Would you ever vote for a lawmaker who supports murdering babies?

[GodLovesCats]

No one in an abortion clinic is God!

What makes you think I ever said a miscarriage (which is 100% natural and can only be caused by God) and an abortion are exactly the same thing?

 

[Derf]

Then those who require an abortion due to medical reasons cannot get one if abortion is no longer legal for any reason.

|Are you good with the mother dying when it could be avoided by aborting the fetus?

There is also the other issue that there are more issues than just abortion to look at a candidate for. A one-issue voter is a short-sighted voter as far as I am concerned.

Thanks for the fine example of "bait and switch." Are you really concerned that doctors would have to let a mother die because of a failing pregnancy? No, but "support abortion" doesn't mean there would never be an abortion. In fact miscarriages are often called "spontaneous abortions" by doctors. But no one supports those except sick, demented freaks.

 

[Derf]

Again, what the Bible calls murder is not what the states call murder because America is not a Christian nation. All Christians must always remember regardless of what the Bible says only a Christian theocracy can force any pregnant girls or women to believe and obey it. All Christians must know, a s taught in American history and government classes, the United States is not one of them.. Therefore, no Christians have any reason at all to use the Bible as their basis for calling abortion murder in places where it is still legal. You can hate all abortions but you can't call it murder just because the Bible says so where it is legally protected.

Except that we showed you where California actually calls the killing of a preborn baby "murder".

Everyone in society who pays county and state taxes to publicly-owned organizations that foster and adopt children is taking responsibility for unwanted babies.

Then why are you saying we don't take responsibility for unwanted babies? Is it because you don't understand English?

 

[Derf]

What makes you think I ever said a miscarriage (which is 100% natural and can only be caused by God) and an abortion are exactly the same thing?

Miscarriages can be caused by anyone and in various ways. Tripping a pregnant woman might cause her to miscarry.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Except that we showed you where California actually calls the killing of a preborn baby "murder."

It is impossible to murder a "preborn baby." Once the unborn human is murdered, it cannot be born because it is dead.

California law says that? Last thing I read was it passed a law that can increase the number of abortions allowed up to a certain fetal age.

BTW I was thinking of Vermont an d Michigan. Their voters passed constitutional amendment proposals to protect every pregnant citizen's "reproductive rights" statewide. There also is what happened earlier in Kansas: voters saying no to a constitutional amendment that would take the mother's rights away, even if she was raped.

Then why are you saying we don't take responsibility for unwanted babies? Is it because you don't understand English?

You were telling me society has no responsibility for unwanted babies. I was correcting you.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Miscarriages can be caused by anyone and in various ways. Tripping a pregnant woman might cause her to miscarry.

If a zygote failing to implant on the uterine wall is not a miscarriage,p what is it?

You have made it extremely clear your belief is pregnancy begins at fertilization and human zygotes are babies. If these two claims are correct, most miscarriages are caused by God alone, nobody and nothing else.

 

[Isilwen]

Thanks for the fine example of "bait and switch."

No bait and switch. My concern has always been for the mother who has to abort for medical reasons.

Are you really concerned that doctors would have to let a mother die because of a failing pregnancy?

I am! If abortions are completely illegal, and no provisions for saving the life of a mother, the majority of the doctors I know would uphold the law because they are required to.

No, but "support abortion" doesn't mean there would never be an abortion

And you are certain of that?

In fact miscarriages are often called "spontaneous abortions" by doctors.

You are correct, but I am not speaking of miscarriages that are done by the human body spontaneously.

But no one supports those except sick, demented freaks.

Must we name call?

 

[Postvieww]

I certainly can.

God takes away hundreds of millions of ihuman lives every year. The #1 cause of death worldwide is miscarriages if zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses are included.

God does not work at an abortion clinic killing babies on the whims of human selfishness. The very lowest percentage of abortions are because of rape and to save the life of the mother. Yet that is the frequent argument used to justify the killing of babies in the womb. The larger percentage of abortions are among black women.
WHY DO ABORTIONS OCCUR?
• In 2004, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women (https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/tables/370305/3711005t3.pdf) from nine different abortion clinics across the country. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.
• Percentage
• Reason
• <0.5%
• Victim of rape (Common Abortion Fallacies)
• 3%
• Fetal health problems (Common Abortion Fallacies)
• 4%
• Physical health problems (Is Abortion Ever Justified?)
•
4%
•
Would interfere with education or career
•
7%
•
Not mature enough to raise a child
•
8%
•
Don't want to be a single mother
•
19%
•
Done having children
•
23%
•
Can't afford a baby (Common Abortion Fallacies)
•
25%
•
Not ready for a child
•
6%
•
Other

 

[Derf]

California law says that?

What The California Fetal Homicide Law Does and Doesn't Cover

Abortion is generally legal in California, but controversially, when done by someone else, feticide is considered murder under state law.

vistacriminallaw.com

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

People who vote for Democrats vote for them because they care about the poor (those with any brains).

But if people never see their first birthday, it doesn't really matter at all if you feed them when they are born.

