GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

[Lulav]

Paul is not the author, and neither is John, James, Jude, or Peter, or Moses, or any other of the Biblical writers: God is. It doesn’t matter if Paul put pen to paper or if John was the one to do so, God was the author of the words they wrote.

So you believe every word we have in the Bible God dictated to his people to write down? So he had ghost writers?

What do you make of this from a very well known Prophet AND Priest.

Jeremiah

When Paul wrote his letter to Timothy declaring the scriptures to be the inspiration of God, the New Testament bible was non-existent. Paul’s letters then can surely not be included in his classification of the scriptures. In any case, Paul’s view of the Old Testament contradicts that of Jeremiah.

Jeremiah insists the scribes tampered with the bible. He asks: “How can you say, ‘We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,’ when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?” (Jeremiah 8:8).

 

[daq]

If the Pescatarians or Vegetarians were using a reasoning that would apply to red meat as well, then I don't think it would matter.

The scripture teaches the difference by calling some creatures living souls. Please hear what I said: my Elohim does not make one weaker living soul just to become food to be consumed by a greater more powerful living soul. The great sea creatures of Genesis 1:21 are called living souls.

Everything we eat ends up in the sewer, not the heart. That's the reasoning.

Nope, the Word of Elohim is life-giving spiritual food: therefore outside writings, and especially books for sale for a profit, may be considered "food sacrificed to idols", particularly the idol of mammon or "filthy lucre". Be careful what you spend your hard earned all-seeing-eye illuminati greenback bucks on, lol.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug Brents said:
It doesn’t matter about the Synagogue.




Assembly houses date back to the time of the return from the Babylonian exile. They are used for many things but the reading of the law was the most prominent. A place for reading of Torah and discussing Torah, just as Jesus did while on earth.

This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.​

Synagogues in the Galilee:

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.​

​

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.​

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?​

These are all NT references, or information from secular histories. Show me in the Law or Prophets where synagogues are instructed or commanded.

They date back to 465-423 bce. This assembly was not just for religious study but also a judicial place of meeting, all based on the Torah.

Again, this comes from secular history.

Are you speaking of the Book of the Acts or the Gospels? If you are referring to the Jerusalem degree then it is definitely after the crucifixion and resurrection.

You referenced James saying that the Torah was read in the synagogue every sabbath from generations of old. The Jews who do not believe that Jesus is the Christ still do this today, and have since the synagogues were first established. But that has no bearing on whether or not Christians are commanded to keep the sabbath.

Then how do you know of anything that went on then? Your NT is written by Jewish writers, except for maybe Luke, and in Lukes book of the Acts we see James saying that there were thousands of thousands of Jewish believers at the time and all were zealous for the laws of God.

How can the Gentiles have a New covenant when they dismiss the old?

There were indeed thousands of Jews who believed in Jesus, and when they left Jerusalem after Pentecost they took the Gospel with them to the furthest reaches of the world.

By the way, it is not “MY New Testament”, it is God’s Will and Testament to man. But you are correct that the NT was written entirely with Apostolic (all of whom were Jews) blessing and oversight (although as you point out, doctor Luke may have been a Gentile).

The New Covenant is the first that is relevant to Gentiles, but it is useful to refer to it as New so as not to confuse it with the Old that was made obsolete in Christ. The New Covenant includes in it all of the commands and mandates that are required of us under the New Covenant, including: don’t murder, don’t hate, don’t lie, don’t commit adultery, etc. but it does not include the sabbath, physical circumcision, animal sacrifices, and some other things. But the Old Covenant remains relevant to everyone: as history, because it contains the prophecies that were fulfilled in Christ, because it contains the Law from which we know what sin is, and because it gives us some insight into the character and mind of God, among other reasons.

 

[Leaf473]

The scripture teaches the difference by calling some creatures living souls. Please hear what I said: my Elohim does not make one weaker living soul just to become food to be consumed by a greater more powerful living soul. The great sea creatures of Genesis 1:21 are called living souls.



Nope, the Word of Elohim is life-giving spiritual food: therefore outside writings, and especially books for sale for a profit, may be considered "food sacrificed to idols", particularly the idol of mammon or "filthy lucre". Be careful what you spend your hard earned all-seeing-eye illuminati greenback bucks on, lol.

Essentially non sequiturs, as far as I can tell. But I do hear what you're saying, reading between the lines

 

[daq]

Essentially non sequiturs, as far as I can tell. But I do hear what you're saying, reading between the lines

That second "non-sequitur" is key to understanding Peter's vision which also contains the same type of contextual background focus found in the Mark passage, (handwashing was critical to the Pharisees for reasons such as in case you accidentally touched something that a gentile might have touched and supposedly be made unclean, (according to the Pharisees)). Elohim teaches Peter and the brethren, (all of them Yhudim), to accept and partake (eat) of the testimony of a righteous gentile, (Cornelius).

