GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

[SabbathBlessings]

God is the same, but His commands and how He relates to man have changed over time.

He does not change: His character, His nature, His power; but His mind does change, He has changed the way He deals with man, He has repented of a decision He made. And He said, not I, that He would make a NEW Covenant with man, and that New Covenant would replace the Old because the Old was but a shadow of the real, and the real is Christ.

Yes, the sabbath in the OT was the 7th day. No one is disputing that. But in the NT the sabbath is Christ. He takes away our work, and He gives us peace. And all of that is from the text, not my opinion or speculation. It is directly from God’s word.

Just because you refuse to see what is in the text does not mean it is not there. Your focus is so tight on keeping (at least some of) the OC Law that you, like the Pharisees, cannot see that the OC is obsolete. It is no longer valid for Christians today. I pray that your vision would be restored and you would see what God wrote for us to understand.

Not one scripture to back your ideas. God's character is reflected in His laws which is why it is perfect for converting the soul Psalms 19:7 and when we obey it leads us to righteousness Romans 6:16 and all of God's commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 and Truth Psalms 119:151 God wrote His commandments clearly, both spoken and personally written Exodus 20, Exodus 31:18, Exodus 32:16 so I am not the one who needs my vision restored. God said not to edit His commandments Deut 4:2 and that came with some warnings Proverbs 30:5-6 God wrote His laws in the New Covenant instead of deleting them. Hebrews 8:10. A covenant is an agreement, the previous agreement ended , but not the laws. It was a renewed covenant, that Jesus is the Mediator of God's New Covenant promise and our High Priest, so we go to Him instead of sacrificing animals for the forgiveness of sins, which is what ended at the cross Col 2:14, not God's moral commandments. Breaking God's law has the same role in the OT as it does in the NT it points out sin. Romans 7:7 and why we need Jesus to forgive us when breaking. He enables His Holy Spirit to keep these commandments for those who want to obey. John 14:15-18

I base my beliefs on the Text because God said it's the correct lighted path Psalms 119:105 but sadly you don't believe these words since its from the OT, so I will have to leave it as I wish you the best.

 

[Doug Brents]

Agreed, the word used for "rest" refers to ceasing from creative activity.


God did not command the Israelites to rest one day our of seven, but to rest on the 7th day. Resting on the 7th day is in remembrance of when God rested after Creation and the Israelites received a double portion of manna for the 7th day, so they knew on which day God rested, and the Israelites were all to rest on the same day.




Resting on the the Sabbath testifies about the Messiah and we should live in a way that testifies about him. The Sabbath does not involve resting from our obedience to God, but from our creative work. In Jeremiah 6:16-19, God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, not as the way to labor for God to earn our salvation. In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, God's word says that His law is not too difficult to keep, so it is false that we can't possibly keep all of them. In Psalms 119:160, all of God's righteous laws are eternal, so they were not given temporarily. Again, we should live in a way that testifies about the ultimate sacrifices by obeying God's laws for how to do that rather than a way that denies it. God's law was not given as a means of earning our justification as a wage even through perfect obedience (Romans 4:4-5), which is why there are many verses that speak against that misunderstanding of the goal of the law, so that was never something that we needed to rest from. Furthermore, the fact that we don't earn our justification by obeying God does not mean that we aren't still obligated to obey God.




Again, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother with Passover, he concludes that we should therefore keep. So the fact that the Sabbath foreshadows Christ is a reason why we should continue to keep the 7th day holy. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct as he is holy, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3), so by keeping those laws we are acting in accordance with and testifying about God's eternal holiness. It is contradictory for someone to want to be made holy by believing in Christ while wanting nothing to do with following God's instructions for how to have a holy conduct as He is holy. The only way that we should no longer follow God's instructions for how to have a holy conduct as He is holy would be if God were no longer eternally holy.

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so to rely on God's law for salvation is the way to rely on God for salvation, while for you to speak against relying on God's law is to speak against relying on God. Obedience to any set of instructions is about relying on the one who gave them to correctly guide us, so thinking that our obedience to God's law is about our self-effort is not giving credit where it is due. Christ expressed the righteousness of God through His obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when we have become the righteousness of God.



