Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

[Bob S]

Hi SabbathBlessings,

This quote below came to my mind when discussing with another poster on this thread. I caught him in two blatant errors. Instead of acknowledging the errors he just restated them and set them back out again

While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light. 2 MCP 672.2​

People are tenacious in clinging to their doubts. Even should you be able to get them to release one hook of doubt they immediately put up 3 more.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Hi spark, I keep asking, but not one observer of the old covenant Sabbath, given only to the Israelites, will answer where in all of scripture does God demand or even ask Christians and/or Gentiles to keep the old covenant, given only to Israel, Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi SabbathBlessings,

This quote below came to my mind when discussing with another poster on this thread. I caught him in two blatant errors. Instead of acknowledging the errors he just restated them and set them back out again

While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light. 2 MCP 672.2​

People are tenacious in clinging to their doubts. Even should you be able to get them to release one hook of doubt they immediately put up 3 more.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

It’s usually the case with the Sabbath arguements, instead of addressing the scripture they just go to the next scripture taken out of context.

Yes, its sad and its really strange to me why as Christians people would not want to keep the Sabbath. I have come to the conclusion it is becuase of our time. This is the only commandment that demands our time and most people prefer to do what they want with their time, perhaps not realizing that God owns all of our time and only asks us to give back one day a week, on the Sabbath. He owns all of our money and only asks for 10% of it back. We are nothing without God and if we love Him, we should keep His commandments and its meant to be a spiritual blessing for us.

God bless!

 

[Cornelius8L]

It seems like you missed the whole moral of the story and not everyone died eating the manna, some did because they also disobeyed God in other areas. Ezekiel 20:13. John 6:63 does not say Jesus came to change the seventh day Sabbath and you’re reading that into the scriptures. The Holy Spirit wrote the scriptures so is not in conflict with the commandments of God. Jesus taught magnify means to make greater not change/destroy and He we are told not to change one word. Matthew 5:17-30 Proverbs 30:5-6 and we are told not to add or subtract to the commandments Deuteronomy 4:2 Jesus teaches we should obey the commandments over mans rules. Matthew 15:3-9

The safer bet is always obeying God the way He asks in my opinion, but God gives us free will.

Jesus was not talking about the moral of the story concerning manna. He was talking about Him being the new manna. Also, I was saying if the manna stored in the ark has changed/uplifted into Jesus, the TEN commandments should change/uplift as well (2 Corinthians 3:7-11). I believe you are well aware we say we magnify the Sabbath commandment the way we observe (with biblical references), not destroying the Sabbath. This is the pattern of truth explained by the Apostles, in which some twisted Hebrews 4:1-11 by rearranging its reading sequence and denying the definition of Romans 14:5-6. The Pharisees were also playing safe, keeping many traditions, but they fail for not understanding the scripture and the power of God (Matthew 22:29).

 

[Cornelius8L]

Here are some clear biblical facts about Sabbath Commandments,

• About breaking the Sabbath Commandment (as a priest):
  • Our High Priest Jesus confirmed all priests break the Sabbath by default (Matthew 12:5). In other words, God instructs us to break the godly finger-written Sabbath Commandment if we were priests in OT. Imagine what will be our punishment if we (the priests) do not break the godly finger-written Sabbath Commandment.
  • If all forms of works are “work,” may it be secular or divine, both God and Jesus have broken the Sabbath (John 5:16-18, Psalms 89:9, Matthew 5:45). Jesus acknowledged it and did not deny He worked during Sabbath as per the author’s record (yet He was innocent because He is the High Priest, Matthew 12:5)
  • The Sabbath commandment will not judge us (Colossians 2:16-17) since we revere God 24/7 like a priest, and our body is His temple (1 Corinthians 3:16) at any given time.
• About the change/uplift of the Sabbath “Day” Commandment (2 Corinthians 3:7-8):
  • Hebrews 4:1-11 by its context. No one should twist the context by simply rearranging its reading sequence. Twisting the words of God is rebelling against Him.
  • “Special day for the Lord (Romans 14:5-6)” includes the seventh day each week, as well as those mentioned in Lev 23, unless the seventh day was not special to the Christians in Rome.
• No next day in heaven (Revelation 22:5), only “Today,” if worshipping in heaven is a reference point.
  • If pre-cross and post-cross affect the definition of Isaiah’s writing mentioned in posts #1389 and #1491, it would also affect Ezekiel’s, Ezra’s, and many others in OT.
• No salvation-related instruction was given concerning NT Saturday.
  • Jesus and the Apostles went to the temple to teach because the people were lost even though they gathered and the one in Moses’ seat wanted to kill them (Matthew 23:2) - these people can never be One Body. Jesus and the Apostles were not setting an example to go to the church but discussing/fighting for the truth where people gathered. Remote assembly is also acceptable (Colossians 2:5).
  • Everyone is connected even remotely as One body by Jesus holding us together (John 17:23). Saying physical gathering to achieve One body is limiting the power of God, moreover by the action of the flesh.
  • Imposing unnecessary burdens is not to God’s liking (Matthew 23:4). Nowhere in NT says not going to church is a sin. We can practice it, but it cannot be a checkbox for salvation.

