Can you really live by Sola Scriptura?

[Valletta]

Christs Church according to the scriptures, are all those who believe and follow what God's Word says not those who say "We have Abraham for our father and are Abraham's seed and never in bondage to any man" *see John 8:31-47; John 8:31-36; John 7:17. Those who depart Gods' Word depart the faith as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. In the last days according to Jesus there will be many false prophets and false Christs to deceive if possible God's very elect *Matthew 22:14. We are in the last days. Jesus is coming and calling us all where ever we might be to come out of following man-made teaching and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God, back to His Word to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *see Matthew 15:3-9; John 4:23-24. According to John of Revelation, "Babylon has fallen and God is calling us back to His Word. Gods' sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow Him. Those who do not hear according to Jesus do not hear and follow because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27. It is now time to wake up. It is now time to trim our lamps and go out to meet the bridegroom. If our lamp goes out how will we find our way when the road is dark and narrow and few that be that find it *Psalms 119:105; Proverbs 6:23; Matthew 7:13-14; Matthew 7:20-23?

Yes, people broke away from God's Word and started their own manmade traditions, not the traditions that were handed down through the Apostles and popes.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Christs Church according to the scriptures, are all those who believe and follow what God's Word says not those who say "We have Abraham for our father and are Abraham's seed and never in bondage to any man" *see John 8:31-47; John 8:31-36; John 7:17. Those who depart Gods' Word depart the faith as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. In the last days according to Jesus there will be many false prophets and false Christs to deceive if possible God's very elect *Matthew 22:14. We are in the last days. Jesus is coming and calling us all where ever we might be to come out of following man-made teaching and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God, back to His Word to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *see Matthew 15:3-9; John 4:23-24. According to John of Revelation, "Babylon has fallen and God is calling us back to His Word. Gods' sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow Him. Those who do not hear according to Jesus do not hear and follow because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27. It is now time to wake up. It is now time to trim our lamps and go out to meet the bridegroom. If our lamp goes out how will we find our way when the road is dark and narrow and few that be that find it *Psalms 119:105; Proverbs 6:23; Matthew 7:13-14; Matthew 7:20-23?

What are these man made traditions of which you speak? Are you accusing men of making up the sacraments that were instituted by Jesus Himself? Do you call sheep away from the grace of God to bow to your reasoning?
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is on line. Each of the seven Sacraments was instituted by Christ Himself. You can read about it if you look it up, but you are not going to post here and accuse others of following man made traditions when you present no evidence.
That’s like going up to someone on a playground and saying, your mama wears army boots! It’s a meaningless insult.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There are so many splinter religions that have broken off from Christ's Church and follow man-made traditions, it is our prayer that those religions one day re-unite with us.

That’s why scripture is calling people to worship in Spirit and Truth John 4:23-24 and Jesus warns not to obey the traditions of man over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9. Your own church seems to recognize what they have done and even gives SDA’s credit for keeping the scriptures, which is what Jesus told the apostles before asending back to heaven. Jesus said: Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
Matthew 28:19-20

The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.
—The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Jesus God and the Holy Spirit are One and the Holy Spirit will never guide anyone away from the teachings of scripture, the Word of God. Scripture is our only safeguard to Truth so we will not be deceived.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

Scripture tells right before the second coming to fear God and give glory to Him (not man/church).

Revelation 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Direct reference to Exodus 20:11 the commandment of God written by His own finger.

So Glory goes to God and we should fear Him (respect).

Where else to we see this?

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all.

We should fear God AND keep His commandments (the commandments of God and not the commandments of the Catholic church)

The saints according to scripture keep the commandments of God and not the traditions we were warned about by Jesus.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

This really should be so easy for those willing to allow scripture to be their only guide which is how we know for sure we are following Jesus where ever He leads us. His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him. John 10:27

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, people broke away from God's Word and started their own manmade traditions.

