If the majority end up in ect

wendykvw

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Scripture speaks of the present creation being destroyed by fire.

Do you want a rerun of the spiritual struggle all over again ???

Satan is a created being and he will not feature in the New Heaven and New Earth.

It will be a new creation, not the same as last time. The Cross secured a completely new beginning.

The restoration will be a new earth free from the fallen condition not a repeat. “ There will no longer be death or suffering for the old will pass away.”
 
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wendykvw

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Then, by Universal Restoration you mean plain Universalism, and not what I think is meant by the restoration of all things to God.
How are you defining “plain universalism”?
 
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wendykvw

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¢¢Below are quotes from three credible Jewish sources; the 1917 Jewish Encyclopedia, 1972 Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud. Which to date have not been, and I am convinced cannot be, refuted.
= = = = =
…..It is very enticing to claim that the Christian concept of "Hell" was somehow derived from Dante's 14th century writing “Inferno,” or some later writing. But according to these three sources, at least 16 centuries before Dante even scribbled one line, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom. Sheol and gehinnom are written Hades and Gehenna, respectively, in both the 225 BC LXX and the NT. As can be seen by the citations in this post The Jews later called both Sheol/Hades, and Ge Hinnom/Gehenna, “Hell.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. These differing beliefs do not disprove anything in this post.

[1]1925 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the sons of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this paragraph would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]
Note: This is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. DA
…..This refutes the false narrative that the fifteen [15] times Jesus mentioned “Gehenna” He was referring to the valley of GeHinnom/Gehenna where trash and bodies were supposedly always burning.

”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai [30 BC-90 AD] wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
“But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab [Talmud]. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
“… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).[Talmud] “When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; [Talmud] comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b)[Talmud].

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
= = = = = = = = = =
[3]Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
When Jesus taught e.g.,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell [Γέεννα/gehenna] where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3 times Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6 [A fate worse than death. DA]
• “Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. …And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24 [A fate worse than death]
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
[A fate worse than death. DA]
…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, c.f. Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and Talmud, supra.
In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Heb 10:28-31.

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [A fate worse than death. DA]
…..how much sorer punishment,””Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord,””It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” these deprecations certainly do not sound like everyone will be saved, no matter what.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He intended to say eternal death, in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.
….The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, see Acts of the Apostles 23:8. They knew that everybody died; rich, poor; young, old; good, bad; men, women; children, infants; sick, healthy, and knew that it was permanent and often it did not involve punishment.
When Jesus taught, e.g., “eternal punishment” the Sadducees would not have understood it as simply death, it very likely would have meant something worse to them.
…..Re: Matt 25:46 concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
…..Jesus attended Temple and synagogues for about 25 years +/-. He undoubtedly knew what the Jews believed about the fate of the unrighteous. He opposed the Jewish leaders many times, If the Jewish teaching on hell was wrong, why wouldn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, e.g.
"The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity"[/i] ([Judith xvi:17]Judith xvi. 17).
Link: Judith, CHAPTER 16
Islam teaches the same eternal torture chamber for those who reject Allah. Christianity is unique that Jesus Christ who is God in human form loved every sinner ever born and rather than inflict cruel and unusual punishment to fallible people, He chose to extend Grace and Mercy. No evil spirit and nothing in all creation can prevent God from redeeming and restoring all creation to the original pre-fallen condition.
 