 

[Cornelius8L]

I might as well say this. As Romans 14:5-6 mentioned, we generally do not comment much against those who want to maintain the Saturday or Sunday worship as everyone should be fully convinced in his own mind. But why must the one who observes a special day pass judgment on those who consider every day alike? The Apostle who lays the foundation (1 Corinthians 3:10-11) will not accept anything contrary to what is written (Galatians 1:8-9).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here are some clear biblical facts about Sabbath Commandments,

• About breaking the Sabbath Commandment (as a priest):
  • Our High Priest Jesus confirmed all priests break the Sabbath by default (Matthew 12:5). In other words, God instructs us to break the godly finger-written Sabbath Commandment if we were priests in OT. Imagine what will be our punishment if we (the priests) do not break the godly finger-written Sabbath Commandment.
  • If all forms of works are “work,” may it be secular or divine, both God and Jesus have broken the Sabbath (John 5:16-18, Psalms 89:9, Matthew 5:45). Jesus acknowledged it and did not deny He worked during Sabbath as per the author’s record (yet He was innocent because He is the High Priest, Matthew 12:5)
  • The Sabbath commandment will not judge us (Colossians 2:16-17) since we revere God 24/7 like a priest, and our body is His temple (1 Corinthians 3:16) at any given time.
• About the change/uplift of the Sabbath “Day” Commandment (2 Corinthians 3:7-8):
  • Hebrews 4:1-11 by its context. No one should twist the context by simply rearranging its reading sequence. Twisting the words of God is rebelling against Him.
  • “Special day for the Lord (Romans 14:5-6)” includes the seventh day each week, as well as those mentioned in Lev 23, unless the seventh day was not special to the Christians in Rome.
• No next day in heaven (Revelation 22:5), only “Today,” if worshipping in heaven is a reference point.
  • If pre-cross and post-cross affect the definition of Isaiah’s writing mentioned in posts #1389 and #1491, it would also affect Ezekiel’s, Ezra’s, and many others in OT.
• No salvation-related instruction was given concerning NT Saturday.
  • Jesus and the Apostles went to the temple to teach because the people were lost even though they gathered and the one in Moses’ seat wanted to kill them (Matthew 23:2) - these people can never be One Body. Jesus and the Apostles were not setting an example to go to the church but discussing/fighting for the truth where people gathered. Remote assembly is also acceptable (Colossians 2:5).
  • Everyone is connected even remotely as One body by Jesus holding us together (John 17:23). Saying physical gathering to achieve One body is limiting the power of God, moreover by the action of the flesh.
  • Imposing unnecessary burdens is not to God’s liking (Matthew 23:4). Nowhere in NT says not going to church is a sin. We can practice it, but it cannot be a checkbox for salvation.

All these ‘facts’ yet not one scripture that says the Sabbath is no longer a commandment and we no longer have to keep the Sabbath commandment the way God asked.


Speaking of facts, here are 60 facts about the Sabbath taken from scripture

• After working the first six days of the week in creating this earth, the great God rested on the seventh day. (Genesis 2:1.3.)

• This stamped that day as God's rest day, or Sabbath day, as Sabbath day means rest day. To illustrate: When a person is born on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. So when God rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath, day.

• Therefore the seventh day must always be God's Sabbath day. Can you change your birthday from the day on which you were born to one on which you were not born? No. Neither can you change God's rest day to a day on which He did not rest. Hence the seventh day is still God's Sabbath day.

• The Creator blessed the seventh day. (Genesis 2:3.)

• He sanctified the seventh day. (Exodus 20:11.)

• He made it the Sabbath day in the Garden of Eden. (Genesis 2:1-3.)

• It was made before the fall; hence it is not a type; for types were not introduced till after the fall.

• Jesus says it was made for man (Mark 2:27), that is, for the race, as the word man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentile as well as for the Jew.

• It is a memorial of creation. (Exodus 20:11; 31:17.) Every time we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we commemorate that grand event.

• It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3.)

• Hence through him, as our representative, to all nations. (Acts 17:26.)

• It is' not a Jewish institution, for it was made 2,300 years before ever there was a Jew.

• The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Men should be cautious how they stigmatize God's holy rest day.

• Evident reference is made to the Sabbath and the seven-day week all, through the patriarchal age. (Genesis 2:l-3; 8:10,12; 29:27,28.etc.)

• It was a part of God's law before Sinai. (Exodus 16:4, 27-29.)