Exactly this part of your post is truthful. That is why there was the Protestant reformation. The Roman Catholic Church had departed Gods' Word in order to follow man made teachings and traditions that were not biblical (e.g. the Popes doctrine of indulgences as a money maker for the Church was the last straw) and the reformation was calling people to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions to return to God's Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What are these man made traditions of which you speak? Are you accusing men of making up the sacraments that were instituted by Jesus Himself? Do you call sheep away from the grace of God to bow to your reasoning?
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is on line. Each of the seven Sacraments was instituted by Christ Himself. You can read about it if you look it up, but you are not going to post here and accuse others of following man made traditions when you present no evidence.
That’s like going up to someone on a playground and saying, your mama wears army boots! It’s a meaningless insult.

Anything that is not God's Word (scripture) that leads us away from God's Word in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions to break the commandments of God.

Some of these man-made teachings and traditions include (not exhaustive);

1. The Catholic Church is the one true church (CCC 2105),
2. Infallibility of the Catholic Church, (CCC 2035),
3. Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture (CCC 100),
4. The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ (CCC 2034),
5. Bowing down to idols (CCC 2141)
   
6. The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation (CCC 846),
7. Sacred Tradition equal to scripture (CCC 82),
8. Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works (CCC 2036 CCC 2080 2068),
9. Full benefit of Salvation is only through the Roman Catholic Church (Vatican 2, Decree on Ecumenism, 3),
10. Grace can be merited (CCC 2010 CCC 2027),
11. The merit of Mary and the Saints can be applied to Catholics and others (1477),
12. Penance is necessary for salvation (CCC 980),
13. Purgatory (CCC 1031 CCC 1475),
14. Indulgences (CCC 1471 CCC 1478 CCC 1498 CCC 1472),
15. Mary is Mediatrix (CCC 969),
16. Mary brings us the gifts of eternal salvation (CCC 969),
17. Mary delivers souls from death (CCC 966),
18. Prayer to the saints (CCC 2677),
19. Mary as sinless (CCC 996)
20. Mary was a perpetual virgin (CCC 502-507)
    
21. The Communion elements become the actual body and blood of Christ (CCC 1374 CCC 1376).
22. Mary as the Queen of Heaven (Lumen gentium, 59. The second Vatican council)
    
23. Changing of God's 4th commandment Sabbath day to Sunday (CCC 2175)
24. Sunday is now a holy day (CCC 2180)
    
25. Sunday is "the Lords day" (CCC 2174).
    
26. Primacy of Peter as the first Pope (Vatican; The Primacy of the Successor of Peter in the Mystery of the Church)

According to Jesus he is calling us all to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions to return to His Word and worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 17:17). God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24.

Take Care.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Anything that is not God's Word (scripture) that leads us away from God's Word in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions to break the commandments of God.

Some of these man-made teachings and traditions include;

1. The Catholic Church is the one true church (CCC 2105),
2. Infallibility of the Catholic Church, (CCC 2035),
3. Only the Roman Catholic Church has authority to interpret Scripture (CCC 100),
4. The Pope is the head of the church and has the authority of Christ (CCC 2034),
5. The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation (CCC 846),
6. Sacred Tradition equal to scripture (CCC 82),
7. Forgiveness of sins, salvation, is by faith and works (CCC 2036 CCC 2080 2068),
8. Full benefit of Salvation is only through the Roman Catholic Church (Vatican 2, Decree on Ecumenism, 3),
9. Grace can be merited (CCC 2010 CCC 2027),
10. The merit of Mary and the Saints can be applied to Catholics and others (1477),
11. Penance is necessary for salvation (CCC 980),
12. Purgatory (CCC 1031 CCC 1475),
13. Indulgences (CCC 1471 CCC 1478 CCC 1498 CCC 1472),
14. Mary is Mediatrix (CCC 969),
15. Mary brings us the gifts of eternal salvation (CCC 969),
16. Mary delivers souls from death (CCC 966),
17. Prayer to the saints (CCC 2677),
18. The Communion elements become the actual body and blood of Christ (CCC 1374 CCC 1376).
19. Mary as the Queen of Heaven.

According to Jesus he is calling us all to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions to return to His Word and worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 17:17). God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24.

Take Care.

Thank you for providing that list, it gives a basis of conversation. Those things you list are not man made but are thoroughly grounded in scripture. You don’t interpret it that way, but it does not make them man made or unbiblical.