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wendykvw

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Now you are getting silly. I never said or implied that Moses was in Hell. When Jesus mentioned "Gehenna" He was talking about a place of fiery eternal punishment NOT a burning trash dump outside Jerusalem. It never existed. There was a trash dump outside Jerusalem but NOT in Gehenna but the next valley over the Kidron valley.
Miqweh of Second Temple Period. ......Jerusalem City-Dump in the Late Second Temple Period, ZDPV, 119/1 (2003),
The chance discovery of an Early Roman city dump (1st century CE) in Jerusalem has yielded for the first time ever quantitative data on garbage components that introduce us to the mundane daily life Jerusalemites led and the kind of animals that were featured in their diet. Most of the garbage consists of pottery shards, all common tableware, while prestige objects are entirely absent. Other significant garbage components include numerous fragments of cooking ovens, wall plaster, animal bones and plant remains. Of the pottery vessels, cooking pots are the most abundant type.
…..Most of the refuse turns out to be “household garbage” originating in the domestic areas of the city, while large numbers of cooking pots may point to the presence of pilgrims. Significantly, the faunal assemblage, which is dominated by kosher species and the clear absence of pigs, set Jerusalem during its peak historical period apart from all other contemporaneous Roman urban centers.
...
Recently, the contemporaneous city-dump was identified on the eastern slope of the south-eastern hill of Jerusalem in the form of a thick mantle (up to 10 m, 200,000 m3 ) (Reich and Shukron 2003). The dump is located roughly 100 m outside and south-east of the Temple Mount on the eastern slope of the Kidron Valley (fig. 1), and extends at least 400 m and is 50–70 m wide. Large amounts of pottery and coins date the dump to the Early Roman period (the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE up to the destruction of the city by the Romans in 70 CE). A preliminary study of the garbage (Bouchnik, Bar-Oz and Reich 2004; Bouchnik et al. 2005) showed the presence of animal bones.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...udy_of_the_City-Dump_of_Early_Roman_Jerusalem
Jerusalem’s Garbage
The Myth of the Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna – BiblePlaces.com

Not silly at all. Using your logic when God punishes it is done in a vindictive and hateful manner; and According to the ect view. Moses also asked to have His name removed from the book. One can make the case the book Moses referred to is the book of life. Was Moses asking to go to hell?
 
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wendykvw

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It does appear, assuming only some are reconciled with God, that God is either too weak to obtain victory or simply inept. It's as if God set out to create a good creation but didn't count the cost. :scratch:
Great point. I wonder why this is so overlooked in mainstream Christian theology? Would God allow Satan to destroy all He created without hope for every person in all cultures and generations? The devil is good at blinding people from the truth, but if they continue to be blinded that would make the snake victorious. I don’t buy that scenario.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Christianity is unique that Jesus Christ who is God in human form loved every sinner ever born and rather than inflict cruel and unusual punishment to fallible people, He chose to extend Grace and Mercy.

That is not the full story unless we snip scriptures from the bible.

Better to present a theology that takes into account every verse under His inspiration.
 
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Hmm

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Better to present a theology that takes into account every verse under His inspiration.

Agreed. How do you account for these verses?

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labour and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all people, and especially of those who believe.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Agreed. How do you account for these verses?

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labour and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Verse 1
All are resurrected to judgement. Some to eternal life some not.

Verse 2
The gift of eternal life is offered to all - not all accept.

Verse 3
Same again - His salvation is available but not all accept.
 
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Hmm

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Verse 1
All are resurrected to judgement. Some to eternal life some not.

Verse 2
The gift of eternal life is offered to all - not all accept.

Verse 3
Same again - His salvation is available but not all accept.

But this is merely your overlay over these verses and the exact opposite of what the verses themselves are clearly saying.

Reading your post, I must say that I'm so thankful that I have been given a faith where I don't perceive the unimaginable depth, height and breadth of God's love as a threat of eternal torture.
 
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Mark Quayle

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How are you defining “plain universalism”?

I was referring to the notion that absolutely everyone who ever will have lived will be saved, in the end; as opposed to the notion that "all things restored to God" does not include that, but does refer to several other things.
 
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Der Alte

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Islam teaches the same eternal torture chamber for those who reject Allah. Christianity is unique that Jesus Christ who is God in human form loved every sinner ever born and rather than inflict cruel and unusual punishment to fallible people, He chose to extend Grace and Mercy. No evil spirit and nothing in all creation can prevent God from redeeming and restoring all creation to the original pre-fallen condition.
What Islam or or any other pagan religious group taught/teaches is totally irrelevant. I quoted scripture and I quoted, as yet unrefuted, 3 Jewish historical writings which show how the Jews interpreted the relevant scripture. No commentary, no "explanation" only what the Jews wrote about their historical interpretation of their Hebrew scripture. And I showed how what Jesus, Himself, taught did not contradict but supported the then existing belief in a place of eternal fiery punishment and the Jews called it both "sheol" and "Gehinnom" written as "Hades" and "Gehenna" in the 225 BC LXX and the NT..
Please show me one vs, 2 or more would be better, where God, Himself, speaking or Jesus, Himself, speaking says that all mankind, righteous and unrighteous alike, will be saved no matter what, even after death. Or words to that effect.
Here for you edification. The words of Jesus only!
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church from its inception, 2000 +/- years ago. Who better than the team of; native Greek speaking scholars, who translated the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB] know the meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”
Link to EOB N.T.;
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1. Matt 25:46 and the second occurrence is 1 John 4:18.

