GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

[daq]

And this is why you are so deluded. You cherry-pick my words just as you cherry-pick Scripture to find what fits your preconceptions.

So you didn't mean what you said in what I quoted? That does not make me deluded. There are many scripture passage quotes and explanations posted in this discussion with you which show who is deluded, if anyone, not to mention all of your other bold statements similar to the one I quoted from you in the previous post.

You made a confession but it was buried in a paragraph: I simply pulled that confession out of the paragraph so that you and anyone else would know what I meant by how I responded. You essentially said that the Almighty brought the children of Yisrael out from under bondage in Egypt only to place them under the bondage of sin by way of His Torah. That surely deserved what I responded with, ("Yikes!"). Sorry to hear that your ignorance of the scripture forces you to call me deluded.

Good morning boys and girls. Welcome to the Cancel Culture School of Apologetics. Today we are going to learn how to cancel God's Word and yet maintain that this is loving God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. And if you go forth into the highways and byways and preach this message from the street corners, rooftops, and internet boards, you will also be lovingly killing your neighbor as yourself. Remember Job's wife, who said, "Curse God and die", so that you can be set at liberty and free from your maladies and calamities like Job. And remember, anyone who disagrees with you is in bondage to God's laws and rules and regulations, and is deceived, and deserves to be canceled just like God's Word.

 

[Doug Brents]

So you didn't mean what you said in what I quoted? That does not make me deluded. There are many scripture passage quotes and explanations posted in this discussion with you which show who is deluded, if anyone, not to mention all of your other bold statements similar to the one I quoted from you in the previous post.

Yes, Scripture is full of bold pronouncements. But you take mine out of context when you remove the Scripture from it. The Scripture quoted there tells us that we are in bondage and slavery either to sin or to God. And passages I quoted earlier say the children of Israel were in bondage to sin because of the Law. So removing my statement from the Scripture removes the context of the statement making it seem like I am off the deep end. I am not. I am simply restating Scripture.

You made a confession but it was buried in a paragraph: I simply pulled that confession out of the paragraph so that you and anyone else would know what I meant by how I responded. You essentially said that the Almighty brought the children of Yisrael out from under bondage in Egypt only to place them under the bondage of sin by way of His Torah. That surely deserved what I responded with, ("Yikes!").

Not if that is what Scripture says. They were freed from physical bondage, but remained in spiritual bondage until Christ came and freed everyone. Different kind of bondage, but bondage none the less.

Good morning boys and girls. Welcome to the Cancel Culture School of Apologetics. Today we are going to learn how to cancel God's Word and yet maintain that this is loving God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. And if you go forth into the highways and byways and preach this message from the street corners, rooftops, and internet boards, you will also be lovingly killing your neighbor as yourself. Remember Job's wife, who said, "Curse God and die", so that you can be set at liberty and free from your maladies and calamities like Job. And remember, anyone who disagrees with you is in bondage to God's laws and rules and regulations, and is deceived, and deserves to be canceled just like God's Word.

This last statement is quite funny. You, as the Judaizers before you, would keep us bound to the Law which can only bring death (Rom 7:6, 2 Cor 3:4-6, Rom 8:2-3). And thereby refuse us Christ who is the only way to life and forgiveness.

 

[daq]

Yes, Scripture is full of bold pronouncements. But you take mine out of context when you remove the Scripture from it. The Scripture quoted there tells us that we are in bondage and slavery either to sin or to God. And passages I quoted earlier say the children of Israel were in bondage to sin because of the Law. So removing my statement from the Scripture removes the context of the statement making it seem like I am off the deep end. I am not. I am simply restating Scripture.

No, you were not restating the scripture: you were removing the Logos from the letter and inserting your own logos into it so as to justify what you choose to believe. Moreover, like I explained, why would I say "Yikes" to the scripture? You are just trying to make me look evil either way. You think you have backed me into a no-win situation but anyone else who is willing to see can see that your shenanigans are buffoonerous.

Not if that is what Scripture says. They were freed from physical bondage, but remained in spiritual bondage until Christ came and freed everyone. Different kind of bondage, but bondage none the less.

Death reigned from Adam until Mosheh.
Lol, sorry for your luck.

This last statement is quite funny. You, as the Judaizers before you, would keep us bound to the Law which can only bring death (Rom 7:6, 2 Cor 3:4-6, Rom 8:2-3). And thereby refuse us Christ who is the only way to life and forgiveness.