 

[Lost Witness]

I've thought about politics since becoming a Christian and This verse has come to mind, "Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil."?
Although to be Fair I've never voted as it just doesn't sit right with me?

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Democrats (liberals, some are Republicans) only care about reelection, money and power. Liberals destroying this economy will only make more poor people. If you want to see how much liberals really care about the poor go to the area near Pelosi 's house and get back to me on how she has helped the poor while becoming g filthy rich. It is a total false premise that Democrats are for the poor they are for themselves and keeping the poor dependent on Government to secure votes from those that fall for the lie.

The American people are totally demoralized by our two-party political system, but they don't do anything about it. I said why people VOTE Democrats, not what Democrats actually DO. Why? Because all the Rep and Dems do is do slander campaigns, and the American public is too stupid to vote third party.

 

[Lost Witness]

Because all the Rep and Dems do is do slander campaigns

shouldn't vote for either since evil is still evil continually?
may Not be a very intelligent guy but As far it seems,
Politics are of the WORLD and not of GOD, Nor do they bring him Glory?
these things are a distraction and take us further from the LORD?

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

shouldn't vote for either since evil is still evil continually?
may Not be a very intelligent guy but As far it seems,
Politics are of the WORLD and not of GOD, Nor do they bring him Glory?
these things are a distraction and take us further from the LORD?

I think we should be involved with politics, just don't put it at the same level as your faith (which many Christians fail at, sadly).

I still think we should vote if we can. It's an immense privilege that we even get to vote when you have countries like North Korea and China about.

I voted for the Republicans in the 2022 elections because there was literally no other choice unless I wanted to vote for potheads (literally). I CANNOT vote for the Democrats because they have zero common sense and are going to be the demise of our country if left unchecked. And I think abortion is hands down the most important issue there could possibly be at this point. So the only option I had was the Republicans (which I actually decry some of their other policies, but I digress).

 

[Derf]

No bait and switch. My concern has always been for the mother who has to abort for medical reasons.

"medical reasons" is very vague, and can include elective type conditions, such as "I feel depressed, therefore I need an abortion."

I am! If abortions are completely illegal, and no provisions for saving the life of a mother, the majority of the doctors I know would uphold the law because they are required to.

If you've read through my posts, you'll see that I believe the life of the mother should be protected, but usually that doesn't require killing the baby, but may require removing the baby from the womb. This action might result in the baby dying, but should be avoided, if possible. Remember that both the life of the mother and the life of the baby are precious, and need to be preserved, if possible.

And you are certain of that?

I reread my statement, and it might be confusing. My point is that a person that "supports abortion" is usually supportive of abortion in a varying number of circumstances, to include abortions allowed for any reason, for reason of rape and incest, abortions at any time in the pregnancy, or abortions only early in the pregnancy. My contention is that none of those are consitutional, which does not allow for the taking of a human life without reason and due process. "Reason" can't include "because I am more powerful than the baby, and therefore I can decide that the baby should die when I choose."

You are correct, but I am not speaking of miscarriages that are done by the human body spontaneously.



Must we name call?

Are you suggesting there is room in this discussion for people that desire miscarriages? For instance, let's say that a friend of mine is pregnant, and I really want her to miscarry. Wouldn't say that is a sick state of mind?

 

[Derf]

If a zygote failing to implant on the uterine wall is not a miscarriage,p what is it?

This is the definition you get from American Heritage Dictionary:
The spontaneous, premature expulsion of a nonviable embryo or fetus from the uterus.
But "spontaneous" is subjective. For instance, as someone else pointed out, there are various ways someone can cause such an event, like falling down while pregnant, drinking too much while pregnant, taking certain drugs while pregnant, riding on a roller coaster, etc. A third person (not the expectant mother) might be able to induce a miscarriage, too, like taking a pregnant person on a rough, offroad vehicle ride, or punching her in the stomach.

You have made it extremely clear your belief is pregnancy begins at fertilization and human zygotes are babies. If these two claims are correct, most miscarriages are caused by God alone, nobody and nothing else.

Obvious not, if you'll read the above.

Since you "liked" my post showing that California, at a minimum, calls some instances of feticide "murder", can you then admit that your position that killing babies in the womb can "never" be called "murder" is neither an American nor a biblical position?

 

[GodLovesCats]

This is the definition you get from American Heritage Dictionary:
The spontaneous, premature expulsion of a nonviable embryo or fetus from the uterus.
But "spontaneous" is subjective. For instance, as someone else pointed out, there are various ways someone can cause such an event, like falling down while pregnant, drinking too much while pregnant, taking certain drugs while pregnant, riding on a roller coaster, etc. A third person (not the expectant mother) might be able to induce a miscarriage, too, like taking a pregnant person on a rough, offroad vehicle ride, or punching her in the stomach.

According to Medline Plus:

Most miscarriages are caused by chromosome problems that make it impossible for the baby to develop. In rare cases, these problems are related to the mother's or father's genes.