Acts 10:14-20 KJV
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

This is the meaning of the vision:

Acts 10:27-29 KJV
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

In the next chapter, in Acts 11:1-17, Peter returns to the brethren and shares his vision and the testimony of Cornelius with them. They listen, they partake in (consume) the testimony of Cornelius, and they rejoice and glorify Elohim for having granted unto the nations repentance unto life, (Acts 11:18).

It is actually the whole argument about what the natural man gets to feed into his beloved belly which is the real non-sequitur here.

 

[Lulav]

These are all NT references, or information from secular histories.

Which one of these are you calling secular histories? Gospels from John, Luke and Mark?

This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Jn 6:59​

​

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. -Lk 4:14​

​

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. Lk 4:16​

​

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Mk 6:2​

Yes , those above are from the NT, showing you how it was important and a part of Jesus' life to go to the synagogue on Sabbath, to teach and read Torah.

Show me in the Law or Prophets where synagogues are instructed or commanded.

I'm sorry, I apologize, I forgot I was addressing someone who appears to not be familiar with the Law or Prophets. If you were my reference to the return from exile would have been a tip-off.

A read through Nehemiah and Ezra might answer the question for you. The word 'synagogue' means a place of Assembly, just like 'Church' does. Just like when you go to church you are assembling together for worship, the reading of scripture, prayer etc. It is a Greek word meaning a gathering place, an assembly.
After return from exile and before they could rebuild the temple Ezra gathered the people (Assembly) and read the Torah to them. This is considered by some to be the beginning of the synagogue.

In James 2:2 they did not translate it as synagogue as should have been but instead used 'assembly'.

Here's a reference from the Psalms

PS 74:8 They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.

Again, this comes from secular history.

The Book of Ezra and the Psalms are not secular history.

You referenced James saying that the Torah was read in the synagogue every sabbath from generations of old. The Jews who do not believe that Jesus is the Christ still do this today, and have since the synagogues were first established. But that has no bearing on whether or not Christians are commanded to keep the sabbath.

To keep the day the LORD ordained, established, consecrated and made HOLY or to keep a day that is a Tradition of man. Hmm, to me it's a no-brainer. It's sad that that kind of viewpoint is still rampant today. Same as the Christ-killers of old let's not do anything like the Jews do. Those Jews include, Matthew, Peter, John, Nathaniel, James, and especially Jesus himself.
That was the place to go to learn about Torah and the Prophets. Even before Messiah came there were Gentiles in the synagogues, they were called God-fearers, Cornelius was one, remember him?

There were indeed thousands of Jews who believed in Jesus, and when they left Jerusalem after Pentecost they took the Gospel with them to the furthest reaches of the world.

Then why put emphasis on the Jews who don't believe? Guess what, today there are also thousands of Jews who believe the Jesus was the promised Messiah, even Jewish Rabbis.

By the way, it is not “MY New Testament”, it is God’s Will and Testament to man. But you are correct that the NT was written entirely with Apostolic (all of whom were Jews) blessing and oversight (although as you point out, doctor Luke may have been a Gentile).

You do realize you have contradicted yourself?

Doug Brents said:​

​

The New Covenant was made with Judah and Israel, but they, for the most part, rejected it.​

What you should add to that is that many were killed off that believed. Kinda reverse Inquisition.

 

[Leaf473]

That second "non-sequitur" is key to understanding Peter's vision which also contains the same type of contextual background focus found in the Mark passage, (handwashing was critical to the Pharisees for reasons such as in case you accidentally touched something that a gentile might have touched and supposedly be made unclean, (according to the Pharisees)). Elohim teaches Peter and the brethren, (all of them Yhudim), to accept and partake (eat) of the testimony of a righteous gentile, (Cornelius).

Acts 10:14-20 KJV
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

This is the meaning of the vision:

Acts 10:27-29 KJV
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

In the next chapter, in Acts 11:1-17, Peter returns to the brethren and shares his vision and the testimony of Cornelius with them. They listen, they partake in (consume) the testimony of Cornelius, and they rejoice and glorify Elohim for having granted unto the nations repentance unto life, (Acts 11:18).

It is actually the whole argument about what the natural man gets to feed into his beloved belly which is the real non-sequitur here.

If they're not non sequiturs, that's great!

Then how about taking it one step at a time:
If Pescatarians or Vegetarians are having a discussion, and someone says that everything we eat ends up in the sewer, not our heart, how would that not also apply to red meat?

I turned, and my heart sought to know and to search out, and to seek wisdom and the scheme of things.
Ecclesiastes 7

 

[Doug Brents]

Which one of these are you calling secular histories? Gospels from John, Luke and Mark?

The dates you added about when the synagogues began to be used is secular. I asked for OT references to the synagogues.

This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Jn 6:59​

​

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. -Lk 4:14​

​

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. Lk 4:16​

​

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Mk 6:2​

Yes , those above are from the NT, showing you how it was important and a part of Jesus' life to go to the synagogue on Sabbath, to teach and read Torah.