If you think that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, then you should live in a way that testifies about that truth by keeping the 7th day holy rather than a way that denies it. While God commanded His people to rest on the 7th day, He also commanded priests to make offering on the 7th day (Numbers 28:9-10), however it was not the case that they were forced to sin by transgressing one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed. This is why Jesus said that priests who did their duties on the Sabbath were held innocents, why David and his men were innocent, and why he defended his disciples as being innocent (Matthew 12:5-7), so there has never been anything wrong with getting a sheep out of a pit on the Sabbath, but that doesn't mean that a priest who did creative work on the Sabbath would still be held innocent. In Galatians 4:4, Jesus was born under the law, so he was obligated to obey it, and he was sinless, so he never broke it, which includes never breaking the Sabbath. Again, if you think that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, then he could not do away with the Sabbath without doing away with himself. The Sabbath is a gift from God that was given for our own good in order to bless us and was not given for our detriment, so it was never intended to prevent someone from being healed. Jesus came to set us free from sin, not to set us free to be able to sin. Nowhere does the Bible state that Jesus is our Sabbath now instead of keeping the 7th day holy.



Again, in Hebrews 4:11, we should strive to enter into God's rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so you should not try to use that to justify the same sort of disobedience.



In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact expression of God's nature, or in other words, he is the living embodiment of the nature of God expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk obedience to God's law, so he is the personification of righteousness, justice, holiness, etc., and there is no righteousness, justice, or holiness apart from the nature of who he is. However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do what is righteous, just, and holy, but just the opposite, we should seek to be like Christ and to testify about who he is by parting in his nature through following his example. God's law is the way (Psalms 119:1-3), the truth (Psalms 119:142), and the life (Deuteronomy 32:47), and the way to know the Father (Exodus 33:13), and Jesus is the living embodiment of the way, the truth, and the life, and the way to know the Father (John 14:6-7), so it is contradictory to believe in one while rejecting the other. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to God's law is intrinsically part of the concept of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it, while refusing to repent and live in obedience to it in accordance with the Gospel is the way to neglect so great a salvation.

So what you are saying is that the Law of Moses is equally capable of bringing us salvation as Jesus is? If we just keep the Law, we will have peace, rest, and harmony with God?

NO!!!!

This is condemned in Scripture repeatedly. There is only one way to God and that is through Christ, not through the Law. That is why the Law was removed. It was incapable of restoring us to God.

The sabbath is part of that old covenant. Yes, it is fine to keep the sabbath today, and it is fine to do so in honor to God. But it is not ok to base your salvation on the fact that you keep the sabbath or to condemn me (or anyone else) because I (they) don’t.

 

[Doug Brents]

Not one scripture to back your ideas. God wrote His commandments clearly, both spoken and personally written Exodus 20, Exodus 31:18, Exodus 32:16 so I am not the one who needs my vision restored. God said not to edit His commandments Deut 4:2 and that came with some warnings Proverbs 30:5-6 Godd wrote His laws in the New Covenant instead of deleting them. Hebrews 8:10. A covenant is an agreement, the agreement ended , but not the laws.

I base my beliefs on the Text because God said it's the correct lighted path Psalms 119:105 but sadly you don't believe these words since its from the OT, so I will have to leave it as I wish you the best.

The text backing up what I said has already been posted, but instead of studying it, you rapidfire your pet verses thinking you know the truth. But you refuse to recognize that Christ, being superior to the Law, removed it in favor of Himself. His laws are no longer the written code from the OT, but are now written on our hearts, not a legalistic code of do this, don’t do that, keep this day, etc., but the Holy Spirit living in our heart.

You would keep us trying to live by the Old Law (the Law of Moses), and deny us the freedom that comes through Christ. (Gal 5:1-6 - “It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

2 Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you.3 And I testify again to every man who has himself circumcised, that he is obligated to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.”

And again in Rom 13:8-10 - “8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.”

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The text backing up what I said has already been posted, but instead of studying it, you rapidfire your pet verses thinking you know the truth. But you refuse to recognize that Christ, being superior to the Law, removed it in favor of Himself. His laws are no longer the written code from the OT, but are now written on our hearts, not a legalistic code of do this, don’t do that, keep this day, etc., but the Holy Spirit living in our heart.