• Then God placed it in the heart of His moral law. (Exodus 20:1-17.) Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine precepts, which all admit to be immutable?

• The seventh-day Sabbath was commanded by the voice of the living God. (Deuteronomy 4:12,13.)

• Then He wrote the commandment with His own finger. (Exodus 31:18.)

• He engraved it in the enduring stone, indicating its imperishable nature. (Deuteronomy 5:22.)

• It was sacredly preserved in the ark in the holy of holies. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5.)

• God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most hurrying times. (Exodus 34:21.)

• God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they profaned the Sabbath. (Ezekiel 20:12, 13.)

• It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him from false gods. (Ezekiel 20:20.)

• God promised that Jerusalem should stand forever if the Jews would keep the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:24, 25.)

• He sent them into the Babylonish captivity for breaking it. (Nehemiah 13:18.)

• He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. (Jeremiah 17:27.)

• God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who will keep it. (Isaiah 56:6, 7.)

• This is in the prophecy, which refers wholly to the Christian dispensation. (See Isaiah 56.)

• God has promised to bless all who keep the Sabbath. (Isaiah 56:2.)

• The Lord requires us to call it "honourable". (Isaiah 58:13.) Beware, ye who take delight in calling it the. “old Jewish Sabbath,” “a yoke of bondage,” etc.

• After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down "many generations,” it is to be restored in the last days. (Isaiah 58:12,13.)

• All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.

• When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. (Luke 4:16; John 15:10.) Thus He followed His Father's example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?

• The seventh day is the Lord's Day. (See Revelation 1:10; Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:10.)

• Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), that is, to love and protect it, as the husband is the lord of the wife, to love and cherish her (1 Peter 3:6.)

• He vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed for man's good. (Mark 2:23-28.)

• Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He carefully taught how it should be observed. (Matthew 12:1-13.)

• He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the Sabbath day but what was “lawful” (Matthew 12:12.)

• He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection. (Matthew 24:20.)

• The pious women who had been with Jesus carefully kept the seventh day after His death. (Luke 23:56.)

• Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit' expressly calls it "the Sabbath day,"(Acts 13:14.)

• Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the "Sabbath day" in A.D. 45. (Acts 13:27.) Did not Paul know? Or shall we believe modern teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the Sabbath at the resurrection of Christ?

• Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it the "Sabbath day." (Acts 13:44.)

• The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. (Acts 13:42.)

• In the great Christian council, A.D. 49, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the "sabbath day." (Acts 15:21)

• It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. (Acts 16:13.)

• Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. (Acts 17:2, 3.)

• It was his custom to preach upon that day. (Acts 17:2,3.)

• The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon that day. (See Acts 13:14, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4. 11.)

• There was never any dispute between the Christians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still observed the same day that the Jews did.

• In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not keep it?

• But Paul himself expressly declared that he had kept the law. “Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all." Acts 25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?

• The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-nine times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the Old Testament, “the Sabbath day.”

• Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the Sabbath's being abolished, done away, changed, or anything of the kind.

• God has never given permission to any man to work upon it. Reader, by what authority do you use - the seventh day for common labor?

• No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find one case of that kind, and we will yield the question. Why should modem Christians do differently from Bible Christians?

• There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or sanctification from the seventh day.

• As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. (Isaiah 66:22, 23.)

• The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own finger upon stone at Sinai. (See Exodus 20.) When Jesus began His work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the law. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.” Matthew 5:17

• Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to love God, while at the same time they made void one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of Sunday is only a tradition of men.

 

[Leaf473]

More scriptures about following Paul's example, keeping in mind that chapters and verses are probably a human addition.

1 Corinthians 10
Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no occasion for stumbling, whether to Jews, or to Greeks, or to the assembly of God; even as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of the many, that they may be saved. Be imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.

 

[JulieB67]

All these ‘facts’ yet not one scripture that says the Sabbath is no longer a commandment and we no longer have to keep the Sabbath commandment the way God asked.

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Colossians 2:17 "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Just because you and many others don't take these scriptures to heart doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

You lump his meaning with the rest of the festivals but Paul clearly separates each thing, -meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday (which are the festival days), or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Sabbath in this verse translated back is Sabbaton which is the day of rest from weekly secular avocations. Easily checked out with the KJV and Exhaustive Strong's.

Again, just because you don't accept this scripture doesn't mean the rest of us can't see it for what it is. Yes, there are blood ordinances which were nailed to the cross but Paul is very specific and again, separates these as well. It's not about breaking a commandment it's about Christ fulfilling that commandment. Which clearly coincides with Hebrews 4 and putting our rest in him/Sabbatimos which is a type of heavenly rest. You can come back with it's a "keeping of the Sabbath" but it doesn't change the fact that Sabbatimos is only used one time like this and it's clear we need to be in his rest 24/7, not just one day of the week which was just a shadow of Christ. That is "keeping the Sabbath".When we put our rest in him, we are keeping the commandment to keep the Sabbath Holy. By letting the Holy Spirit dwell in his. That's the great comforter.