Yes, these are references to Jesus, before His death and so still subject to the OC,visiting and teaching in the synagogue on sabbath.

Let me ask you, if you wanted to find a bunch of people who were already in a mindset to learn about God, where and when would you go today? Answer: just about any church building on a Sunday morning.

I'm sorry, I apologize, I forgot I was addressing someone who appears to not be familiar with the Law or Prophets. If you were my reference to the return from exile would have been a tip-off.

A read through Nehemiah and Ezra might answer the question for you. The word 'synagogue' means a place of Assembly, just like 'Church' does.

Umm, NO. Church comes from the word Ecclesia, Greek Ekklēsia, (“gathering of those summoned”). It is the ones who have been called out of the lost. It has absolutely nothing to do with the building in which they choose to meet.

You do realize you have contradicted yourself?

Doug Brents said:​

​

The New Covenant was made with Judah and Israel, but they, for the most part, rejected it.​

What you should add to that is that many were killed off that believed. Kinda reverse Inquisition.

No contradiction there at all. Yes, many Jews believed, and do today, (I have worshipped with the Messianic Jewish Congregation here in Atlanta). And yes, many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles, who believed were martyred for their faith, many still are today.

But my comment, which you have so cleverly taken out of context, was referring to that first generation of Jews after Jesus’ death. Many did believe, but most rejected Him, and so the Gospel was sent to the Gentiles, and now we all get to enjoy the riches of God’s grace.

 

[daq]

Then how about taking it one step at a time:
If Pescatarians or Vegetarians are having a discussion, and someone says that everything we eat ends up in the sewer, not our heart, how would that not also apply to red meat?

If you are listening into such a conversation, and you already know the people you are listening to are either pescatarians or vegetarians, then you know they are not talking about red meat because you know they do not eat red meat.

Also, has anyone actually proven which understanding is the correct one in Mark 7:19? Or do you suppose most just think they get to pick whichever translation they prefer to incorporate in their doctrine?

Marl 7:19 KJV
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Mark 7:19 ASV
19 because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said, making all meats clean.

I can understand how what goes out the draught is purged: but I sure would like to hear someone explain how food going out the draught is made clean through that process, (wait a minute, maybe I don't want to hear that after all, lol). Please note the portion in italics in the ASV version above: that means it is not in the Greek text but added by the translator to help you better understand (their interpretation of) the text. Notice also how the ASV changes the position of the question mark. This makes the final comment a statement and is why they get away with inserting the portion in italics. Generally I like the ASV but this is very bad form in this case.

 

[Lulav]

But that has no bearing on whether or not Christians are commanded to keep the sabbath.

Ok, you want to ignore all the detailed posts I've made so let's get to the basic question.

Show me where GOD or Messiah commanded that the Sabbath was no longer on the last day of the week.

And since this involves one of the ten commandments GOD himself carved in stone, TWICE, show me a place where it says these were chipped out and replaced with Sun Day.

 

[Doug Brents]

Ok, you want to ignore all the detailed posts I've made so let's get to the basic question.

Show me where GOD or Messiah commanded that the Sabbath was no longer on the last day of the week.

And since this involves one of the ten commandments GOD himself carved in stone, TWICE, show me a place where it says these were chipped out and replaced with Sun Day.

I am not talking about Sunday. I have never even mentioned that the 7th day is not the sabbath. You are reading your own bias into what I have said.

You continually mention that the “10 Commandments were carved by the finger of God” as if that means more than His verbal command, or any of the other ways He has communicated His will. Nothing could be further from the truth. The 10 Commandments were just the synopsis of the rest of the laws, and was further condensed by Jesus into “Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.”

What I have said all along is that the New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant (Heb 8:13), and the New Covenant does not have any command to keep the sabbath. As a matter of fact, there are several passages that point out (as already posted) that the sabbath is specifically excluded in the New Covenant.

Also, we are told that Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath, the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath, and that Jesus is now our sabbath rest (ending our working to bring about or insure our salvation). All of that being fact, taken directly from Scripture, there is no question in my mind that the sabbath is no longer a commandment in the New Covenant.

Now, you are welcome to keep the sabbath as you see fit, and God will honor you in your choice to do so as long as you are doing it for Him and not to puff yourself us and say, “Look how much more noble I am. I keep the sabbath.” But I will honor all days as equal, and Honor God in all things, and He will honor me because I do it for His glory (Heb 14:1-9).

 

[Lulav]

Correct, the sabbath is not a stand alone commandment. It is part of the whole of the OT that was canceled by Christ at the cross.

Please explain how you 'cancel' a day thousands of years ago when the LORD GOD finished creation?

In Christ none of these OT commands have any power, significance, or authority.

To you maybe but I would be trembling if I were to say that, especially since you don't even see what kind of dark light saying things like that shines on the first commandment:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you <strike>out of the land of Egypt</strike>, out of the house of bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

So how many other gods are you worshiping?

