adam had eternal life he could not have died spiritually.

King Mahabali was said to have lived for 36,000 years. There is no evidence that anyone ever lived more than 1,000 years. Crocodiles and Turtles were dinosaurs and they can live long lives. The longer they live the bigger they get. But no evidence for anything over 1000 years. People have never gotten any bigger. They all look like they are in their prime of life around 30. So it appears that aging is a disease that science believes can be cured so people can go back to living 1000 years again.

Before Adam and Eve, 6,000 years ago, people were hunter-gathers and did not live in cities. Some cities were campsites before they became permanent settlements. They came up out of Africa around 40 or 45,000 years ago. This was when they had fishing hooks and sowing needles made out of bone. So they could fish for food and live near the water. They could make clothing to stay warm. God teaches Adam and Eve how to make warmer clothing from animal skins for colder climates, so that man could move even further north.

I studied every fossil I could find. They all died from being hunted down and killed like an animal. They had a crushed skull, arrowhead, or spear in them. They did not all die a fast death, they all died at the age of 30. They were examined as a murder victim and then turned over to science to study. In America, the Native American Indians fight for the remains, but lose in court because the DNA is not related to them.

Isaiah 65 20 “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

However, the skeletons of the Hobbit People (Homo floresiensis) that have been discovered show some features that are typically associated with aging in humans, such as worn teeth and arthritic joints. These features have led some researchers to suggest that Homo floresiensis may have experienced accelerated aging, although this idea is controversial and remains a subject of debate among scientists.

 

[Clare73]

Its not very smart when distinctions become blurred when wishing to not differentiate the human spirit that is begotten by the Holy Spirit,

Previously addressed; viz, "The body without the spirit is dead." (Jas 2:26)
There is no living human body without the immortal human spirit.
Therefore, the human spirit is necessarily "begotten" from the beginning.
It's not rocket science.

Jesus said that men need to be 'born again." If they already had the kind of spirit you speak of? Jesus would have been called out by Nicodemus.

Previously addressed; viz, Jesus said they need to be "born from above," to have God's divine eternal life (from above) imparted to their immortal human spirit, without which immortal human spirit their human body would not even be alive (Jas 2:26).

 

[GenemZ]

We start to die as soon as we sin. It just takes time to die.

What about David's infant son who died before he could even sin?

 

[Cassian]

I disagree with anything and anyone who disagrees with Scripture.
The Greek definition of the word:
predestinate (proorizo) = pro (beforehand), horizo (to determine, mark out definitely) - to foreordain, to mark out beforehand, to determine before,
and the text of Ro 8:29-30 are unequivocal and clear.
My job is to believe them, not argue against them.

You mean disagree with your personal interpretation of scripture. which is why there are so many self-imposed interpretations to scripture.
Especially when scripture plainly disagrees with those who hold this authority, denying the Authority of the Holy Spirit as clearly stated in scripture.

I have no disagreement with either

Except that you do not apply them. You are imposing your personal authority over that of the Holy Spirit, the Church that Christ established.
Of course, you surely are not alone by any means. Untold numbers have done and claimed the same thing for 500 years and have yet to establish and kind of Truth.

Actually, Paul had it before both of them (Ro 8:29, Ro 8:30, Eph 1:5, Eph 1:11). Roman and Ephesians are Scriptural

Only according to your authority. Just like those below who claimed their interpretation was scriptural as well.
Arianism, Nestorianism, Monotheletism, Universalism, Millenarianism, Pelagianism, Original Sin and many others. So you are not the only one who claimed their authority over scripture but were all declared heretical.

God bless and have mercy.

​

 

[GenemZ]

Previously addressed; viz, "The body without the spirit is dead." (Jas 2:26)
There is no living human body without the immortal human spirit.

Again you are failing to differentiate between what 'spirit' means in James 2:26, and what Jesus told Nicodemus about when being born again we are receiving a human spirit. They are not one and the same 'spirit' as you keep imposing in meaning.

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless
they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives
birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"

John 3:5-7​

Another word often not differentiated properly is the word 'water.'
Many wrongly assume Jesus spoke concerning water baptism.

Yet, Jesus was speaking of the process of being born.
So, water?
Before a woman is about to deliver she will first break water.

See how words that are having more than one meaning can get in the way of some people's thinking?

​

"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. "


A person without that type of spirit Jesus spoke of?
Is actually spiritually dead!
Needing to be born again!
Needing to have a human spirit given to him!