It's sad that you are tied to only worshipping him one day a week.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Colossians 2:17 "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Just because you and many others don't take these scriptures to heart doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

You lump his meaning with the rest of the festivals but Paul clearly separates each thing, -meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday (which are the festival days), or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Sabbath in this verse translated back is Sabbaton which is the day of rest from weekly secular avocations. Easily checked out with the KJV and Exhaustive Strong's.

Again, just because you don't accept this scripture doesn't mean the rest of us can see it for what it is. Yes, there are blood ordinances which were nailed to the cross but Paul is very specific and again, separates these as well. It's not about breaking a commandment it's about Christ fulfilling that commandment. Which clearly coincides with Hebrews 4 and putting our rest in him/Sabbatimos which is a type of heavenly rest. You can come back with it's a "keeping of the Sabbath" but it doesn't change the fact that Sabbatimos is only used one time like this and it's clear we need to be in his rest 24/7, not just one day of the week which was just a shadow of Christ. That is "keeping the Sabbath".When we put our rest in him, we are keeping the commandment to keep the Sabbath Holy. By letting the Holy Spirit dwell in his. That's the great comforter.

It's sad that you are tied to only worshipping him one day a week.

Hi Julie,

I think you know full well from our previous conversations that I think we should worship God everyday, so not sure why you would make such an accusation when we have discussed this many times. Worshipping God daily does not delete our moral obligation to obey His commandments.

Anyway, I’ll post this study again for those who are interested and Colossians 2:14-17 is not referring to the Sabbath commandment. There is no scripture in the entire bible that says we can break a commandment of God, so not sure why those are trying to force this to say something’s it’s not. This will get sorted out soon enough and wish you all well in seeking His Word.

Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

Scripture shows ordinances are not commandments and commandments are not ordinances- they are separated.

Most when quoting Colossians 2:16-17 never back up to Colossians 2:14 for some reason which plainly gives the context.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Colossians 2:14:
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way? Absolutely not.
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 31:18
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11

Colossians 2:14 certainly does not fit with the Sabbath commandment so not sure why so many people try to force this to fit despite the facts clearly showing it is not referring to the weekly Sabbath commandment.

Are there other sabbath(s) in scripture called ordinances that would lead us to the correct context of this passage? What does the scripture say?

2 Chronicles 33:8
Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

Moses hand-wrote the ordinances and the hand of Moses is not the same as the finger of God.

Ezekiel 43:18
And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

So what is Colossians 2:14-17 talking about? The sacrificial system in the annual sabbath(s) feast-day ordinances that was used for the forgiveness of sins. These all point to Jesus because He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we turn from sin and through Jesus He can give us a new heart and enables us to keep His commandments through love and faith. John 14:15-18, Romans 3:31. The blood of animals made nothing perfect Hebrews 10, but the blood of Christ can cleanse from all sins, when we turn from sin and walk with Christ in obedience to Him. The annual sacrificial sabbath(s) all came after the fall of man. The seventh day Sabbath was part of Creation Genesis 2:1-3 and was part of God’s perfect plan before the fall of man so it is impossible to be a shadow of anything.

There is no scripture that says we can break the commandments of God. The Sabbath is part of a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 that God placed together and cannot be separated, changed, deleted or removed. Sin is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes right to the 10 to point out sin. Romans 7:7

It’s sad so much energy goes in trying to disprove one of God’s finger-written Ten Commandments instead of just obeying God.

Happy Sabbath!

 

[BobRyan]

Not just the 10, but burnt offerings and sacrifices, too! And in the future, it looks like.

you seem to have lost the point of the text.

 

[BobRyan]

You quoted Is 56:6-8,

Isaiah 56:7 I will bring them to My holy mountain and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on My altar, for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations.”​

I presume you have an explanation for gentile burning offerings and sacrifices in v7. So, I won’t ask.

please do ask --

Is 56:
6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To attend to His service and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps the Sabbath so as not to profane it,
And holds firmly to My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,
“I will yet gather others to them, to those already gathered.”


The liturgy of worship in the OT included animal sacrifices... since Christ had not yet been crucified.

A lot of Christians today will admit to this Bible fact.

No wonder then that we see gentiles worshiping in the house of God - in synagogues "Sabbath after Sabbath" in Acts 13, in Acts 17 and in Acts 18:4

=======================

. But I’m interested to know how you comprehend “My house will be called a house of prayer,” which Jesus quoted in Matthew 21:13.