Yes, these are references to Jesus, before His death and so still subject to the OC,visiting and teaching in the synagogue on sabbath.

So he taught how to walk in Torah to his people only to turn around and say, 'Hey, it was all for nothing, you can go and do all those things I told you to do and not to do, that you've been doing for 1000's of years and just lean on my obedience.'

You continually mention that the “10 Commandments were carved by the finger of God” as if that means more than His verbal command, or any of the other ways He has communicated His will. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If it didn't then why didn't he just have Moses write them down on parchment like the rest? These were but in the Ark and called the ark of the Testimony. It is a testimony of the standard HIS PEOPLE are held to.

The 10 Commandments were just the synopsis of the rest of the laws, and was further condensed by Jesus into “Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.”

Another misunderstanding. Read carefully:

37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”​

What I have said all along is that the New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant (Heb 8:13), and the New Covenant does not have any command to keep the sabbath. As a matter of fact, there are several passages that point out (as already posted) that the sabbath is specifically excluded in the New Covenant.

Why would it be excluded? have you ever asked yourself that? Remembering the one day a week the LORD GOD set apart and made HOLY? Marking his day weekly to honor that He is the ONE TRUE CREATOR GOD. When you forget that or change it (laws and times) that diminishes him in your eyes and others.

Also, we are told that Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath, the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath, and that Jesus is now our sabbath rest (ending our working to bring about or insure our salvation). All of that being fact, taken directly from Scripture, there is no question in my mind that the sabbath is no longer a commandment in the New Covenant.

The Sabbath was made for man by his CREATOR because he knew how his Creation worked since he was the originator of it. If you read the commandment carefully you will see that it's not just for man to rest but also the animals, and those who live among you. It is very similar to what Israel experience in the wilderness, it's called dependence and faith in GOD. This can be seen in the story of the manna, which fed them daily and gave a double portion on the 6th day in preparation for the seventh day rest.

Not working on the seventh day shows two things,
1. That to be one of GOD's people you need to trust in him for your health and welfare, that he would provide for you even if you didn't work 7 days a week.
2. It shows the world who you belong to, the True CREATOR, the GOD of ABRAHAM, ISAAC and JACOB.

Not to mention the blessings that come from upholding the Creator on the seventh day.

Now, you are welcome to keep the sabbath as you see fit, and God will honor you in your choice to do so as long as you are doing it for Him and not to puff yourself us and say, “Look how much more noble I am. I keep the sabbath.”

Gee, thank you for your permission to Honor My LORD by keeping his commandments which shows I love HIM.

But I will honor all days as equal, and Honor God in all things,

You can't do both, they contradict each other.

and He will honor me because I do it for His glory (Heb 14:1-9).

There's no witness to that by not holding to the Seventh day rest.


I will leave you with some words from the one you say you obey, but ......

​

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.​

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.​

​

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;​

​

but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

​

20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.​

​

Remember, it's not just about you but others who may be misled to not follow the commandments because you taught them NOT to.

 

[Doug Brents]

Please explain how you 'cancel' a day thousands of years ago when the LORD GOD finished creation?

If you cannot read English any better than that… smh.
I did not say the day was cancelled. I said the OT, which contains the command to keep the sabbath, was canceled.

To you maybe but I would be trembling if I were to say that, especially since you don't even see what kind of dark light saying things like that shines on the first commandment:

So how many other gods are you worshiping?

Again, an ignorant statement based on your bias for keeping the Old Law, and failure to read the New Testament commands. The command to worship God alone is included in the NT (John 4:23, Phil 2:11).

I worship the only God worthy of worship and honor and glory, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit!

Why would it be excluded? have you ever asked yourself that? Remembering the one day a week the LORD GOD set apart and made HOLY?

That has already been answered: Jesus is our sabbath rest now. We don’t need to rest from our labors on a particular day, because we now rest continuously in Jesus.

Marking his day weekly to honor that He is the ONE TRUE CREATOR GOD. When you forget that or change it (laws and times) that diminishes him in your eyes and others.

We are no longer commanded to honor one day weekly. We are commanded to honor God (Jesus) weekly. God is not diminished in my eyes (or in anyone’s that I know) because we don’t keep sabbath. He is exalted because He died for my sins and saved my soul!

The Sabbath was made for man by his CREATOR because he knew how his Creation worked since he was the originator of it. If you read the commandment carefully you will see that it's not just for man to rest but also the animals, and those who live among you. It is very similar to what Israel experience in the wilderness, it's called dependence and faith in GOD.

And we are now sustained by the blood of the Lamb. In Him we have rest and are provided for. He is our “manna”, He is our “water” in the desert.

Gee, thank you for your permission to Honor My LORD by keeping his commandments which shows I love HIM.

It is a shame that you cannot understand the importance of what God (not I) is saying here.

You can't do both, they contradict each other.

You deny the explicit statement of Scripture?
Those aren’t my words; they are God’s direct command.

There's no witness to that by not holding to the Seventh day rest.