You would keep us trying to live by the Old Law (the Law of Moses), and deny us the freedom that comes through Christ. (Gal 5:1-6 - “It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

2 Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you.3 And I testify again to every man who has himself circumcised, that he is obligated to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.”

And again in Rom 13:8-10 - “8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.”

The Spirit and the written code are not in conflict. The Spirit is what convicts us of the written code John 16:8 if we have not hardened our hearts. Jesus explained what it means obeying by the Spirit of the law...right from the Ten Commandments. Jesus starts off saying we should not break the least of these commandments nor teach others to break. Matthew 5:19 and goes on to say....

Matthew 5: 21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

Is Jesus teaching we can literally murder as long as there is no anger in the heart? Thats not possible and not the message Jesus is teaching. He wants our hearts changed and if we change our thoughts from contempt to compassion and love than "thou shalt not murder" would automatically be kept, The Spirit is greater than the letter, but if one is breaking the letter the Spirit is not in them. 1 John 3:6 1 John 2:3-5 Those who are walking by the flesh (sin- breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 ) cannot please God.

Romans 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Love does not delete the laws, it's how we show love to God and to man.
1 John 5: 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

Paul reminds us what matters: 1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

 

[Soyeong]

So what you are saying is that the Law of Moses is equally capable of bringing us salvation as Jesus is? If we just keep the Law, we will have peace, rest, and harmony with God?

NO!!!!

This is condemned in Scripture repeatedly. There is only one way to God and that is through Christ, not through the Law. That is why the Law was removed. It was incapable of restoring us to God.

The sabbath is part of that old covenant. Yes, it is fine to keep the sabbath today, and it is fine to do so in honor to God. But it is not ok to base your salvation on the fact that you keep the sabbath or to condemn me (or anyone else) because I (they) don’t.

It is contradictory to think that we are saved by God's word made flesh, but are not saved by God's word, and contradictory to think that the only way to God is through God's word made flesh, but not through God's word. God's word can't be removed without also removing God's word made flesh. Rather, all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them will ever be removed.

Again, our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and the Law of Moses is how we know what sin is (Romans 3:20), so while we do not earn our salvation by obeying it, living in obedience to it is nevertheless intrinsically part of the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it. For example, honoring our parents is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents, and keeping the Sabbath holy is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not keeping the Sabbath holy.

There are many verses that I could cite like Romans 4:4-5 that speak against earning our justification as a wage and many verses like Romans 2:13 that support our justification requiring us to choose to be doers of the law, so there must be a reason that our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than for the goal of earning it as a wage, such as faith insofar as Romans 3:31 says that our faith upholds God's law. Yet instead of obediently upholding God's law through faith, you seek to abolish it.

 

[Lulav]

It is contradictory to think that we are saved by God's word made flesh, but are not saved by God's word, and contradictory to think that the only way to God is through God's word made flesh, but not through God's word. God's word can't be removed without also removing God's word made flesh. Rather, all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so none of them will ever be removed.

Again, our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and the Law of Moses is how we know what sin is (Romans 3:20), so while we do not earn our salvation by obeying it, living in obedience to it is nevertheless intrinsically part of the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it. For example, honoring our parents is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents, and keeping the Sabbath holy is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not keeping the Sabbath holy.

There are many verses that I could cite like Romans 4:4-5 that speak against earning our justification as a wage and many verses like Romans 2:13 that support our justification requiring us to choose to be doers of the law, so there must be a reason that our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than for the goal of earning it as a wage, such as faith insofar as Romans 3:31 says that our faith upholds God's law. Yet instead of obediently upholding God's law through faith, you seek to abolish it.

John put it so eloquently:

1 In the beginning was the Word, ------ The WORD being Yeshua
and the Word was with God,---------------with Him from eternity past to eternity future
and the Word was God. -----------------The WORD, Y'SHUA Is GOD
2 He was in the beginning with God. ----They are together from the beginning
3 All things were made through Him,----Everything, including the commandments were done through the WORD - Y'shua
and without Him nothing
was made that was made.