Matthew 21:13 And He declared to them, "It is written: 'My house will be called a house of prayer.' But you are making it 'a den of robbers.'"​

IN Matt 21 Jesus addresses the bartering and cheating going on the temple court with money changers and those who sold animals for sacrifice at extortion prices - His claim is that Is 56 is making the house of God - a house of prayer for all nations "not just Jews" and they should not be extorting people in the court of the temple because it is a house of prayer... and not just for Jews to pray.

I can't think of any time up to 70 AD when that was true

You may have to think about it for a few more minutes in that case... start by reading Acts 13, 17 and 18.

Nothing in those chapters about God's house being called a house of prayer because the sacrifices and offerings of the gentiles are accepted.

Nothing in those chapters says that gentiles are to join in prayer in God's house UNTIL Jesus comes and dies for their sins at which point God rejects them.

Rather they are welcomed in worship in the Lord's house EVEN AFTER the resurrection of Christ - just as the Acts 18:4 text shows... (i.e. all the details you seem to be ignoring in your response - which is odd since you already admit to this condition for gentiles under the gospel. Have you thought your post through??? or are you not really interested in the point you appear to make - at first??)

 

[Cornelius8L]

please do ask --

Is 56:
6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To attend to His service and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps the Sabbath so as not to profane it,
And holds firmly to My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,
“I will yet gather others to them, to those already gathered.”


The liturgy of worship in the OT included animal sacrifices... since Christ had not yet been crucified.

A lot of Christians today will admit to this Bible fact.

No wonder then that we see gentiles worshiping in the house of God - in synagogues "Sabbath after Sabbath" in Acts 13, in Acts 17 and in Acts 18:4

=======================



IN Matt 21 Jesus addresses the bartering and cheating going on the temple court with money changers and those who sold animals for sacrifice at extortion prices - His claim is that Is 56 is making the house of God - a house of prayer for all nations "not just Jews" and they should not be extorting people in the court of the temple because it is a house of prayer... and not just for Jews to pray.



You may have to think about it for a few more minutes in that case... start by reading Acts 13, 17 and 18.



Nothing in those chapters says that gentiles are to join in prayer in God's house UNTIL Jesus comes and dies for their sins at which point God rejects them.

Rather they are welcomed in worship in the Lord's house EVEN AFTER the resurrection of Christ - just as the Acts 18:4 text shows... (i.e. all the details you seem to be ignoring in your response - which is odd since you already admit to this condition for gentiles under the gospel. Have you thought your post through??? or are you not really interested in the point you appear to make - at first??)

You only explained the pre-cross situation in Post #1399, and I was asking if the physical temple in Jerusalem is still the House of God. That part was not answered but it’s okay. We know the House of God is us (1 Corinthians 3:16). So the subject defined in the book of Isaiah was changed by Paul.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Colossians 2:17 "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Just because you and many others don't take these scriptures to heart doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

You lump his meaning with the rest of the festivals but Paul clearly separates each thing, -meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday (which are the festival days), or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Sabbath in this verse translated back is Sabbaton which is the day of rest from weekly secular avocations. Easily checked out with the KJV and Exhaustive Strong's.

Again, just because you don't accept this scripture doesn't mean the rest of us can see it for what it is. Yes, there are blood ordinances which were nailed to the cross but Paul is very specific and again, separates these as well. It's not about breaking a commandment it's about Christ fulfilling that commandment. Which clearly coincides with Hebrews 4 and putting our rest in him/Sabbatimos which is a type of heavenly rest. You can come back with it's a "keeping of the Sabbath" but it doesn't change the fact that Sabbatimos is only used one time like this and it's clear we need to be in his rest 24/7, not just one day of the week which was just a shadow of Christ. That is "keeping the Sabbath".When we put our rest in him, we are keeping the commandment to keep the Sabbath Holy. By letting the Holy Spirit dwell in his. That's the great comforter.

It's sad that you are tied to only worshipping him one day a week.

Actually, it is not a full day of worship. At best, it is a morning of worship and, for many, an hour at that.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Hi Julie,

I think you know full well from our previous conversations that I think we should worship God everyday, so not sure why you would make such an accusation when we have discussed this many times. Worshipping God daily does not delete our moral obligation to obey His commandments.

Anyway, I’ll post this study again for those who are interested and Colossians 2:14-17 is not referring to the Sabbath commandment. There is no scripture in the entire bible that says we can break a commandment of God, so not sure why those are trying to force this to say something’s it’s not. This will get sorted out soon enough and wish you all well in seeking His Word.

Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

Scripture shows ordinances are not commandments and commandments are not ordinances- they are separated.

Most when quoting Colossians 2:16-17 never back up to Colossians 2:14 for some reason which plainly gives the context.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Colossians 2:14:
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way? Absolutely not.
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 31:18
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11

Colossians 2:14 certainly does not fit with the Sabbath commandment so not sure why so many people try to force this to fit despite the facts clearly showing it is not referring to the weekly Sabbath commandment.

