1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. We are holding our 2022 Angel Ministry Drive now. Please consider signing up, or if you have any questions about being an Angel, use our staff application form. The world needs more prayer now, and it is a great way to help other members of the forums. :) To Apply...click here

If the majority end up in ect

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by wendykvw, Jun 23, 2022.

  1. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

    You are right of course except the choices they made ended them in hell just as surely as if it was true. Your premise that they chose hell must mean they chose torture over endless joy is false...

    The choice they faced was to accept or to reject YHWH's claims to be our creator GOD without HIM providing any proof.* For those who would accept HIM by faith, that is, on an unproven hope HE was telling us the truth, HE promised salvation from any sin we might do and a heavenly marriage between HIM and all who so chose. For those who would reject HIM as god and as a future husband, HE warned them that their decision to rebuke HIM as a false god would enslave them to sin while also putting them outside of HIS saving grace and mercy, that is, they would be eternally sinful, unfit to ever be HIS Bride and therefore only fit to be banished from HIS heavenly reality to the outer darkness.

    So, when they chose to repudiate HIM as a liar and a false god, they were not actually choosing to go to hell since they believe HE was lying and had no power over heaven or hell, but they were choosing to be damned IF HE were ever to prove HIS claims were actually true which they thought was impossible. They knew such proof would end with them in hell but so committed were they to their belief about HIM being evil and not god, they scorned the idea they could be wrong.

    They even scorned those who chose to put their faith in YHWH as GOD just to avoid hell but once safe from hell (ie, under HIS election promise of salvation in response to their decision of faith), then to go their own way to become sinners, His sheep gone astray...

    * Proof of HIS claims before their free will choice to accept or to reject HIM would force (ie, no free will) everyone to accept HIM, negating anyone's desire to reject HIM. Since no true marriage or real love relationship can be forced but must be accepted by a free will acceptance, proof of HIS divinity had to be withheld to allow HIS creation to freely choose what they most want to be true, how they most wanted to live, with HIM in HIS family or as HIS eternal enemies.
  2. wendykvw

    wendykvw Restoration Minister, Author, Cosplay Artist. Supporter

    United States

    Regarding aionios in Matthew 25:44-46. This is a problem for your view of ECT.
    Jesus is speaking to those on the left who addressed Him as “Lord”, it is interesting Jesus tells them that their fate is in the eternal fire. Why would Jesus warn them if they confess and believe Him as their “Lord”?

    “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ And they will go away into the eternal fire. Matthew 25:44-46

    This is a problem for the ECT view and the annihilation view as well, it teaches that those who confess Jesus will be burned up or/and tormented forever. This is not an issue for the restoration view at all, the fire is going to remove their indifference .Some will say that those who confessed Jesus as Lord were not genuine believers but this is verse does not say they are disingenuous, those on the left are very concerned they did not help Jesus vs. 44 when did we did we see you when you were hungry, thirsty, sick or in prison?…

    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022