Let’s start with the most glaring one. 11. Penance is necessary for salvation. Are you contending that a soul does not have to repent to receive salvation? Do you say that the call to repentance is man made?

Mark 1:15 and Matthew 4:17, Jesus says repent. It seems pretty important

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Thank you for providing that list, it gives a basis of conversation. Those things you list are not man made but are thoroughly grounded in scripture. You don’t interpret it that way, but it does not make them man made or unbiblical.

Let’s start with the most glaring one. 11. Penance is necessary for salvation. Are you contending that a soul does not have to repent to receive salvation? Do you say that the call to repentance is man made?

Mark 1:15 and Matthew 4:17, Jesus says repent. It seems pretty important

Happy to go through the list one at a time and discuss them from the scriptures and to see if they are really biblical or not. Let's start with # 1 and work our way through the list to # 26, then we can do a summary at the end and see how many in that list are biblical or not.. What do you think?

 

[Freth]

Point #11

Google's definition of the word penance:

pen·ance
/ˈpenəns/

noun
noun: penance; plural noun: penances

1. voluntary self-punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong.
2. Christian sacrament [see tradition of men previously addressed] in which a member of the Church confesses sins to a priest and is given absolution.

In the case of the primary definition, scripture does not call for self-punishment for forgiveness of sin. I think you would agree. The second definition is the one that fits the meaning in the list, so I'll address that one.

There is only one mediator.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.​

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
​

In Matthew 6, Jesus tells us to forgive men of their trespasses (against us), but this is not repentance, it is loving your enemy, loving your neighbor.

Matthew 6:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
​

It is ultimately up to the God the Father as to whether we are forgiven, and since there is only one mediator, there is no other place we can go but directly, through prayerful repentance.

Scripture also says that we are all a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9-10), but we still have to go to God for forgiveness of sin.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

We can stay with point. 11. The rest will be there, and will be dealt with. In order for us to have a meaningful conversation, we must make sure we understand each other, or else it becomes an unfruitful shouting match
Once we deal with point 11, I promise to go through the rest in numerical order, as you suggest.



I am not insulting you, Freth, but for the sake of simplicity, I will be addressing my replies to LoveGodsWord, as he came up with the list
Freth does have a problem with the definition of penance, because it seems to involve self punishment. Is that correct?
Matthew 16:24 and Luke 9:23 both say, if any man come after me, let him first deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Self denial and taking up a cross are forms of self restraint and punishing the flesh. It seems God is asking us for self punishment in order to follow him.
Also Luke 22:47 says that penance and remission of sins be preached in Jesus’ name



I am asking you truthfully, is it your contention that we do not have to restrain or punish our flesh to receive salvation? May a person continue to sin, if they speak with their mouth Jesus as savior? I am not saying that you believe this, but want to understand better your position


The Biblical basis for confession to a priest, a representative of the Apostles, is given in John 20:22-24. Jesus breathed on them and gave power to forgive sins. James 5 also says we are to confess our sins one to another, not to Jesus only
You may disagree with the interpretation, but you cannot call the Catholic Sacrament of Confession(penance) unbiblical or man made. It comes directly from scripture.

Let’s talk about point 11, is penance necessary for salvation?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We can stay with point. 11. The rest will be there, and will be dealt with. In order for us to have a meaningful conversation, we must make sure we understand each other, or else it becomes an unfruitful shouting match
Once we deal with point 11, I promise to go through the rest in numerical order, as you suggest.



I am not insulting you, Freth, but for the sake of simplicity, I will be addressing my replies to LoveGodsWord, as he came up with the list
Freth does have a problem with the definition of penance, because it seems to involve self punishment. Is that correct?
Matthew 16:24 and Luke 9:23 both say, if any man come after me, let him first deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Self denial and taking up a cross are forms of self restraint and punishing the flesh. It seems God is asking us for self punishment in order to follow him.
Also Luke 22:47 says that penance and remission of sins be preached in Jesus’ name



I am asking you truthfully, is it your contention that we do not have to restrain or punish our flesh to receive salvation? May a person continue to sin, if they speak with their mouth Jesus as savior? I am not saying that you believe this, but want to understand better your position


The Biblical basis for confession to a priest, a representative of the Apostles, is given in John 20:22-24. Jesus breathed on them and gave power to forgive sins. James 5 also says we are to confess our sins one to another, not to Jesus only
You may disagree with the interpretation, but you cannot call the Catholic Sacrament of Confession(penance) unbiblical or man made. It comes directly from scripture.