The New Covenant was not about New Laws, it was about going from externally to internally. Like a New version

 

[Doug Brents]

The Spirit and the written code are not in conflict. The Spirit is what convicts us of the written code John 16:8 if we have not hardened our hearts. Jesus explained what it means obeying by the Spirit of the law...right from the Ten Commandments. Jesus starts off saying we should not break the least of these commandments nor teach others to break. Matthew 5:19 and goes on to say....

Matthew 5: 21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

Is Jesus teaching we can literally murder as long as there is no anger in the heart? Thats not possible and not the message Jesus is teaching. He wants our hearts changed and if we change our thoughts from contempt to compassion and love than "thou shalt not murder" would automatically be kept, The Spirit is greater than the letter, but if one is breaking the letter the Spirit is not in them. 1 John 3:6 1 John 2:3-5 Those who are walking by the flesh (sin- breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 ) cannot please God.

Romans 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Love does not delete the laws, it's how we show love to God and to man according to the Text.
1 John 5: 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

Which Paul reminds us what matters: 1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

No, love does not delete the law of God. But God did delete the Old Covenant, with all the laws and codes in it, in favor of the law of Christ.

There are several lists in the NT where numerous sins are listed that will keep one from entering the Kingdom of God. The sabbath is not mentioned in a single one of them, but there are several (homosexuality among them) that are listed but are not among the 10.

Romans 7:6​

Galatians 3:10​

Galatians 3:24-25​

Galatians 2:16​

Romans 7:1-25​

These 5 passages all tell us that we are free, released from, and dead to the Law. All of the moral mandates of the Law were restated in the New Covenant, but the keeping of the sabbath is not listed among the New Covenant mandates, laws, or commandments.

Romans 14:5 states, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, that keeping sabbath is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Keeping the sabbath is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind.

When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). The decision was, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to force on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was God’s command for Christians to observe the sabbath day.

 

[daq]

Commenting on this idea:

Not overthrew the word, but fulfilled the law.

The reasoning presented as to why the laws about unclean foods are fulfilled is given here imo:

...whatever goes into the person from the outside can’t defile him, because it doesn’t go into his heart, but into his stomach, then into the sewer.

Peace be with you all.

And what if you are listening in on a discussion between Pescatarians or Vegetarians and do not even realize who you are listening to as they talk among themselves? I would say that you should have studied their community rules and laws if you wished to truly understand what they were talking about.

Ask Peter in Acts 10:14 and he will tell you, if you have ears to hear and truly wish to know, that he never believed the Master said what you all say he says in Mark 7.

 

[Lulav]

No, love does not delete the law of God. But God did delete the Old Covenant, with all the laws and codes in it, in favor of the law of Christ.

God = Love therefore Love deleted the Law he made, yeah makes sense.

There are several lists in the NT where numerous sins are listed that will keep one from entering the Kingdom of God. The sabbath is not mentioned in a single one of them, but there are several (homosexuality among them) that are listed but are not among the 10.

Romans 7:6​

Galatians 3:10​

Galatians 3:24-25​

Galatians 2:16​

Romans 7:1-25​

These 5 passages all tell us that we are free, released from, and dead to the Law.

Show me where without using the letters of one man, use can use the gospels, and the other writings from John, Jude, James, Peter, take your pick.

All of the moral mandates of the Law were restated in the New Covenant, but the keeping of the sabbath is not listed among the New Covenant mandates, laws, or commandments.

Maybe because it isn't a law so much as a special commandment for God's chosen people to uphold to the world who the Real True God is?

Romans 14:5 states, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.”

Sounds like a Chinese take out menu, choose 1 from column A and 2 from Column B....

These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, that keeping sabbath is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Keeping the sabbath is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind.

Yes, about wither or not they want to pay homage to the Creator God, the same is the one of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). The decision was, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to force on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was God’s command for Christians to observe the sabbath day.

Yet you leave out the most important part. They were given the four categories to keep, why? So they could be in the synagogues with the Jews and build on that. It was like the ABC's of being one of God's people, then you go to learn how to write those letters and learn words, and sentences, and the fine points of grammar so you can go on to learn other subjects which need that foundation to learn.

This is the part you left off that summarizes everything.

"For Moses (TORAH- the Instructions from God) from generations of old hath in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath."

 

[Doug Brents]

Show me where without using the letters of one man, use can use the gospels, and the other writings from John, Jude, James, Peter, take your pick.