Are there other sabbath(s) in scripture called ordinances that would lead us to the correct context of this passage? What does the scripture say?

2 Chronicles 33:8
Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

Moses hand-wrote the ordinances and the hand of Moses is not the same as the finger of God.

Ezekiel 43:18
And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

So what is Colossians 2:14-17 talking about? The sacrificial system in the annual sabbath(s) feast-day ordinances that was used for the forgiveness of sins. These all point to Jesus because He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we turn from sin and through Jesus He can give us a new heart and enables us to keep His commandments through love and faith. John 14:15-18, Romans 3:31. The blood of animals made nothing perfect Hebrews 10, but the blood of Christ can cleanse from all sins, when we turn from sin and walk with Christ in obedience to Him. The annual sacrificial sabbath(s) all came after the fall of man. The seventh day Sabbath was part of Creation Genesis 2:1-3 and was part of God’s perfect plan before the fall of man so it is impossible to be a shadow of anything.

There is no scripture that says we can break the commandments of God. The Sabbath is part of a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 that God placed together and cannot be separated, changed, deleted or removed. Sin is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes right to the 10 to point out sin. Romans 7:7

It’s sad so much energy goes in trying to disprove one of God’s finger-written Ten Commandments instead of just obeying God.

Happy Sabbath!

The instruction of the Sabbath commandment of ‘keeping it holy’ (Exodus 20:8) is through the ordinances (Exodus 31:14, Numbers 28:9-10). If you remove those ordinances that keep the Sabbath holy, you are changing the Sabbath commandment already. I believe no one says we break the Sabbath commandment. We observed it with the latest instructions given by the scripture. If you keep saying we break the Sabbath commandment when the scripture doesn’t, you bear false testimony against us.

The Pharisees pore over the scriptures (John 5:39), but they cannot connect the words of God, unlike Jesus and Paul, using David over the bread (Matthew 12:4), circumcision, Melchizedek, etc. Aren’t some also poring over the scriptures yet cannot connect them?

 

[Cornelius8L]

All these ‘facts’ yet not one scripture that says the Sabbath is no longer a commandment and we no longer have to keep the Sabbath commandment the way God asked.


Speaking of facts, here are 60 facts about the Sabbath taken from scripture

I believe no one says we do not keep the Sabbath. Our discussion here is either Saturday full day or every day. Those who can accept every day will not question if the gathering can happen on Sunday. So, your statement should be whether the commandment changed. Saying we imply need no longer keep the Sabbath is a misleading accusation.

And appreciate your effort in stating the 60 facts which majorly irrelevant to our discussion of whether the commandment changed. But since I have time, I will reply to each of them.

• After working the first six days of the week in creating this earth, the great God rested on the seventh day. (Genesis 2:1.3.)

• This stamped that day as God's rest day, or Sabbath day, as Sabbath day means rest day. To illustrate: When a person is born on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. So when God rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath, day.

• Therefore the seventh day must always be God's Sabbath day. Can you change your birthday from the day on which you were born to one on which you were not born? No. Neither can you change God's rest day to a day on which He did not rest. Hence the seventh day is still God's Sabbath day.

• The Creator blessed the seventh day. (Genesis 2:3.)

• He sanctified the seventh day. (Exodus 20:11.)

• He made it the Sabbath day in the Garden of Eden. (Genesis 2:1-3.)

• It was made before the fall; hence it is not a type; for types were not introduced till after the fall.

• Jesus says it was made for man (Mark 2:27), that is, for the race, as the word man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentile as well as for the Jew.

We can reply to these points with your own illustration. How or when to celebrate our birthday can be changed even if we have a fixed birth date. And did God ask us to change? He did in NT (we discussed), and our point strengthens further by the existence of the OT priesthood.

• It is a memorial of creation. (Exodus 20:11; 31:17.) Every time we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we commemorate that grand event.

• It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3.)

• Hence through him, as our representative, to all nations. (Acts 17:26.)

• It is' not a Jewish institution, for it was made 2,300 years before ever there was a Jew.

• The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Men should be cautious how they stigmatize God's holy rest day.

• Evident reference is made to the Sabbath and the seven-day week all, through the patriarchal age. (Genesis 2:l-3; 8:10,12; 29:27,28.etc.)

• God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they profaned the Sabbath. (Ezekiel 20:12, 13.)

• It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him from false gods. (Ezekiel 20:20.)

• God promised that Jerusalem should stand forever if the Jews would keep the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:24, 25.)

• He sent them into the Babylonish captivity for breaking it. (Nehemiah 13:18.)

• He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. (Jeremiah 17:27.)

Exodus 31:17 and Ezekiel 20:20 state Sabbath is a sign between Him and the Israelites, not all nations. (Am I reading it right?) Later, Jesus came and said it was made for man (Mark 2:27). Again, sounds like a change to me. Which means the book of Jeremiah and Nehemiah are part of this sign.