There is no witness that you want to recognize. But you are not God, and He says that He gives honor to the one who holds all days equal just as He gives honor to the one who holds one day greater that the others.

I will leave you with some words from the one you say you obey, but ......

​

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.​

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.​

​

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;​

​

but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

​

20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.​

​

Remember, it's not just about you but others who may be misled to not follow the commandments because you taught them NOT to.

The key word, which you actually highlighted, is, “‘till all is fulfilled.” All of the Law has been fulfilled, in Christ. That is precisely what Jesus said he came to do; to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. When Christ died, He had perfectly kept the Law, and fulfilled ALL of the prophecies from the Prophets concerning Him. This, this statement that the Law and the Prophets would not pass away UNTILL all had been fulfilled was accomplished, and the Law and Prophets could, at that time, pass away.

 

[Lulav]

If you cannot read English any better than that… smh.
I did not say the day was cancelled. I said the OT, which contains the command to keep the sabbath, was canceled.

I would have to say that you are the one who is reading comprehension challenged.
As you just said here, the OT which contains the command to keep the Sabbath was cancelled. So maybe my question should have been who gave the authority to 'cancel' Gods holy word? Does that mean that Jesus is cancelled also because many of the writings in the OT (including the ones not yet fulfilled) are about Him?

Another question, how do you 'cancel' the 39 books of the OT without cancelling out the story of Creation and the first Sabbath? and of course the giving of his special people to keep it holy in honor of Him?

Again, an ignorant statement based on your bias for keeping the Old Law, and failure to read the New Testament commands.

First you say I can't read comprehensively then you say I'm ignorant of what it says in the Bible, and I've got a bias to keep the Laws of my GOD () is that all you've got?

The command to worship God alone is included in the NT (John 4:23, Phil 2:11).

It says nothing about worshiping him alone, maybe you should go read it again.

I worship the only God worthy of worship and honor and glory, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit!

So then what you previously said obviously isn't true.
Doug Brents said: "I said the OT, which contains the command to keep the sabbath, was canceled."

That has already been answered: Jesus is our sabbath rest now. We don’t need to rest from our labors on a particular day, because we now rest continuously in Jesus.

I see you make it all about you when it's all about God the Father and the Son.
Since you only give credence to the NT, how do you make this fit?

John 1- 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

2 The same was in the beginning with God.​

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.​

So we see here that Jesus (the Word) In the beginning (creation) was with God. It states twice that it was 'In the beginning.'
ALL things were made by Jesus with God in the Beginning.
This includes the heavens, the earth, the sun, moon, stars, plants, trees, fish, birds, beasts mankind AND the Seventh day which He (Jesus) proclaimed to be the Sabbath rest from Creation.
Since Adam had already been created he too knew it was a special day set aside in HONOR of his CREATOR.

We are no longer commanded to honor one day weekly.

Sure, if you wipe out all of creation, the laws and the prophets, but then Jesus stated emphatically that he did not come to set aside the Commandments or the Prophets.

We are commanded to honor God (Jesus) weekly.

Please give words from Jesus that we are to do so.

God is not diminished in my eyes (or in anyone’s that I know) because we don’t keep sabbath. He is exalted because He died for my sins and saved my soul!

Ok, someone watching you, observing how you live, how would they know which god you worship?

And we are now sustained by the blood of the Lamb. In Him we have rest and are provided for. He is our “manna”, He is our “water” in the desert.

• Again, it's all about you, but what about HIM?
• What are you resting from? Your creation?
• He can't be your manna or your water in the desert, that was all OT, remember? that was cancelled.

Wither you realize it or not you are also cancelling what Jesus said while on earth.

You say you keep the two commandments he gave but that is not what he said.
He said that Loving the Lord with all your heart, all your mind and all your strength was the greatest, not 'only'
and the second was to love your neighbor as yourself.

But those are the two greatest , Why? because all the other commandments and the Prophets 'hang' off them, so they are all included, not Cancelled.

Did you study my chart? The 'Law of Love'

It is a shame that you cannot understand the importance of what God (not I) is saying here.

Saying where?

You deny the explicit statement of Scripture?
Those aren’t my words; they are God’s direct command.

Which words are you referring to?

There is no witness that you want to recognize. But you are not God, and He says that He gives honor to the one who holds all days equal just as He gives honor to the one who holds one day greater that the others.

He does? Where?

The key word, which you actually highlighted, is, “‘till all is fulfilled.” All of the Law has been fulfilled, in Christ.

I highlighted it because it still hasn't been, and part of that is until heaven and earth pass away, which last time I looked, hasn't happened yet. And he was speaking of things pertaining to him which means even if you take it the wrong was as abolishing because he did it, doesn't work because one male person cannot do all the Torah.

That is precisely what Jesus said he came to do; to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. When Christ died, He had perfectly kept the Law, and fulfilled ALL of the prophecies from the Prophets concerning Him.