Wrong again. If you refuse to believe the Testimony of the Son, the wrath of Elohim abides upon you, and twisting the writings of Paul to concoct a different gospel than what both Messiah and Paul preach is not going to save anyone who ignores the Testimony of the Son in the Gospel accounts.

 

[Doug Brents]

No, you were not restating the scripture: you were removing the Logos from the letter and inserting your own logos into it so as to justify what you choose to believe. Moreover, like I explained, why would I say "Yikes" to the scripture? You are just trying to make me look evil either way. You think you have backed me into a no-win situation but anyone else who is willing to see can see that your shenanigans are buffoonerous.

I am not trying to make you look evil, or back you into a corner. This is not about you at all. This is about the Scriptures saying that the Old Covenant was fulfilled, and set aside in favor of the New Covenant in Jesus’ blood. Jesus is our High Priest, but under the Old Covenant He cannot be a priest of any flavor. Under the Old Covenant, Jesus is not able to offer sacrifice, yet He became our sacrifice, once for all.

Death reigned from Adam until Mosheh.
Lol, sorry for your luck.

Yes, spiritual death. Physical death still exists today, as it has since the fall.

It is comic that you deny clear Scripture that says the Old Covenant was removed and a New Covenant established, and then accuse me of having bad luck.

Wrong again. If you refuse to believe the Testimony of the Son, the wrath of Elohim abides upon you, and twisting the writings of Paul to concoct a different gospel than what both Messiah and Paul preach is not going to save anyone who ignores the Testimony of the Son in the Gospel accounts.

I do not refuse the testimony of the Son; I rely on it. I preach and teach the same Gospel that Jesus died for, and Peter, Paul, Barnabas, James, John, and the rest died for. As Scripture so clearly says, if you maintain that we must keep the Old Covenant and the Law of Moses, the Jesus is worthless for you and you must keep every part of the Law perfectly to be right with God. Good luck with that.

 

[daq]

Yes, spiritual death. Physical death still exists today, as it has since the fall.

Yet another confession that refutes your own doctrine. The flesh profits nothing: the Word of the Father is Spirit and Life, the same Word of the Torah which you say is now canceled. This is the reason death reigned from Adam until Mosheh: for he received the Word of the Father by the instrumentality of Angels, and lived, and all those unto whom the Logos of Elohim has come are called Elohim.

Of course it is not about physical death: the flesh profits nothing, (John 6:63), and just as both Meshiah and Paul preach, and has been said several times now: the Torah is spiritual, (Rom 7:14). You cannot cancel what is Spirit: the natural mind cannot please Elohim because it can neither hear nor understand His Word which is Spirit and Life.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yet another confession that refutes your own doctrine. The flesh profits nothing: the Word of the Father is Spirit and Life, the same Word of the Torah which you say is now canceled.

No, Scripture says the Law (Torah) was death but the New Covenant is life in Christ. (2 Cor 3:5-11).
“Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.”
The Old Covenant is the letter, the ministry of death, engraved on stone, ministry of condemnation, what had glory but no longer does, that which fades away.
But the New Covenant is the Spirit which gives life, even more glory, excel in glory, glory that surpasses, that which remains.

Of course it is not about physical death: the flesh profits nothing, (John 6:63), and just as both Meshiah and Paul preach, and has been said several times now: the Torah is spiritual, (Rom 7:14). You cannot cancel what is Spirit: the natural mind cannot please Elohim because it can neither hear nor understand His Word which is Spirit and Life.

Yes, The Torah came from the Spirit, but, as has already been noted, Scripture also says that it came from Mt Sinai and is death. And as quoted above, Torah is a ministry of death, engraved on stone, of condemnation, what had glory but no longer does, that which fades away. Torah is no longer the Law that we are responsible to keep.

 

[daq]

No, Scripture says the Law (Torah) was death but the New Covenant is life in Christ. (2 Cor 3:5-11).
“Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.”
The Old Covenant is the letter, the ministry of death, engraved on stone, ministry of condemnation, what had glory but no longer does, that which fades away.
But the New Covenant is the Spirit which gives life, even more glory, excel in glory, glory that surpasses, that which remains.

Yes, The Torah came from the Spirit, but, as has already been noted, Scripture also says that it came from Mt Sinai and is death. And as quoted above, Torah is a ministry of death, engraved on stone, of condemnation, what had glory but no longer does, that which fades away. Torah is no longer the Law that we are responsible to keep.