So you want me to use God’s word, but I am forbidden to use some of God’s word?

Paul is not the author, and neither is John, James, Jude, or Peter, or Moses, or any other of the Biblical writers: God is. It doesn’t matter if Paul put pen to paper or if John was the one to do so, God was the author of the words they wrote.

Yet you leave out the most important part. They were given the four categories to keep, why? So they could be in the synagogues with the Jews and build on that. It was like the ABC's of being one of God's people, then you go to learn how to write those letters and learn words, and sentences, and the fine points of grammar so you can go on to learn other subjects which need that foundation to learn.

Absolutely not. This wasn’t about about “be[ing] in the synagogues with the Jews and build on that.” In the New Covenant, there is no Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female. It doesn’t matter about the Synagogue. The New Covenant is for all mankind, with the same rules, commandments, and path to salvation for all.

 

[Soyeong]

No, love does not delete the law of God. But God did delete the Old Covenant, with all the laws and codes in it, in favor of the law of Christ.

God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example, so it wouldn't make sense to think that the Law of Christ was something other than what Christ taught.

There are several lists in the NT where numerous sins are listed that will keep one from entering the Kingdom of God. The sabbath is not mentioned in a single one of them, but there are several (homosexuality among them) that are listed but are not among the 10.

No one in the NT was in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, so there is no need for them to repeat any of His commands in order for us to know that we should still obey the Father. Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, so he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had repeated nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22).

Romans 7:6​

Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as the law of sin and works of the law. For example, in Romans 7:22-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law and obeyed it with his mind, but he contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, and which he served with his flesh. If Romans 7:5-6 were referring to the Law of God, then that would mean that Paul delighted in stirring sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death and that he delighted in being held captive, which is absurd, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.

Galatians 3:10​

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who have obeyed God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, in Galatians 3:1-2, Paul denies that works of the law are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore the phrase "works of the law" does not refer to anything that God has commanded. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted as law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said in Romans 3:31, that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3:10&version=ESV

Galatians 3:24-25​

Galatians 2:16​

Romans 7:1-25​

These 5 passages all tell us that we are free, released from, and dead to the Law. All of the moral mandates of the Law were restated in the New Covenant, but the keeping of the sabbath is not listed among the New Covenant mandates, laws, or commandments.

You should be quicker to think that you have misunderstood the passages that you cited than to think that it makes perfect sense to interpret God's word and speaking against obeying God's word. We have been set free from sin in order to be free to obey God's law, not the other way around. Morality is based on what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws, and if you grant that we should still obey all of God's moral mandates, then you should agree that we should still keep the Sabbath holy. If only some of God's laws were moral mandates, then it would be moral to disobey the laws that are not, but not a single example in the Bible where disobedience to one of God's laws was considered to be moral.

Romans 14:5 states, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, that keeping sabbath is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Keeping the sabbath is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind.

The topic of Romans 14 stated in the first verse is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow what He has commanded, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted as speaking against obeying God. For example, in in Romans 14:1-3, some people were of the disputable opinion that only vegetables should be eaten, so they were disdaining and passing judgement on each other over a matter that God did not command anyone to do.

In Romans 14:4-6, some were eating or refraining from eating unto the Lord, so it is speak about those who esteemed certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion. In the 1st century, it has become a common practice for people to fast twice a week and people were passing judgement on others for not choosing to fast twice a week even though God gave no command to do that (Luke 18:12). They were even judging each other over which two days of the week that they chose to fast (Didache 8:1-2). Paul was not saying that we are free to commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, rape, kidnapping, or break the Sabbath just as long as we are convinced in our minds that it is ok to do, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion. The reason why we are to keep the Sabbath holy is not because man esteemed it as a disputable matter of opinion, but because God rested on it, blessed it, made it holy, and commanded His followers to keep it holy. What is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so we would still be obligated to keep the Sabbath holy even if God had never commanded anyone to do that.

