Can you really live by Sola Scriptura?

[LoveGodsWord]

I've caught you in some whoppers about the Catholic Church, it doesn't seem to phase you, you seem to just go on with some kind of a script, so often ignoring my questions and launching more attacks.

With all due respect that is not true at all. You have only been provided the truth and the truth is not a lie. You have been provided both scripture, direct quotes from the Roman Catholic Church and historical references from credible sources that are not my words that have been shared with you. They are there for all to see. All you have posted in response like this one is to ignore what was written to you in post 379 linked and posted your opinion unsupported by any fact or evidence while refusing to discuss the post you are quoting from. Go do some more research. I did not write those decrees from the Roman Catholic Church banning the bible to the common people that have been shared with you or the scriptures and other historical references provided to you that are all in disagreement with your opinions here. God is Love and there is only love in telling and following the truth.

Take Care.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Not really. Scripture is Gods inspired recorded written Word and it is for all people. Not the Priests alone written and spoken in a language the people cannot understand and forbidding the people to read Gods' Word for themselves. It was because the Roman Catholic Church had departed the Word in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions and hid the Word (scripture) away from God's people that there was a reformation which brought the Word back to the people of God.

Take Care.

you are mistaken. Oh yes the Church had corrupt men in her, and would we expect no less? The Church would be Satan’s prize conquest, would he not send minions in to attempt to bring about her ruin? And the enemy has stronger renewed attacks today
The proper course would have been fasting and prayer, mortification of the flesh and repentance. A plea for the Lord to help fight against those that would corrupt His Church, but Luther didn’t do that.
In his arrogance, he saw himself as the messiah of a new religion. Although he was a priest, like Judas he turned the Lord to the secular authorities. Separation of church and state began under Luther and his rebellion emboldened the princes to back heresy to enhance their political power. Less than 300 years later we had the French Revolution, we also had Henry VIII break away and become his own church. Many others gave it a go, Calvin, Wesley, and we got the kooky 19th century that stated the cults. Mormonism, Jehovah’s witnesses, Christian Scientists and other off the wall groups.
Has this resulted in world wide revival and repentance? No no a thousand times no, and only if one is honest can they admit it
Most Protestant sects drift toward antinomianism and remove the fear of God. How do I know? I have been there and have seen it. We also see the worst sexual morality of any generation since the child sacrifice of the fires of Moloch. 60,000,000 dead and counting, and Protestants are rationalizing abortion and sexual depravity? Really? This is what we have and call it righteousness? I am in awe of God’s mercy in that He has not sent forth His wrath. There is still time to repent
The seven sacraments were instituted by Christ Himself and the Church had upheld them. We need to avail ourselves of God’s grace and repent.
History is your witness if you are willing to look. I pray that God opens everyone’s eyes and heart before it is too late

 

[SabbathBlessings]

you are mistaken. Oh yes the Church had corrupt men in her, and would we expect no less? The Church would be Satan’s prize conquest, would he not send minions in to attempt to bring about her ruin? And the enemy has stronger renewed attacks today
The proper course would have been fasting and prayer, mortification of the flesh and repentance. A plea for the Lord to help fight against those that would corrupt His Church, but Luther didn’t do that.
In his arrogance, he saw himself as the messiah of a new religion. Although he was a priest, like Judas he turned the Lord to the secular authorities. Separation of church and state began under Luther and his rebellion emboldened the princes to back heresy to enhance their political power. Less than 300 years later we had the French Revolution, we also had Henry VIII break away and become his own church. Many others gave it a go, Calvin, Wesley, and we got the kooky 19th century that stated the cults. Mormonism, Jehovah’s witnesses, Christian Scientists and other off the wall groups.
Has this resulted in world wide revival and repentance? No no a thousand times no, and only if one is honest can they admit it
Most Protestant sects drift toward antinomianism and remove the fear of God. How do I know? I have been there and have seen it. We also see the worst sexual morality of any generation since the child sacrifice of the fires of Moloch. 60,000,000 dead and counting, and Protestants are rationalizing abortion and sexual depravity? Really? This is what we have and call it righteousness? I am in awe of God’s mercy in that He has not sent forth His wrath. There is still time to repent
The seven sacraments were instituted by Christ Himself and the Church had upheld them. We need to avail ourselves of God’s grace and repent.
History is your witness if you are willing to look. I pray that God opens everyone’s eyes and heart before it is too late

No offense to you but the Catholic Church really has no place to preach on sexual morality.
Catholic Church sexual abuse cases - Wikipedia

I studied Luther and I think there has been some history rewritten here. He received death threats from the Catholic Church because he was trying to get the scriptures out to everyone. Jesus said to spread the Word- not hide it.

 

[Valletta]

Nonsense. You have only been provided the truth and the truth is not a lie.