Miscarriage: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

A miscarriage is the spontaneous loss of a fetus before the 20th week of pregnancy. Pregnancy losses after the 20th week are called stillbirths. Miscarriage is a naturally occurring event, unlike medication

medlineplus.gov

Obvious not, if you'll read the above.

Since you "liked" my post showing that California, at a minimum, calls some instances of feticide "murder", can you then admit that your position that killing babies in the womb can "never" be called "murder" is neither an American nor a biblical position?

I said abortion can never be calle4d murder in places where it is legal.

 

[Derf]

According to Medline Plus:

Miscarriage: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

A miscarriage is the spontaneous loss of a fetus before the 20th week of pregnancy. Pregnancy losses after the 20th week are called stillbirths. Miscarriage is a naturally occurring event, unlike medication

medlineplus.gov

Which is correct--MOST. But you said ALL. This is called the "part to whole fallacy".

I said abortion can never be calle4d murder in places where it is legal.

What you said is that there is no baby in the womb. Then you said there is no person in the womb. Then you said killing a baby in the womb could never be called murder. Now you are saying abortion can never be called murder where it is legal. Your story keeps changing. And a changing story means that you lied in the earlier versions, and may be lying now, since your integrity is destroyed by a single lie, unless you repent.

Is lying ok? Is it morally acceptable to lie to protect abortion?

By the way, lying is often practiced by abortionists, trying to maintain their lucrative practice. First they say, "It's not a baby, it's just a blob of cells." Then they say, "It's not a baby, it's a fetus." They used to say, "it's not human, it is still going through a recapitulation of earlier evolutionary stages." I don't know if they still use that one. All are intended to take the attention off the fact that they are killing an innocent, live human being. And they know, just as you know, that God will judge them for taking an innocent life. They lie to justify their sin, just as you have been doing. You should repent.

 

[GodLovesCats]

What you said is that there is no baby in the womb. Then you said there is no person in the womb. Then you said killing a baby in the womb could never be called murder. Now you are saying abortion can never be called murder where it is legal. Your story keeps changing. And a changing story means that you lied in the earlier versions, and may be lying now, since your integrity is destroyed by a single lie, unless you repent.

Is lying ok? Is it morally acceptable to lie to protect abortion?

By the way, lying is often practiced by abortionists, trying to maintain their lucrative practice. First they say, "It's not a baby, it's just a blob of cells." Then they say, "It's not a baby, it's a fetus." They used to say, "it's not human, it is still going through a recapitulation of earlier evolutionary stages." I don't know if they still use that one. All are intended to take the attention off the fact that they are killing an innocent, live human being. And they know, just as you know, that God will judge them for taking an innocent life. They lie to justify their sin, just as you have been doing. You should repent.

Sometimes I call it a baby if I am talking about the offspring's life both before and after birth in the same sentence. I also use quotes around the word "baby" to acknowledge the intended reader is unwilling to use the medical terms zygote, embryo, and fetus. So you may want to look a little bit at the context of my posts sometime.

I have never been one to say an unborn human is not humans, a cancer, a parasite, or part of the mother. The worst description I have used is "a clump of cells" in reference to the stages before any tissues have been created - and you will not even find that phrase in my recent posts.

 

[Isilwen]

"medical reasons" is very vague, and can include elective type conditions, such as "I feel depressed, therefore I need an abortion."

Not a good enough medical reason for me. If it helps any, I have never been for abortion being used for birth control.

If you've read through my posts, you'll see that I believe the life of the mother should be protected, but usually that doesn't require killing the baby, but may require removing the baby from the womb. This action might result in the baby dying, but should be avoided, if possible. Remember that both the life of the mother and the life of the baby are precious, and need to be preserved, if possible.

I am for saving the mother's life above that of the unborn child when her life is at risk. If there is a chance that the fetus could survive, then by all means try, but if it puts the mother's life in danger, then that is a no from me. The mother's life comes first.

My point is that a person that "supports abortion" is usually supportive of abortion in a varying number of circumstances, to include abortions allowed for any reason, for reason of rape and incest, abortions at any time in the pregnancy, or abortions only early in the pregnancy.

I do not support abortion for any reason. I am iffy about rape and incest as I understand both sides of the coin. Anytime during the pregnancy, if the life of the mother is in danger, yes.

I have seven children. Their two mothers and I never discussed abortion as it was not something we would do. If it came to where their life was in danger, then we would have discussed it then. Thankfully, with my fiance, we don't have to worry about that when we are married, as I am snipped and she is on birth control to control her periods.

My contention is that none of those are consitutional, which does not allow for the taking of a human life without reason and due process. "Reason" can't include "because I am more powerful than the baby, and therefore I can decide that the baby should die when I choose."

My contention is that it needs to be protected for even the minuscule percentage of women that have to make the decision because their life is in danger.

Are you suggesting there is room in this discussion for people that desire miscarriages? For instance, let's say that a friend of mine is pregnant, and I really want her to miscarry. Wouldn't say that is a sick state of mind?

Since I have never heard of that before, I would not name-call. I tend not to name-call anyway as I do not think that is becoming of a Christian.