Your choice in how you read and perceive the Torah is just that: your choice.
Please review Reply #603 and choose Life.

This I have not only as a commandment from the Torah, from Mosheh, but also from the Master himself: for anyone who guards the Logos of the Master will never see death. You see death only because that is what you have chosen to see. I have chosen Life, and this I learned from the Testimony of the Master before I ever saw and understood it from and in the Torah, for, as has been said multiple times now, he expounds the Torah, Prophets, and Writings in his Testimony in the Gospel accounts.

 

[Doug Brents]

Your choice in how you read and perceive the Torah is just that: your choice.
Please review Reply #603 and choose Life.

I went back to #103 as requested, but I see nothing there that has not already been covered. Yes, Torah is good for insight into God’s nature and His dealings with man. It is good for giving an understanding of what sin is and how God responds to it in man. But as has been pointed out repeatedly in Scripture, the Old Covenant along with Torah and the Law of Moses were all replaced with the New Covenant; not RENEWED (as the covenant with Abraham was renewed with Issac, and again with Jacob), but a completely NEW Covenant that replaces the Old.

This I have not only as a commandment from the Torah, from Mosheh, but also from the Master himself: for anyone who guards the Logos of the Master will never see death. You see death only because that is what you have chosen to see. I have chosen Life, and this I learned from the Testimony of the Master before I ever saw and understood it from and in the Torah, for, as has been said multiple times now, he expounds the Torah, Prophets, and Writings in his Testimony in the Gospel accounts.

I see what the Scripture says. I don’t read into the Scripture what I want to be there. I have the LIFE of Christ in me now, as do my family. My late wife had the Spirit of Christ (the “logos of the master), yet she died. She died physically, yet she lives spiritually (and I know I will see her again in Jesus’ arms).

Yes, Jesus expands on and incorporates much of the Torah in His New Covenant. But not all of it. And what He does incorporate He makes more personal, more internal rather than just actions. But that is part of what makes it the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant that is valid and in force today.

 

[daq]

I went back to #103 as requested, but I see nothing there that has not already been covered. Yes, Torah is good for insight into God’s nature and His dealings with man. It is good for giving an understanding of what sin is and how God responds to it in man. But as has been pointed out repeatedly in Scripture, the Old Covenant along with Torah and the Law of Moses were all replaced with the New Covenant; not RENEWED (as the covenant with Abraham was renewed with Issac, and again with Jacob), but a completely NEW Covenant that replaces the Old.

I see what the Scripture says. I don’t read into the Scripture what I want to be there. I have the LIFE of Christ in me now, as do my family. My late wife had the Spirit of Christ (the “logos of the master), yet she died. She died physically, yet she lives spiritually (and I know I will see her again in Jesus’ arms).

Yes, Jesus expands on and incorporates much of the Torah in His New Covenant. But not all of it. And what He does incorporate He makes more personal, more internal rather than just actions. But that is part of what makes it the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant that is valid and in force today.

I did not write #103, I wrote #603, so now I have no idea whether that is a typo on your part or whether or not you even read the correct post.

Deuteronomy 30:4 KJV
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

Deuteronomy 30:4 LXX (Brenton Translation)
4 If thy dispersion be from one end of heaven to the other, thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, [Matthew 24:31] and thence will the Lord thy God take thee.

Deuteronomy 30:5-20 KJV
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, [Romans 2:28-29] and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, [Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Matthew 22:37-38, Mark 12:29-30] that thou mayest live [Luke 10:25-28].
7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
9 And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [Romans 10:6]
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [Romans 10:7]
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. [Romans 10:8]

Deuteronomy 30:14 OG LXX
14 εστιν σου εγγυς το ρημα σφοδρα εν τω στοματι σου και εν τη καρδια σου και εν ταις χερσιν σου αυτο ποιειν

το ρημα = the word (rhema)

Romans 10:8 ASV
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach:

Romans 10:8 N/A-W/H
8 αλλα τι λεγει εγγυς σου το ρημα εστιν εν τω στοματι σου και εν τη καρδια σου τουτ εστιν το ρημα της πιστεως ο κηρυσσομεν

τουτ εστιν το ρημα της πιστεως ο κηρυσσομεν
this is the rhema-word of the faith which we preach (re: Deuteronomy 30:14).