EOB 1 John 4:18 here is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.
Note the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars who translated the EOB translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT age.
The Greek word translated “punishment” in Matt 25:46 is “kolasis.” Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction” but according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.” 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect.
No matter how much you want "aionios" to not mean "eternal" it will never happen.


 
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Der Alte

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Agreed. How do you account for these verses?
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people
1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labour and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all people, and especially of those who believe.
First, anyone can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective cherry picked vss. out-of-context as you have done.
Universal Reconciliation is a big issue. Please show me one [1] vs. 2 or more would be better, where the Father, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, speaking say that all mankind will be saved, righteous and unrighteous alike, even after death or words to that affect.
How do you understand Matthew 25:46? ...You are wrong and you know it.
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church from its inception, 2000 +/- years ago. Who better than the team of; native Greek speaking scholars, who translated the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB] know the meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”
Link to EOB:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1. Matt 25:46 and the second occurrence is 1 John 4:18.

EOB 1 John 4:18 here is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.
Note the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars who translated the EOB translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT age.
The Greek word translated “punishment” in Matt 25:46 is “kolasis.” Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction” but according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.” 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect.


 
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wendykvw

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That is not the full story unless we snip scriptures from the bible.

Better to present a theology that takes into account every verse under His inspiration.

If one accepts that God will punish people eternally in hell, passages are interpreted one way; if it is believed God will eventually annihilate the wicked, passages are interpreted another way; and if one holds that all will eventually be restored to their original pre-fallen condition. The first two views paint God as incompetent and rest salvation on human ability and effort. Calvin was on point when he recognized that salvation solely rests on the work and merits of Christ.

Further, no one does presuppositionless exegesis of Scripture, or interpretation without some pre-understandings or theological commitments. There are always larger theological issues to be taken into account before one can pronounce that ‘this is the teaching of the Bible’ on any given subject

- Thomas Johnson
 
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wendykvw

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What Islam or or any other pagan religious group taught/teaches is totally irrelevant. I quoted scripture and I quoted, as yet unrefuted, 3 Jewish historical writings which show how the Jews interpreted the relevant scripture. No commentary, no "explanation" only what the Jews wrote about their historical interpretation of their Hebrew scripture. And I showed how what Jesus, Himself, taught did not contradict but supported the then existing belief in a place of eternal fiery punishment and the Jews called it both "sheol" and "Gehinnom" written as "Hades" and "Gehenna" in the 225 BC LXX and the NT..
Please show me one vs, 2 or more would be better, where God, Himself, speaking or Jesus, Himself, speaking says that all mankind, righteous and unrighteous alike, will be saved no matter what, even after death. Or words to that effect.
Here for you edification. The words of Jesus only!
Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church from its inception, 2000 +/- years ago. Who better than the team of; native Greek speaking scholars, who translated the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB] know the meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”
Link to EOB N.T.;
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1. Matt 25:46 and the second occurrence is 1 John 4:18.

EOB 1 John 4:18 here is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.
Note the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars who translated the EOB translated “aionios” as “eternal,” NOT age.
The Greek word translated “punishment” in Matt 25:46 is “kolasis.” Some folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction” but according to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.” 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect.
No matter how much you want "aionios" to not mean "eternal" it will never happen.



IT is relevant to the conversation. Christianity is unique in that God would never torture or burn those He loves, and God loves all that He created.

Did Moses ask to go to hell when he asked God to remove his name from the book?

Exodus 32:32
"Yet now, if You would only forgive their sin.... But if not, please blot me out of the book that You have written.”


Speaking to the pagans who burned their children in the fire God revealed: "They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind." Jer 19:5

The verses in the gospel that speak of punishment are directed towards the "believers" and religiously minded. Christ warned them often due to their pride and self-righteousness. These religiously minded made it a habit of berating those who they felt were unworthy of salvation, their pride was in their "abilities" . According to 1 John 4:18 focusing on judgment and punishment is a lack of fully comprehending God's Love, Mercy, and Grace.

"There is no fear in love [dread does not exist]. But perfect (complete, full-grown) love drives out fear, because fear involves [the expectation of divine] punishment, so the one who is afraid [of God’s judgment] is not perfected in love [has not grown into a sufficient understanding of God’s love]."
 