"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. "

grace and peace .............

 

[Clare73]

You mean disagree with your personal interpretation of scripture. which is why there are so many self-imposed interpretations to scripture.
Especially when scripture plainly disagrees with those who hold this authority, denying the Authority of the Holy Spirit as clearly stated in scripture.

I note the failure to deal with the Biblical demonstration itself in my post, without which your assertion does not have merit.

Except that you do not apply them. You are imposing your personal authority over that of the Holy Spirit,

You have the authority of the word of God written confused with Biblical demonstration of the word of God written, which Biblical demonstration you do not address, thereby leaving your assertion without merit.

the Church that Christ established.
Of course, you surely are not alone by any means. Untold numbers have done and claimed the same thing for 500 years and have yet to establish and kind of Truth.

Humans don't establish Truth, the word of God written establishes Truth.

Only according to your authority.

According to the authority of the word of God written, its meaning being the meaning of its words in Greek, and understood in the context and light of the whole NT, which Biblical demonstration you have yet to demonstrate is incorrect, thereby rendering your assertions without merit.

Just like those below who claimed their interpretation was scriptural as well.
Arianism, Nestorianism, Monotheletism, Universalism, Millenarianism, Pelagianism, Original Sin and many others. So you are not the only one who claimed their authority over scripture but were all declared heretical.

Hopefully, declared heretical based on Biblical demonstration of their error, which you have yet to do of my Biblical demonstration.

God bless and have mercy.

Indeed!

 

[Clare73]

Again you are failing to differentiate between what 'spirit' means in James 2:26, and what Jesus told Nicodemus about when being born again we are receiving a human spirit. They are not one and the same 'spirit' as you keep imposing in meaning.

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless
they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives
birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"
John 3:5-7​

Another word often not differentiated properly is the word 'water.'
Many wrongly assume Jesus spoke concerning water baptism.
Yet, Jesus was speaking of the process of being born.
So, water?
Before a woman is about to deliver she will first break water.
See how words that are having more than one meaning can get in the way of some people's thinking?

​

"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. "

A person without that type of spirit Jesus spoke of?
Is actually spiritually dead!
Needing to be born again!
Needing to have a human spirit given to him!

"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. "

grace and peace .............

Previously addressed. . .

 

[timothyu]

Jesus said they need to be "born from above,"

Scales removed

 

[Clare73]

What about David's infant son who died before he could even sin?

We are born condemned (Ro 5:18),
enemies of God (Ro 5:10),
by nature (with which we are born), objects of wrath (Eph 2:3),
from which wrath Jesus saves (Ro 5:9)
through grace by faith (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[sawdust]

King Mahabali was said to have lived for 36,000 years. There is no evidence that anyone ever lived more than 1,000 years. Crocodiles and Turtles were dinosaurs and they can live long lives. The longer they live the bigger they get. But no evidence for anything over 1000 years. People have never gotten any bigger. They all look like they are in their prime of life around 30. So it appears that aging is a disease that science believes can be cured so people can go back to living 1000 years again.

Before Adam and Eve, 6,000 years ago, people were hunter-gathers and did not live in cities. Some cities were campsites before they became permanent settlements. They came up out of Africa around 40 or 45,000 years ago. This was when they had fishing hooks and sowing needles made out of bone. So they could fish for food and live near the water. They could make clothing to stay warm. God teaches Adam and Eve how to make warmer clothing from animal skins for colder climates, so that man could move even further north.

I studied every fossil I could find. They all died from being hunted down and killed like an animal. They had a crushed skull, arrowhead, or spear in them. They did not all die a fast death, they all died at the age of 30. They were examined as a murder victim and then turned over to science to study. In America, the Native American Indians fight for the remains, but lose in court because the DNA is not related to them.

Isaiah 65 20 “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

However, the skeletons of the Hobbit People (Homo floresiensis) that have been discovered show some features that are typically associated with aging in humans, such as worn teeth and arthritic joints. These features have led some researchers to suggest that Homo floresiensis may have experienced accelerated aging, although this idea is controversial and remains a subject of debate among scientists.

It's interesting what you have said here but it is only discussing physical death. It doesn't address spiritual death which, is what this thread is essentially about.

 

[sawdust]

You mean disagree with your personal interpretation of scripture. which is why there are so many self-imposed interpretations to scripture.

Here is something we can agree on, it's why God appointed pastor/teachers.