When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). The decision was, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to force on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was God’s command for Christians to observe the sabbath day.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and God's law is how we know what sin is (Romans 3:20), so it is contradictory for someone to want the gift of salvation from sin while wanting nothing to do with the content of that gift of getting the delight of living in obedience to God's law. The Jerusalem Council did not have the authority to countermand God or to tell anyone not to obey any of His commandments, and the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so you should be quicker to disregard everything that the Jerusalem Council said than to disregard anything that God has commanded, however, it does not need to come down to that because the reality is that the Jerusalem Council were servants of God who never spoke against obeying Him. In Acts 15:19-21, it was expected that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues, which implies that they were already keeping the Sabbath holy in obedience to God's command in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

 

[Lulav]

So you want me to use God’s word, but I am forbidden to use some of God’s word?

Paul is not the author, and neither is John, James, Jude, or Peter, or Moses, or any other of the Biblical writers: God is. It doesn’t matter if Paul put pen to paper or if John was the one to do so, God was the author of the words they wrote.

I'd just like to see you make your case not using Paul's words as Peter said they are hard to understand.

Absolutely not. This wasn’t about about “be[ing] in the synagogues with the Jews and build on that.”

They why did James say this?
"For Moses (TORAH- the Instructions from God) from generations of old hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath."

And this was in response to you saying that Sabbath was never mentioned, instead you pick a strawman.

In the New Covenant, there is no Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female.

The New Covenant that was to be made with Judah and Israel? Nope, no Gentiles there.

It doesn’t matter about the Synagogue.

It did back then, that is were the instructions from God were taught.

The New Covenant is for all mankind, with the same rules, commandments, and path to salvation for all.

Jeremiah 31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.

33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

[Doug Brents]

I'd just like to see you make your case not using Pauls words as Peter said they are hard to understand.

In some cases, Paul is difficult to understand, but the lists God made of willful sins that prevent one from entering the Kingdom are not difficult to understand at all.

They why did James say this?
"For Moses (TORAH- the Instructions from God) from generations of old hath in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath."

First, show me any mention in the OT of synagogues. They are a creation of man, used by God to spread of His New Covenant, but they have no Spiritual value, just as the buildings in which we worship today have no spiritual value.

Second, this reference points back to the reading of Torah during the OT and into the first century.

The New Covenant that was to be made with Judah and Israel? Nope, no Gentiles there.

The New Covenant was made with Judah and Israel, but they, for the most part, rejected it. So it was then given to the Gentiles as well. Still that one covenant.

It did back then, that is were the instructions from God were taught.

Jeremiah 31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.

33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Who is the only ONE who has ever been able to forgive sin? God! And God became man in Jesus, and He fulfilled this promise. He takes our sin away, and gave us the Holy Spirit to give us understanding of His laws and write them on our hearts. The fulfillment of this promise is Christ.

There is no other Covenant than the New Covyin Christ’s blood.

 

[BNR32FAN]

GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

Hi all,

thought this might be a good topic as I believe God as our creator knows what is good for our health and what is not good for us and that the health and dietary laws of the old covenant are written for our admonition and well being today. The question should also be considered can something that is clean yesterday be unclean today?

I have looked at most of the arguments here against God's dietary and health laws in relation to clean and unclean foods so this will be a thread to discuss these scriptures in details with application to context to see if they can really be used or not used to support or not support a for or against view of God's health and dietary laws.

For me I think COVID-19 is a good example why we cannot eat anything. Bats of course being UNCLEAN in the food laws given by God in Leviticus 11:13-19. The dietary laws for clean and unclean meats can be found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 for those interested.

For me, I cannot see any scripture in both the old and new testament that says that God's health and dietary laws have been abolished. God made us and knows what is good for our health and well being and if we break God's law and disobey His Word there are consequences like in the case of those eating their bat soup or stew giving us COVID-19 the started in China.

Some scriptures...

2 Corinthians 6:16, And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? FOR YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

19, What? KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST which is in you, which ye have of God, and YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN?

the health laws were given to God's people because we are the temple of God and he is the live in us.........

1 Corinthians 3:16, KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU? 17, IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.

This includes sin from the heart (Matthew 15:18).

These are some of the dietary laws God has given his people...

Genesis 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Deuteronomy 15:23 Only THOU SHALT NOT EAT THE BLOOD thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.

Leviticus 19:26 Ye shall not eat anything with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

1 Samuel 14:34 And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and SIN NOT AGAINST THE LORD IN EATING WITH THE BLOOD. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there.

most meats unless kosher have the blood in it...