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wendykvw

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I was referring to the notion that absolutely everyone who ever will have lived will be saved, in the end; as opposed to the notion that "all things restored to God" does not include that, but does refer to several other things.

Scripture indicates that all will eventually come to know and confess Jesus as their Lord. This outcome Glorifies God and all that He set out to do, which was to restore the creation that Satan destroyed at the fall of Eden.

All people have sinned.”-Rom 3:23

“Mercy triumphs over judgment.”-James 2:13

“Everyone will be purified.”-Mark 9:49

“All will be drawn to Christ.”-John 12:32


“All of creation will be reconciled back to God.”-Col 1:20

“The Lamb of God takes away the sins of the world. “-John 1:29


“Every knee will bow, in love and adoration to the Lamb of God”.-Phil 2:10


“Everyone will be restored.”-Luke 5:15


“All will know the Lord “.-Hebrews 8:1


“Every creature will praise and honor God forever!"-Revelation 5:13
 
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Der Alte

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IT is relevant to the conversation. Christianity is unique in that God would never torture or burn those He loves, and God loves all that He created.* * *
Genesis 7:21-23
(21) And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
(22) All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
(23) And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Genesis 19:24-25
(24) Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
(25) And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Genesis 19:28
(28) And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

Deuteronomy 20:16-18
(16) But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
(17) But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
(18) That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.
 
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wendykvw

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Genesis 7:21-23
(21) And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
(22) All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
(23) And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Genesis 19:24-25
(24) Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
(25) And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Genesis 19:28
(28) And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

Deuteronomy 20:16-18
(16) But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
(17) But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
(18) That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.


What you have shared is a small portion of how God teaches the world His Grand plan of the Salvation of the world. We are no longer under the old covenant of keeping the law but are under the dispensation of Grace.

According to dispensational theology, there are also seven ages:

“Dispensational theology looks on the world and the history of Mankind as a household over which God is superintending the Outworking of His purpose and will. This outworking of His purpose can be seen by noting the various periods or stages of different economies whereby God deals with His work and Mankind in particular. These various stages or economies are called Dispensations. Their number may include as many as seven.


1. Age of Innocence


2. Age of Conscience

3. Age of Human government

4. Age of Promise

5. Age of Law

6. Age of Grace

7. Age of Kingdom

God deals with mankind through distinctive periods (ages and dispensations), these distinct periods, are unfolding to accomplish the salvation of each and every person. Galatians 1:4 teaches that Christ came to redeem the world from the present ‘evil age’. Ephesians 1:21 teaches that in God’s great power He came to rescue not only those in the present age but in the age to come. His greatness surpasses any other power or authority. The universe is in the process of growth. In the age to come (the future), all of creation will be reconciled to their Creator.
 
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Der Alte

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What you have shared is a small portion of how God teaches the world His Grand plan of the Salvation of the world. We are no longer under the old covenant of keeping the law but are under the dispensation of Grace.* * *
More deflection you said "Christianity is unique in that 'God would never torture or burn those He loves.'" I posted scriptures which showed that God killed millions by drowning, 1000s by fire,100s or 1000s by the sword. The rest is just another unsupported opinion.
 
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Carl Emerson

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But this is merely your overlay over these verses and the exact opposite of what the verses themselves are clearly saying.

Reading your post, I must say that I'm so thankful that I have been given a faith where I don't perceive the unimaginable depth, height and breadth of God's love as a threat of eternal torture.

They are your words not mine...

The key is that unbelievers who choose eternity without love among others who are loveless are not in for an easy time.

This is not something that God does, it is something they do and were warned about.

God honours the desire to reject Love, and man lives with the consequences.
 
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Carl Emerson

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If one accepts that God will punish people eternally in hell, passages are interpreted one way; if it is believed God will eventually annihilate the wicked, passages are interpreted another way; and if one holds that all will eventually be restored to their original pre-fallen condition. The first two views paint God as incompetent and rest salvation on human ability and effort. Calvin was on point when he recognized that salvation solely rests on the work and merits of Christ.

Further, no one does presuppositionless exegesis of Scripture, or interpretation without some pre-understandings or theological commitments. There are always larger theological issues to be taken into account before one can pronounce that ‘this is the teaching of the Bible’ on any given subject

- Thomas Johnson

Am I in dialogue with you or Thomas Johnson (whoever he is)
 
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