Nope, hasn't all happened yet. You need to understand the meaning of 'fulfill' it doesn't mean to do it for you so you don't have to. It means to make the meaning of the prophecies full in understanding. Even his disciples did not understand and they knew the Scriptures well. But none of them with him ever believe he came to abolish the Law and the prophets, he was adamant to tell them not to think so. But yet today so many do think that way.

This, this statement that the Law and the Prophets would not pass away UNTILL all had been fulfilled was accomplished, and the Law and Prophets could, at that time, pass away.

Really? What about all the prophecies within them that still haven't happened yet?

There are many but here's one you may be able to relate to.

Jeremiah 31:31-34

Those who consider themselves, Israel may be in part but what about Judah? Yes, for the past few decades many Jews are coming to Messiah like never seen since the first century but because of the Gentiles treatment of them they have been in fear of doing so because of the abominable treatment they have received.
So that hasn't totally been fulfilled yet.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I see you make it all about you when it's all about God the Father and the Son.

This sums it up. Our will over God’s. The seventh day Sabbath is not our time, it’s God’s. This is the only commandment that deals with our time. The Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord thy God. Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and we are commanded to keep the same day that is holy to God holy, because we are made in His image to follow Him. Exodus 20:8-11

How does one know someone- through spending time together. We have an appointment every Sabbath to rest in Him through our time- doing His ways, not ours. Some serious warnings in scripture for those who God does not know. 1 John 2:3-5, Matthew 7:21-23. God knows everyone, but thats not was is being referred, He says when we keep His Sabbath it’s a sign between Him and His people. Ezekiel 20:20, Ezekiel 20:12 God has one people and there is one God.

The Sabbath is meant to be a blessing and when we cease from our works on the Sabbath just like God did on the Sabbath Hebrews 4:10, Hebrews 4:4, Genesis 2:1-3 we enter into His glorious rest and we are depending on His righteousness, not our own. Psalms 119:172 His sanctifying power Ezekiel 20:12 because we can’t sanctify ourselves and in return He blesses us. Isaiah 58:13-14. God is so good!

 

[Doug Brents]

As you just said here, the OT which contains the command to keep the Sabbath was cancelled. So maybe my question should have been who gave the authority to 'cancel' Gods holy word? Does that mean that Jesus is cancelled also because many of the writings in the OT (including the ones not yet fulfilled) are about Him?

God is the author of all Scripture. And He said He canceled the Old Covenant in favor of the New Covenant as cited previously.

No, the history and lessons we learn from it were not canceled. ‍♂️

Another question, how do you 'cancel' the 39 books of the OT without cancelling out the story of Creation and the first Sabbath? and of course the giving of his special people to keep it holy in honor of Him?

Scripture says the Old Covenant was canceled. That means that we are no longer subject to it. We are no longer responsible to the school master. Under the NC, many of the “rules” are the same: don’t murder, don’t steal, don’t covet, etc. But some of the “rules” were not transferred over to the NC: just as things like nap time, and set bedtimes are for children under a nanny but adults have the freedom to choose these things for themselves. So too in the NC we are not restricted by times, or days, or diet as they were in the OC.

I see you make it all about you when it's all about God the Father and the Son.

You can’t argue the Scriptures so you point out the fact that I am speaking in therms of us, we, I, etc? No, it is not “all about ‘you’”. Of course it is all God. But then, He is the one who said we are no longer subject to the Law of Moses and the OT.

Since you only give credence to the NT, how do you make this fit?

John 1- 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

2 The same was in the beginning with God.​

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.​

So we see here that Jesus (the Word) In the beginning (creation) was with God. It states twice that it was 'In the beginning.'
ALL things were made by Jesus with God in the Beginning.
This includes the heavens, the earth, the sun, moon, stars, plants, trees, fish, birds, beasts mankind AND the Seventh day which He (Jesus) proclaimed to be the Sabbath rest from Creation.
Since Adam had already been created he too knew it was a special day set aside in HONOR of his CREATOR.

I am not going to continue to argue with you.

The Word of God says:
Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, and that they would not pass away until all was fulfilled (Matt 5:17-18); then He said it was finished (His mission to complete the Law and Prophets) when He died (John 19:30). We are then told that the Old Law was a guardian, a school master, to bring us to Christ. Once we are under Christ (since His resurrection) we are no longer under the school master, but under Christ (Gal 3:24).

You can argue all day long that we are still subject to the Law of Moses, and the moral code in it, but God says we are not. We have those laws as an example, but they are not binding on us today. If you do believe that we are bound to the Law, then you must also must keep the whole Law or be condemned (Gal 4:21-5:6).

 

[daq]

The Word of God says:
Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets,

I believe he says that he came to fill up the Torah, to cram it to the full, in other words to complete the correct interpretations and understanding of the Torah. That's why he gives us so many correct meanings and interpretations in the Matthew 5 passage: and all of them are deeper in meaning because they are supposed to be internalized. You know what I mean, correct? For example even if a man just looks at a woman with lust he has already committed adultery with her in his heart, in the eyes of the Father.

and that they would not pass away until all was fulfilled (Matt 5:17-18); then He said it was finished (His mission to complete the Law and Prophets) when He died (John 19:30).