Let’s talk about point 11, is penance necessary for salvation?

Is there a reason you do not want to start from the beginning at point 1 in post # 425 linked and work through points 1-26 in a logical order or do you just want to start with point 11 because you believe that is your strongest argument? I am just trying to understand your reasoning. I very everyone of those teachings as equally unbiblical and very happy to show why from the scriptures if your interested.

 

[Valletta]

Exactly this part of your post is truthful. That is why there was the Protestant reformation. The Roman Catholic Church had departed Gods' Word in order to follow man made teachings and traditions that were not biblical and the reformation was calling people to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions to return to God's Word.

False. You would have no Bible but for the Catholic Church, when the Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible any text that was not 100 percent in keeping with Catholic teaching was rejected. The Bible is the book of the Catholic Church, not the other way around. It is critical to differentiate from the Word of God that we received, passed down through the Apostles and popes from the man-made traditions by so many splinter religions:
1 Thessalonians 2:13

Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.













[W]e also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers. (1 Thess. 2:13; cf. 1 Pet. 1:25)

Is there a reason you do not want to start from the beginning at point 1 in post # 425 linked and work through points 1-19 in a logical order or do you just want to start with point 11 because you believe that is your strongest argument? I am just trying to understand your reasoning. I very everyone of those teachings as equally unbiblical and very happy to show why from the scriptures if your interested.

I'd like to see where in the world the supposed quotation from Trent came. So much of the anti-Catholicism and bigotry comes either from false sources or something taken out of context or twisted to try and fit into a narrative. I'm not making an argument, I just stated the truth. Again, if there is some particular point you don't understand I would glad to explain it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

False. You would have no Bible but for the Catholic Church, when the Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible any text that was not 100 percent in keeping with Catholic teaching was rejected. The Bible is the book of the Catholic Church, not the other way around. It is critical to differentiate from the Word of God that we received, passed down through the Apostles and popes from the man-made traditions by so many splinter religions:
1 Thessalonians 2:13

Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.













[W]e also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers. (1 Thess. 2:13; cf. 1 Pet. 1:25)

I'd like to see where in the world the supposed quotation from Trent came. So much of the anti-Catholicism and bigotry comes either from false sources or something taken out of context or twisted to try and fit into a narrative. I'm not making an argument, I just stated the truth. Again, if there is some particular point you don't understand I would glad to explain it.

False. As shown through the history of the reformation we only have the bible today because of the protestant reformation. The Roman Catholic Church suppressed the bible and kept it away from the common people so that only the Priests could read it while speaking it in language that no one could understand accept for the well educated (see post # 379 linked). All the books of the bible were being used by every Church outside of Rome before the Catholic Church decreed which ones to use so were never given by the Roman Catholic Church. They were given to us from Israel (old testament) and through the Apostles.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'd like to see where in the world the supposed quotation from Trent came. So much of the anti-Catholicism and bigotry comes either from false sources or something taken out of context or twisted to try and fit into a narrative. I'm not making an argument, I just stated the truth. Again, if there is some particular point you don't understand I would glad to explain it.

There was no anti-Catholicism, bigotry or false sources shared with you. You were provided direct quotes from Popes and the Council of Trent as well as the Catholic Encyclopedia coming directly from the Roman Catholic Church and the Catholic Catechism. Isn't this an amazing thing that you have spent thousands of hours studying the Roman Catholic Church and you need a non-Catholic to teach you about the Catholic Council of Trent? We are better off spending that time seeking Jesus through the scriptures and believing and following what Gods' Word says if we want to be Christs disciples according to the scriptures, *see John 8:31-36; Matthew 15:3-9; John 7:17.