The rhema-word of the faith which Paul preaches comes directly from the Torah.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20 KJV
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

See that you have set before you in the Torah, and even all of the scripture, the two ways: one is to see, hear, interpret, understand, and walk according to the Spirit: the other is to see, hear, interpret, understand, and walk according the flesh and the natural mind of the natural man. One is life and good, the other is death and evil: one is blessing, and the other is cursing. Life and death, and blessing and cursing: both are set before you as you read, and study, and see, and hear: therefore choose life, that you may live. And again, if not, sorry for your luck.

 

[Doug Brents]

I did not write #103, I wrote #603, so now I have no idea whether that is a typo on your part or whether or not you even read the correct post.

My apologies, I mistyped. I read #603, and found nothing in it that would indicate that the Old Covenant was not just that, the OLD COVENANT.

Deuteronomy 30:4 KJV
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

Deuteronomy 30:4 LXX (Brenton Translation)
4 If thy dispersion be from one end of heaven to the other, thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, [Matthew 24:31] and thence will the Lord thy God take thee.

Deuteronomy 30:5-20 KJV
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, [Romans 2:28-29] and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, [Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Matthew 22:37-38, Mark 12:29-30] that thou mayest live [Luke 10:25-28].
7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
9 And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [Romans 10:6]
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? [Romans 10:7]
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. [Romans 10:8]

Deuteronomy 30:14 OG LXX
14 εστιν σου εγγυς το ρημα σφοδρα εν τω στοματι σου και εν τη καρδια σου και εν ταις χερσιν σου αυτο ποιειν

το ρημα = the word (rhema)

Romans 10:8 ASV
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach:

Romans 10:8 N/A-W/H
8 αλλα τι λεγει εγγυς σου το ρημα εστιν εν τω στοματι σου και εν τη καρδια σου τουτ εστιν το ρημα της πιστεως ο κηρυσσομεν

τουτ εστιν το ρημα της πιστεως ο κηρυσσομεν
this is the rhema-word of the faith which we preach (re: Deuteronomy 30:14).

The rhema-word of the faith which Paul preaches comes directly from the Torah.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20 KJV
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

See that you have set before you in the Torah, and even all of the scripture, the two ways: one is to see, hear, interpret, understand, and walk according to the Spirit: the other is to see, hear, interpret, understand, and walk according the flesh and the natural mind of the natural man. One is life and good, the other is death and evil: one is blessing, and the other is cursing. Life and death, and blessing and cursing: both are set before you as you read, and study, and see, and hear: therefore choose life, that you may live. And again, if not, sorry for your luck.

Read that again. The choice God is offering in Deuteronomy is not that of flesh or spirit. The choice is to obey the Law (life, blessing) or disobey it (death, curse). Yes, in its day, the Law was good. It moved man from each family listening (or mor often not listening) to God’s voice directly speaking to the Patriarchs, to having a single Law for all families to follow. But the New Covenant takes us a step further. It gives us Christ, and the law written on our hearts.

I find it interesting that you continuously point to this passage, and ignore the passages I have quoted that say clearly that the Old Covenant has been removed and replaced (not renewed) with the New Covenant.

 

[daq]

My apologies, I mistyped. I read #603, and found nothing in it that would indicate that the Old Covenant was not just that, the OLD COVENANT.

Read that again. The choice God is offering is not that of flesh or spirit in Deuteronomy. The choice is to obey the Law (life, blessing) or disobey it (death, curse). Yes, in its day, the Law was good. It moved man from each family listening (or mor often not listening) to God’s voice directly speaking to the Patriarchs, to having a single Law for all families to follow. But the New Covenant takes us a step further. It gives us Christ, and the law written on our hearts.

That's your opinion based on your own choice in how you see, hear, and perceive what the scripture says.

I find it interesting that you continuously point to this passage, and ignore the passages I have quoted that say clearly that the Old Covenant has been removed and replaced (not renewed) with the New Covenant.

Obviously you and I do not choose to understand those passages in the same way.
We can go through them one at time if you wish.

EDIT: PS: On second thoughts, if you wish to go over all of your scripture passages one by one, which you say support your beliefs, we should probably do that in your own new thread.

 

[Doug Brents]

Obviously you and I do not choose to understand those passages in the same way.
We can go through them one at time if you wish.

I have already quoted the passages here (a few of them at least) and you chose to completely ignore Scripture in favor of your own interpretation.

EDIT: PS: On second thoughts, if you wish to go over all of your scripture passages one by one, which you say support your beliefs, we should probably do that in your own new thread.