I believe he meant that his all-important Testimony was finished: the new Spirit of the renewed Covenant as it is understood by and through his Testimony. The Prophet Ezekiel foretold this new Spirit and Yohanne expounds it in John 7:37-39. The Spirit was "not yet" because the Messiah was not yet glorified: thus the new Spirit of the renewed Covenant was not complete until he said, "It is finished". He plainly tells us that his words are Spirit, (and Life, John 6:63), and therefore his Testimony is the new Spirit of the renewed Covenant.

We are then told that the Old Law was a guardian, a school master, to bring us to Christ. Once we are under Christ (since His resurrection) we are no longer under the school master, but under Christ (Gal 3:24).

No, we are told that the Torah has become our guardian or schoolmaster into Messiah.

If you do believe that we are bound to the Law, then you must also must keep the whole Law or be condemned (Gal 4:21-5:6).

Galatians 4:21-5:6?

Are you aware that Paul quotes Isaiah 54:1 in Galatians 4:27 immediately after saying that Yerushalem of above is our mother? And by the context and the allegory he surely means our mother covenant. N/T authors do not quote from scripture passages and ignore the surrounding context: that would be cherry-picking. Paul surely intends that the reader go back and study the context so that he or she may fully understand what he is saying. In the passage from which he quotes we find that Yerushalem of above therein is likened to the Mishkan Tabernacle of the Torah and thus according to Paul this is representative of our mother covenant.

Isaiah 54:1-3 KJV
1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD. [Gal 4:27]
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

The tent, the curtains, the cords, the stakes?
These are all items pertaining to the Mishkan-Tabernacle.

Accordingly therefore the same deeper teachings from Matthew 5 apply here also:
Honor your father and your mother: that your days may be long upon the land...

 

[Doug Brents]

I believe he says that he came to fill up the Torah, to cram it to the full, in other words to complete the correct interpretations and understanding of the Torah. That's why he gives us so many correct meanings and interpretations in the Matthew 5 passage: and all of them are deeper in meaning because they are supposed to be internalized. You know what I mean, correct? For example even if a man just looks at a woman with lust he has already committed adultery with her in his heart, in the eyes of the Father.

I know what you mean, but that understanding doesn’t really match the rest of Scripture. Yes, He gave more detailed commands in a lot of cases, but He also kept the Law perfectly and so fulfilled every command (something no other person has ever, or will ever, be able to do.

I believe he meant that his all-important Testimony was finished: the new Spirit of the renewed Covenant as it is understood by and through his Testimony. The Prophet Ezekiel foretold this new Spirit and Yohanne expounds it in John 7:37-39. The Spirit was "not yet" because the Messiah was not yet glorified: thus the new Spirit of the renewed Covenant was not complete until he said, "It is finished". He plainly tells us that his words are Spirit, (and Life, John 6:63), and therefore his Testimony is the new Spirit of the renewed Covenant.

That is also true, so it it possible that both meanings of “it is finished” are correct.

No, we are told that the Torah has become our guardian or schoolmaster into Messiah.

Let’s read it together in context, shall we?
“But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”
You are correct that it says “has become” but that is irrelevant in the context of us no longer being “under the guardian”, because the very next sentence tells us that explicitly.
The Law was like a guardian to bring us to faith, but now that we have faith we are no longer under the guardian.

Galatians 4:21-5:6?

Are you aware that Paul quotes Isaiah 54:1 in Galatians 4:27 immediately after saying that Yerushalem of above is our mother? And by the context and the allegory he surely means our mother covenant. N/T authors do not quote from scripture passages and ignore the surrounding context: that would be cherry-picking. Paul surely intends that the reader go back and study the context so that he or she may fully understand what he is saying. In the passage from which he quotes we find that Yerushalem of above therein is likened to the Mishkan Tabernacle of the Torah and thus according to Paul this is representative of our mother covenant.

Isaiah 54:1-3 KJV
1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD. [Gal 4:27]
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

The tent, the curtains, the cords, the stakes?
These are all items pertaining to the Mishkan-Tabernacle.

Accordingly therefore the same deeper teachings from Matthew 5 apply here also:
Honor your father and your mother: that your days may be long upon the land...

I’m sorry, but this interpretation completely ignores the point the Holy Spirit through Paul was making in Galatians.
Gal 4:24 - “This is speaking allegorically, for these women are two covenants: one coming from Mount Sinai giving birth to children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.”
The covenant coming from Mt. Sinai brings forth slaves. But, verse 26 says, the we are of the Jerusalem that is above; we are not the children of the bond woman, but of the free woman; not of Sinai, but of Christ.