 

[Freth]

I am not insulting you, Freth, but for the sake of simplicity, I will be addressing my replies to LoveGodsWord, as he came up with the list
Freth does have a problem with the definition of penance, because it seems to involve self punishment. Is that correct?

None taken. Feel free to only respond to LGW, but I may participate in the thread as well. You can choose to ignore my posts and only answer LGW, I'm fine with that.

To answer your question: I don't believe the first definition from my previous post, which is describing self-punishment, is scripturally supported.

Self denial and taking up a cross are forms of self restraint and punishing the flesh. It seems God is asking us for self punishment in order to follow him.

Matthew 16:24 and Luke 9:23 both say, if any man come after me, let him first deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Self denial and taking up a cross are forms of self restraint and punishing the flesh. It seems God is asking us for self punishment in order to follow him.

What you're describing is a person who is still holding on to sin, and finds it punishing to have to deny their own flesh. What does Jesus say in Matthew 11?

Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.​

If His yoke is easy and His burden light, then not walking after the flesh is not punishment, but a delight. Notice, Jesus mentions rest twice. Does this sound like punishment?

Take a look at how the Amplified Bible expounds upon the verses above.

“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavily burdened [by religious rituals that provide no peace], and I will give you rest [refreshing your souls with salvation]. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me [following Me as My disciple], for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest (renewal, blessed quiet) for your souls. For My yoke is easy [to bear] and My burden is light.”
​

Denying the flesh is not punishment, it is freedom from the bondage of sin. Once you're free, it's not burdensome anymore, it is lifting the weight off of your shoulders.

Paul, in Romans, describes the correct perspective concerning sin.

Romans 6:4-7 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
​

If the body of sin is destroyed in the renewal of the body and the mind, there is no self-punishment whatsoever.

Romans 2:12 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
​

Proof that there is no self-punishment in following Jesus, but there is instead rest.

This is a misunderstanding that, unfortunately, many Christians believe, that we are in a constant state of punishment because of sin, when scripture calls for the body of sin to die, and to raise into a newness of life (Romans 6:8-18), which is freedom from sin.

Straddling the fence, and holding onto sin is not something we were ever called to do. I can see why it would be considered self-punishing, if that's what people are doing.

John 8:11, Jesus told the woman, "Go, and sin no more." He didn't mention self-punishment, only newness of life, free from sin, in one simple powerful statement.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Is there a reason you do not want to start from the beginning at point 1 in post # 425 linked and work through points 1-26 in a logical order or do you just want to start with point 11 because you believe that is your strongest argument? I am just trying to understand your reasoning. I very everyone of those teachings as equally unbiblical and very happy to show why from the scriptures if your interested.

it is the one that caught my eye, and it is very important. What shall we do to be saved? Is repentance required?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

it is the one that caught my eye, and it is very important. What shall we do to be saved? Is repentance required?

If your only reason is that point # 11 that caught your eye, why can't we start with point # 1 and work systematically through to post # 26 (post # 425 linked) ? I still do not understand your reasoning. Sorry perhaps it is a little early my time (just waking up).

 

[boughtwithaprice]

We can begin at salvation, without which, the rest does not make much sense

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We can begin at salvation, without which, the rest does not make much sense

Alright, so you would agree that Gods' salvation is only given to God's true Church right? Do you agree?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I was wondering since there are so many denominations claiming Sola Scriptura, what does that actually mean, and how is it different from the scenario presented in this video?

Are you governed by sola scriptura or is sola scriptura governed by you or those in authority over you?

This video really made me think. Anyone else?

https://youtube.com/shorts/tUZKrrz3vCk?feature=share

I have been getting so many wonderful insights out of the living written Scriptures over the last five decades that I haven't got around to considering anything outside of them. So it's been Sola Scriptura for me for 54 years and that's enough for me!

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Alright, so you would agree that Gods' salvation is only given to God's true Church right? Do you agree?

Christ is not divided, there is only one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, as the Nicene creed affirms and is agreed by this web site, Christian Forums, yes I agree. We are either members of Christ’s body or we are not, there are not two or more bodies.

Now back to point 11. Is it your contention that one does not have to repent to receive salvation?