Leviticus 11:47 TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

We are not to eat unclean foods...

Deuteronomy 14:3-21
3, THOU SHALT NOT EAT ANY ABOMINABLE THING.
4, These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat,
5, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.
6, And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.
7, Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
8, And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
9, These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10, And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
11, Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12, But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14, And every raven after his kind,
15, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
19, And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.
20, But of all clean fowls ye may eat.
21, Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Isaiah 65:2-8
2, I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walked in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3, A people that provoked me to anger continually to my face; that sacrifices in gardens, and burns incense upon altars of brick;

4, Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, WHICH EATS SWINES FLESH, and BROTH OF ABOMINABLE THINGS ARE IN THEIR VESSELS; 5, Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burns all the day. 6, Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, 7, Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

8, Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sake, that I may not destroy them all.

Isaiah 66:4-18
4, I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5, Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6, A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendersrecompence to his enemies.7, Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8, Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9, Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10, Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:11, That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12, For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.13, As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14, And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15, For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16, For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17, They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINES FLESH, and THE ABOMINATION, AND THE MOUSE, SHALL BE CONSUMED TOGETHER, SAYS THE LORD. 18, For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory....

22, For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23, And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24, And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, NEITHER HAVE THEY MADE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN <see Leviticus 11:47>, and have hid their eyes from my SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.

Those who have professed to follow God's laws in the past have always been in trouble for breaking God's laws.

What are your thoughts (please support your view by scripture and let's discuss)?

......................

Q1. Are Gods' health and dietary laws important for us today?
Q2. Is COVID-19 Gods' judgement for breaking His dietary laws?
Q3. Can a "CLEAN MEAT" become "UNCLEAN MEAT" today if so how?

Friendly discussion please.

God bless

People have been eating unkosher foods for thousands of years without any consequences. Catfish, shark, lobster, crab, crawfish, squid, octopus, pork, frog legs, rabbit, squirrel, and countless more have been eaten since creation without any viruses resulting from them.

From creation until after the flood man was a vegetarian. After the flood Noah was told that he was permitted to eat anything that moved. That continued until Moses brought the Jews to Mt Sinai. Then God commanded that the Jews must observe the dietary laws. After Christ’s resurrection Peter had a vision where God told him to eat unclean animals to which Peter refused and God said to him do not call that which I have made clean unclean. This was not only in reference to God extending the New Covenant to the Gentiles it was also in reference to the dietary laws with the exception of eating or drinking blood which has always been forbidden all the way back to creation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

John put it so eloquently:

1 In the beginning was the Word, ------ The WORD being Yeshua
and the Word was with God,---------------with Him from eternity past to eternity future
and the Word was God. -----------------The WORD, Y'SHUA Is GOD
2 He was in the beginning with God. ----They are together from the beginning
3 All things were made through Him,----Everything, including the commandments were done through the WORD - Y'shua
and without Him nothing
was made that was made.

The New Covenant was not about New Laws, it was about going from externally to internally. Like a New version

That’s not a new covenant at all then. It’s the same exact covenant as the first. If the only difference is the first one had the laws written in a book and the second has the laws written in our heart then that’s not a new covenant because the covenant itself has not changed. So then according to what your saying we are still under the law just as the Jews were before Christ’s ministry and Paul has made numerous errors in his epistles.

 

[BNR32FAN]

In some cases, Paul is difficult to understand, but the lists God made of willful sins that prevent one from entering the Kingdom are not difficult to understand at all.

First, show me any mention in the OT of synagogues. They are a creation of man, used by God to spread of His New Covenant, but they have no Spiritual value, just as the buildings in which we worship today have no spiritual value.

Second, this reference points back to the reading of Torah during the OT and into the first century.

The New Covenant was made with Judah and Israel, but they, for the most part, rejected it. So it was then given to the Gentiles as well. Still that one covenant.

Who is the only ONE who has ever been able to forgive sin? God! And God became man in Jesus, and He fulfilled this promise. He takes our sin away, and gave us the Holy Spirit to give us understanding of His laws and write them on our hearts. The fulfillment of this promise is Christ.

There is no other Covenant than the New Covyin Christ’s blood.