Moreover, nowhere in the scripture says it was given to Adam. It is a human idea. Further instructions were given after the Jews were around. The quote about the patriarchal age (Genesis 2:l-3; 8:10,12; 29:27,28.etc.) doesn’t suggest that they are practicing Sabbath.

• It was a part of God's law before Sinai. (Exodus 16:4, 27-29.)

• Then God placed it in the heart of His moral law. (Exodus 20:1-17.) Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine precepts, which all admit to be immutable?

• The seventh-day Sabbath was commanded by the voice of the living God. (Deuteronomy 4:12,13.)

• Then He wrote the commandment with His own finger. (Exodus 31:18.)

• He engraved it in the enduring stone, indicating its imperishable nature. (Deuteronomy 5:22.)

• It was sacredly preserved in the ark in the holy of holies. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5.)

• God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most hurrying times. (Exodus 34:21.)

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 answers the points here. Again, there is a change.

• God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who will keep it. (Isaiah 56:6, 7.)

• This is in the prophecy, which refers wholly to the Christian dispensation. (See Isaiah 56.)

• God has promised to bless all who keep the Sabbath. (Isaiah 56:2.)

• The Lord requires us to call it "honourable". (Isaiah 58:13.) Beware, ye who take delight in calling it the. “old Jewish Sabbath,” “a yoke of bondage,” etc.

• After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down "many generations,” it is to be restored in the last days. (Isaiah 58:12,13.)

• All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.

Since Isaiah spoke about the future, it would refer to the fulfilled commandment. And the gentiles observe it in the NT way, which is more glorious.

• When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. (Luke 4:16; John 15:10.) Thus He followed His Father's example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?

Saying Jesus followed His Father’s example at creation by entering the temple is an added human idea. He went there to testify the truth (John 18:20). He fasted in the wilderness 40days and nights to testify this point.

The seventh day is the Lord's Day. (See Revelation 1:10; Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:10.)

• He vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed for man's good. (Mark 2:23-28.)

• Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He carefully taught how it should be observed. (Matthew 12:1-13.)

• He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the Sabbath day but what was “lawful” (Matthew 12:12.)

Mark 2:28 says “Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even καὶ (kai) of the Sabbath.” It means He can do anything even on the Sabbath.

Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), that is, to love and protect it, as the husband is the lord of the wife, to love and cherish her (1 Peter 3:6.)

Huh? Does a day become a wife? So Jesus’s wife is Sabbath Day and not the Church? What are you trying to say?

He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection. (Matthew 24:20.)

It seems you imply Sabbath Journey remains.

The pious women who had been with Jesus carefully kept the seventh day after His death. (Luke 23:56.)

So as they kept the Sabbath Journey after Jesus ascended.

• Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit' expressly calls it "the Sabbath day,"(Acts 13:14.)

• Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the "Sabbath day" in A.D. 45. (Acts 13:27.) Did not Paul know? Or shall we believe modern teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the Sabbath at the resurrection of Christ?

• Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it the "Sabbath day." (Acts 13:44.)

• The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. (Acts 13:42.)

• In the great Christian council, A.D. 49, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the "sabbath day." (Acts 15:21)

• It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. (Acts 16:13.)

• Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. (Acts 17:2, 3.)

• It was his custom to preach upon that day. (Acts 17:2,3.)

• The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon that day. (See Acts 13:14, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4. 11.)

Did the Holy Spirit call it “the Sabbath day,” here? There is a time gap in v13. Do they have a term called “weekend” in Paul’s time? The book of Acts is the letter to Theophilus (Acts 1:1). If it was a custom to call it sabbath day, why Luke wants to confuse Theophilus? Moreover, they were having a revolution against OT practices. In the tense state of revolution and persecution, Paul would even circumcise Timothy (Acts 16:3), although not required.

• There was never any dispute between the Christians and the Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still observed the same day that the Jews did.

• In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not keep it?

• But Paul himself expressly declared that he had kept the law. “Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all." Acts 25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?

• The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-nine times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the Old Testament, “the Sabbath day.”

There was no dispute because they gathered daily in NT (Acts 2:46, Acts 20:7). If Paul keeps it daily, the seventh day is automatically kept.

• Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the Sabbath's being abolished, done away, changed, or anything of the kind.

• God has never given permission to any man to work upon it. Reader, by what authority do you use - the seventh day for common labor?

There are, but some just denied them by twisting the words of Paul. God has never permitted any man to revert anything that changed. If Adam and Even came out of the Garden of Eden clothed, they shouldn’t be naked again as when they were created.

• No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find one case of that kind, and we will yield the question. Why should modem Christians do differently from Bible Christians?