If you want to discuss them in another thread, that is fine with me.

 

[daq]

I have already quoted the passages here (a few of them at least) and you chose to completely ignore Scripture in favor of your own interpretation.

Often times questions and statements get answered while the person complaining that his or her questions and statements were not answered simply isn't willing to see the scripture logic in the answers given. Other times people quote mine cherry-picked verses from the scripture and quote them out of context to make it sound like the passage supports what they believe and are preaching. This doesn't mean every falsehood needs to be answered directly, especially when the point is proven to be incorrect with other points that are shown to be true from the scripture while not directly addressing the falsehood.

Now therefore what about all the scripture and scripture logic that has been presented here in this thread which you yourself have either ignored or outright rejected? You apparently imagine yourself to be rejecting my logic: we disagree on that too.

 

[Doug Brents]

Often times questions and statements get answered while the person complaining that his or her questions and statements were not answered simply isn't willing to see the scripture logic in the answers given. Other times people quote mine cherry-picked verses from the scripture and quote them out of context to make it sound like the passage supports what they believe and are preaching. This doesn't mean every falsehood needs to be answered directly, especially when the point is proven to be incorrect with other points that are shown to be true from the scripture while not directly addressing the falsehood.

Now therefore what about all the scripture and scripture logic that has been presented here in this thread which you yourself have either ignored or outright rejected? You apparently imagine yourself to be rejecting my logic: we disagree on that too.

Statements from the Old Covenant about the Old Covenant’s value are irrelevant in the face of New Covenant statements of the Old Covenant’s termination. Yes, I reject wholeheartedly the idea that we are still slaves to the Law of Moses, because that is what Scripture says.

Yes, I can start a new thread with all of the passages (in context) that tell us the Old Covenant is no longer binding on us today. I will work on that tomorrow. I hope to see your comments there.

 

[daq]

Statements from the Old Covenant about the Old Covenant’s value are irrelevant in the face of New Covenant statements of the Old Covenant’s termination. Yes, I reject wholeheartedly the idea that we are still slaves to the Law of Moses, because that is what Scripture says.

Yes, I can start a new thread with all of the passages (in context) that tell us the Old Covenant is no longer binding on us today. I will work on that tomorrow. I hope to see your comments there.

Do as you will, but just some small advice: please try not to project your opinions onto others so much. I don't see anyone around here claiming to be a "slave to the Law of Moses" and I have certainly not said any such thing myself. Apparently you still do not understand: knowing the true understanding of the Torah is freedom from the old man interpretations of the Pharisees to which you yourself still hold. The only real difference is that you put your trust in the Pharisee interpretations of the Torah so that you can cancel it instead of trying to walk in it accordingly because you know you can do no such thing. Moreover, in doing this, you deny the teachings of the Master in the Gospel accounts which overturn their handwritten ordinances, dogmas, and decrees, as has already been shown herein.

 

[Leaf473]

Glad you got another phone and made it back online. : )

Peter's remarks in the vision of Acts 10 show that he did not understand the Master that way in the Mark passage.

Acts 10:13-14 KJV
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Peter does not yet understand the supernal nature of the vision at this point: this shows that he responded according to the flesh in the vision, physical killing and eating the literal-physical flesh of literal-physical animals. And according to the statement, even at this time so long after the Mark passage in question, he had still never eaten anything considered common or unclean.

What does that tell us about the Mark 7:1-16 passage? Peter himself, who was there, did not understand that discourse to be saying what modern preachers like to say it says.

That's right, Peter had a lot of struggles, didn't he?

We know that in Jerusalem at a later date "there are many thousands among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law."

But that is remarkable only if it is not true in other places.

Psalm 79
So we, your people and sheep of your pasture,
will give you thanks forever.
We will praise you forever, to all generations.

 

[daq]

That's right, Peter had a lot of struggles, didn't he?

We know that in Jerusalem at a later date "there are many thousands among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law."

But that is remarkable only if it is not true in other places.

Psalm 79
So we, your people and sheep of your pasture,
will give you thanks forever.
We will praise you forever, to all generations.

And I surely believe Peter over what modern preachers preach about the Mark passage.

 

[Leaf473]

And I surely believe Peter over what modern preachers preach about the Mark passage.

I believe Peter, too, keeping in mind that he was learning and growing, as were all of the Apostles.

"You yourselves know how it is an unlawful thing for a man who is a Jew to join himself or come to one of another nation."
Acts 10