 

[daq]

Let’s read it together in context, shall we?
“But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”
You are correct that it says “has become” but that is irrelevant in the context of us no longer being “under the guardian”, because the very next sentence tells us that explicitly.
The Law was like a guardian to bring us to faith, but now that we have faith we are no longer under the guardian.

The context includes the whole letter in my understanding, and because of this, I do not see where you have the right to insert yourself into the "we" in that passage. The "we" is plainly stated in the opening of the letter.

Galatians 1:1-2 (abridged)
1 Paul, an apostle,.......
2 And all the brethren which are with me,.......

The "we" is Paul, "And all the brethren that are with me". I strongly suggest that you have assumed too much. When were you ever actually "under the Law"? And how can one be brought out from under something he or she was never under to begin with? Every one of us has need of patience, that, after we have done the will of Elohim, we might receive the promise. When you first believed you did not immediately receive the promise but rather, as Paul puts it, you received the earnest of the Spirit. The full redemption does not come until the time appointed of the Father when a babe or child becomes a son, just as Paul teaches in Gal 4:1-2. Were you under a guardian or tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father? There is a guardian or schoolmaster, and we both know what that is and where Paul says it, but there are also in the same passage tutors and governors: the Torah, Prophets, and Writings are the guardian, tutors, and governors. As for your appointed time, according to Paul in Gal 4:1-2, it is the same day whereof the Master himself says that no one knows the day or the hour. We do not get to pick and choose the day that Elohim will "save" us, (i.e. with a so-called sinner's prayer).

I’m sorry, but this interpretation completely ignores the point the Holy Spirit through Paul was making in Galatians.
Gal 4:24 - “This is speaking allegorically, for these women are two covenants: one coming from Mount Sinai giving birth to children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.”
The covenant coming from Mt. Sinai brings forth slaves. But, verse 26 says, the we are of the Jerusalem that is above; we are not the children of the bond woman, but of the free woman; not of Sinai, but of Christ.

The portion you highlighted tells me that you do not understand what you read. I brought up Yerushalem of above: you now appear to be saying that Yerushalem of above is actually Hagar the Egyptian. Reread the text: Yerushalem of above is taught in the Isaiah passage, even according to Paul, and that isn't Hagar. The teachings of below are of Hagar because Egypt represents the flesh and the physical. Therefore it is about interpretation and understanding: not a whole different set of rules and-or laws. Yerushalem of below represents the physical and carnal understanding of the Torah. Yerushalem of above represents the supernal and spiritual understanding of the very same Torah.

For the same reason Paul says that the natural mind cannot please Elohim: why? because the natural mind cannot understand the Torah, which is the Word of Elohim, and which is spiritual, (Rom 7:14). Neither you nor Paul can abolish, cancel, or delete what is Spirit and-or spiritual, and since Paul plainly states that the Torah is spiritual, (Rom 7:14), it is rather mainstreamers who misunderstand the writings of Paul and abuse them for their own purposes.

 

[Doug Brents]

The context includes the whole letter in my understanding, and because of this, I do not see where you have the right to insert yourself into the "we" in that passage. The "we" is plainly stated in the opening of the letter.

Galatians 1:1-2 (abridged)
1 Paul, an apostle,.......
2 And all the brethren which are with me,.......

The "we" is Paul, "And all the brethren that are with me".

And the brothers and sisters in the Church in Galatia to whom he addressed the letter. And by extension, all the Christians who read and believe the Bible is God’s Word today.

I strongly suggest that you have assumed too much. When were you ever actually "under the Law"? And how can one be brought out from under something he or she was never under to begin with? Every one of us has need of patience, that, after we have done the will of Elohim, we might receive the promise. When you first believed you did not immediately receive the promise but rather, as Paul puts it, you received the earnest of the Spirit. The full redemption does not come until the time appointed of the Father when a babe or child becomes a son, just as Paul teaches in Gal 4:1-2. Were you under a guardian or tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father? There is a guardian or schoolmaster, and we both know what that is and where Paul says it, but there are also in the same passage tutors and governors: the Torah, Prophets, and Writings are the guardian, tutors, and governors. As for your appointed time, according to Paul in Gal 4:1-2, it is the same day whereof the Master himself says that no one knows the day or the hour. We do not get to pick and choose the day that Elohim will "save" us,

You can suggest that I assume too much all you want. I am just reading what the Scripture says. The Old Covenant was a schoolmaster/guardian, and that guardian is no longer relevant to any Christian today. We do not need a guardian, because we have access directly to the Father.

(i.e. with a so-called sinner's prayer).

I have seen no evidence in Scripture to support such a thing.

The portion you highlighted tells me that you do not understand what you read. I brought up Yerushalem of above: you now appear to be saying that Yerushalem of above is actually Hagar the Egyptian.

No, read it again. Jerusalem from above is Christ, figuratively the child of Sarah. Hagar is Mt. Sinai and the covenant that came from it.

It says clearly in the text that the Old Covenant is Hagar, the slave mother of slaves. The new Covenant in Christ is Sarah, the free mother of freemen.