The Lord has written many things in my heart but observing dietary laws and sabbath days are not among them.

 

[Lulav]

These 5 passages all tell us that we are free, released from, and dead to the Law.

If you are released from it, when were you living by it?

 

[daq]

From creation until after the flood man was a vegetarian. After the flood Noah was told that he was permitted to eat anything that moved.

You'll need to actually prove that second statement with an explanation-exegesis of the text and the reasons why scholars punctuate the passage the way they do. You can start by explaining why green herbs are mentioned in the Noah passage and what that means, or what is actually intended in the passage with that statement, when in fact mankind was never given green herbs in the beginning. Green herbs are given for the beasts of the earth, the fowls, and the creepers, (Gen 1:30), created in that passage, but green herbs are not given to mankind for food, and there is a difference between herbs bearing seed, (Gen 1:29), and green herbs, (Gen 1:30). That's the problem with such easy to make proclamations so many people so often assume: it takes books to refute them, because the truth is not so easy to find as people assume. With an alternate punctuation, (which did not exist in the original Hebrew text), the text can actually be read to state that Noah was given fish that swarm, (swim in schools), in addition to what is stated in Genesis 1.

Moreover love for Elohim and His Word, and common sense, also play key roles in understanding these things. Fish that swim in schools are food created for the great sea creatures which are called living souls. These are different classes of life forms: one class is essentially those with skins, the greater sea creatures which are called living souls, while the other has scales and are food for the greater sea creatures. My Elohim would not make one living soul just to be food for another greater and more powerful living soul who would come along and devour it. Therefore fish with scales that swarm/swim in schools are not living souls, but are simply raw life, just as every green herb which the land animals are given for food to eat.

 

[Leaf473]

And what if you are listening in on a discussion between Pescatarians or Vegetarians and do not even realize who you are listening to as they talk among themselves? I would say that you should have studied their community rules and laws if you wished to truly understand what they were talking about.

If the Pescatarians or Vegetarians were using a reasoning that would apply to red meat as well, then I don't think it would matter.

Everything we eat ends up in the sewer, not the heart. That's the reasoning.

Ask Peter in Acts 10:14 and he will tell you, if you have ears to hear and truly wish to know, that he never believed the Master said what you all say he says in Mark 7.

It's a hard concept to grasp:
When he had entered into a house away from the multitude, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18He said to them, “Are you also without understanding?"

I'm not surprised that Peter in Acts 10 hasn't touched any dirty foods. We know that loads of Jewish believers in Jerusalem lived that way, too.

You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law.
Acts 21

But this is remarkable only if Paul isn't teaching the gentiles to live the same way.

So Peter is in the habit of eating a certain way, just as Paul was in the habit of doing things like keeping feasts in Jerusalem. But note that when Paul is hurrying to Jerusalem in time for Passover, he's not taking with him loads of devout gentiles from places like Corinth or Galatia.

Peace be with you, my man!

 

[Lulav]

Doug Brents said:
It doesn’t matter about the Synagogue.

It did back then, that is where the instructions from God were taught.

First, show me any mention in the OT of synagogues.

Assembly houses date back to the time of the return from the Babylonian exile. They are used for many things but the reading of the law was the most prominent. A place for reading of Torah and discussing Torah, just as Jesus did while on earth.

This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.​

Synagogues in the Galilee:

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.​

​

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.​

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?​

They are a creation of man, used by God to spread of His New Covenant, but they have no Spiritual value, just as the buildings in which we worship today have no spiritual value.

They date back to 465-423 bce. This assembly was not just for religious study but also a judicial place of meeting, all based on the Torah.

Second, this reference points back to the reading of Torah during the OT and into the first century.

Are you speaking of the Book of the Acts or the Gospels? If you are referring to the Jerusalem degree then it is definitely after the crucifixion and resurrection.

The New Covenant was made with Judah and Israel, but they, for the most part, rejected it.

Then how do you know of anything that went on then? Your NT is written by Jewish writers, except for maybe Luke, and in Lukes book of the Acts we see James saying that there were thousands of thousands of Jewish believers at the time and all were zealous for the laws of God.

So it was then given to the Gentiles as well. Still that one covenant.

How can the Gentiles have a New covenant when they dismiss the old?