So the priest is not a Christian? Saving an ox on Sabbath is work (Luke 14:5). Do you know how heavy an ox is? An ox will not die if we let it stays there a day, why did Jesus let them work to save it?

• There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or sanctification from the seventh day.

God blesses us every day if we keep His word.

• As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. (Isaiah 66:22, 23.)

• The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own finger upon stone at Sinai. (See Exodus 20.) When Jesus began His work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the law. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.” Matthew 5:17

• Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to love God, while at the same time they made void one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of Sunday is only a tradition of men.

Again, Jesus came to fulfill it. Not to maintain it with the old way. Whatever we do with our tradition on Saturday does not keep the day holy because there was no such instruction in NT. Do we think we can keep the day holy by hymn singing, reading the bible, and listening to the pastor? Where is it recorded?

Btw, the 60 facts look like a copy-paste from somewhere. SDA Sabbath booklets?

 

[Cornelius8L]

Hi SabbathBlessings,

This quote below came to my mind when discussing with another poster on this thread. I caught him in two blatant errors. Instead of acknowledging the errors he just restated them and set them back out again

While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light. 2 MCP 672.2​

People are tenacious in clinging to their doubts. Even should you be able to get them to release one hook of doubt they immediately put up 3 more.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

@Leaf473 was speaking sense. We all know he was talking about Pentecost, not sailing. Why were your replies diverted to sailing?

 

[Cornelius8L]

Let’s consider this. Jesus won many debates against the Pharisees and scribes. But why can’t He convince them who sit at Moses’ seat (Matthew 23:2)? It was because Pharisees and scribes being the leaders, cannot deny themselves (Matthew 16:24), and they have no choice but to defend what they have been preaching many years to the people. Their reputation as leaders cannot crumble (Luke 20:46, John 12:43) since their believers/followers depend on them. So, a leader of a church with a long history has a disadvantage in truth debate since the reputation of the denomination is at stake, just like the reputation of the religious leaders back in Jesus' time. And likely, there are even human politics behind all these. “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’” (Matthew 23:9) Non-leaders like some of us do not defend doctrines of any denomination but the words of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The instruction of the Sabbath commandment of ‘keeping it holy’ (Exodus 20:8) is through the ordinances (Exodus 31:14, Numbers 28:9-10). If you remove those ordinances that keep the Sabbath holy, you are changing the Sabbath commandment already. I believe no one says we break the Sabbath commandment. We observed it with the latest instructions given by the scripture. If you keep saying we break the Sabbath commandment when the scripture doesn’t, you bear false testimony against us.

The Pharisees pore over the scriptures (John 5:39), but they cannot connect the words of God, unlike Jesus and Paul, using David over the bread (Matthew 12:4), circumcision, Melchizedek, etc. Aren’t some also poring over the scriptures yet cannot connect them?

Here let me help, this is the Sabbath commandment.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

According to God it is a commandment and part of the Ten Commandments . Exodus 34:28 Exodus 20 written by the finger of God. Exodus 31:18 and started from Creation before sin and any sacrificial ordinances for the forgiveness of sin because there was no sin in Eden when the Sabbath was instituted by God, thus no sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin. Genesis 2:1-3.

Scripture shows Jesus and the apostles kept the Sabbath without any animal sacrifices and was inline with the commandment, so obviously your premise that the weekly Sabbath is an ordinances and not a commandment the way God clearly stated, is a faulty one. Luke 4:16-30, Acts 18:4, Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42, Acts 17:4. There is no animal sacrifices in the weekly Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11 you are confusing the daily sacrifices with the Sabbath commandment and yes the Sabbath continues as shown clearly without the animal sacrifices because Jesus became our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin and walk in His Spirit which is obedient to God commandments. The commandments just points out sin so we know what not to break Romans 7:7 and if we break one of these commandments that God placed in a unit of Ten, we break them all. James 2:10-12.

Hope this helps.

 

[Leaf473]

you seem to have lost the point of the text.

I think this is a great opportunity to go over the whole passage. Quoting from he New American Standard Bible:

This is what the Lord says:

“Guard justice and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come
And My righteousness to be revealed.

The first thing Isaiah talks about is justice and righteousness.

Blessed is a man who does this,
And a son of man who takes hold of it;
Who keeps from profaning the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 56 - New American Standard Bible

Not profaning the Sabbath is closely tied to doing justice. Removing the oppression of the underclasses is a common theme in Isaiah, and related to both the Sabbath and fasting.

I'll pause for a bit. If at any point you (or anyone) disagree, please jump in.

 

[JulieB67]

All these ‘facts’ yet not one scripture that says the Sabbath is no longer a commandment and we no longer have to keep the Sabbath commandment the way God asked.

I have a scenario for you. Say some people got together on the 1st day of the week in a certain location and the word was preached to them on that day, would they and the person preaching to them be breaking the Sabbath in your eyes?