Did I have you pegged or what? I said "Again, if there is some specific item I posted that you doubt I could go over the documentation with you, but I've experienced the tactic of simply launching more accusations every time I refute misinformation" and you filled the next post with tons of new accusations. I expected rather than try and refute one specific fact I presented (since they were of course truthful) you would resort to the same old tactics, on to tons of new anti-Catholic allegations. It seems too much for you to even give the correct name of my Catholic Church, even a small bit of truth! You greatly sadden me, but I know nothing is impossible with God and I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Did I have you pegged or what? I said "Again, if there is some specific item I posted that you doubt I could go over the documentation with you, but I've experienced the tactic of simply launching more accusations every time I refute misinformation" and you filled the next post with tons of new accusations. I expected rather than try and refute one specific fact I presented (since they were of course truthful) you would resort to the same old tactics, on to tons of new anti-Catholic allegations. It seems too much for you to even give the correct name of my Catholic Church, even a small bit of truth! You greatly sadden me, but I know nothing is impossible with God and I will keep you in my prayers.

Sorry dear friend but I respectfully disagree. You have been provided both scripture, direct quotes from the Roman Catholic Church and other supporting Historical references none of which were written by me that you refuse to discuss or respond to because they are in disagreement with you, accept to say they are lies because you say so. Saying you disagree because you say so in the light of so much evidence that is in disagreement with you is not refuting anything and simply ignoring and refusing to discuss what has been shared with you does not make it disappear. The evidence shared with you from the scriptures is God's Word not mine and the historical references and quotes from the Roman Catholic Church you refuse to discuss are written in History and are there for all to see and they disagree with you. Sorry dear friend but I do not believe there is anything else that can be shared with you because you are not open to discussing what is being shared with you so we may have to agree to disagree. Everything you have said and posted has been refuted with both scripture and direct quotes from the Roman Catholic Church and historical references that you refuse to discuss. So lets' leave it for others to decide. I am happy with what has been shared here and have posted honestly and have enjoyed our discussion and the opportunity to share the truth with you and pray that you might take some time to honestly and opening consider what has been shared with you.

Take Care

 

[boughtwithaprice]

No offense to you but the Catholic Church really has no place to preach on sexual morality.
Catholic Church sexual abuse cases - Wikipedia

I studied Luther and I think there has been some history rewritten here. He received death threats from the Catholic Church because he was trying to get the scriptures out to everyone. Jesus said to spread the Word- not hide it.

I fully admit that there are sexual perverts in the Catholic Church; they are a disgrace, and will be judged by God. The Grace of God flows ex opere operato, that is by the Sacrament He commanded, not the righteousness of the minister. The Holy Spirit dispenses grace, not humans. When we obey God's commands, He fulfills His promises; we do not need a human to do that for us

Are the only sources you read, wikipedia and encylopedia britanica?

The Catholic Catechism does not teach sexual immorality. Those that follow it, obey God's command to flee fornication, mortify the deeds of the flesh and bring the libido under the force of will for reproduction, not mere pleasure. Protestant churches teach contraception, and that does not teach a man to control his libido, but to be ruled by it unrestrained. I even have a difficult time finding a protestant to condemn abortion, which is frank murder. I read all sorts of rationalizations and sayings that we need to be forgiving and understanding, but no concern for the danger a soul puts themselves in by procuring or providing an abortion; maybe they don't think a soul ever can be in danger as salvation is viewed as a one time event instead of a battle that ends in heaven. Jesus calls all souls to repent and follow Him; He does not rationalize some sin and condemn others. We need to love Him with our whole heart, mind and soul, not half heartedly with our mouths as we refuse to obey His commands with our bodies.

I studied Luther too, and I do not think that he is as noble a man as you want to make him out to be

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I fully admit that there are sexual perverts in the Catholic Church; they are a disgrace, and will be judged by God. The Grace of God flows ex opere operato, that is by the Sacrament He commanded, not the righteousness of the minister. The Holy Spirit dispenses grace, not humans. When we obey God's commands, He fulfills His promises; we do not need a human to do that for us

Are the only sources you read, wikipedia and encylopedia britanica?

The Catholic Catechism does not teach sexual immorality. Those that follow it, obey God's command to flee fornication, mortify the deeds of the flesh and bring the libido under the force of will for reproduction, not mere pleasure. Protestant churches teach contraception, and that does not teach a man to control his libido, but to be ruled by it unrestrained. I even have a difficult time finding a protestant to condemn abortion, which is frank murder. I read all sorts of rationalizations and sayings that we need to be forgiving and understanding, but no concern for the danger a soul puts themselves in by procuring or providing an abortion; maybe they don't think a soul ever can be in danger as salvation is viewed as a one time event instead of a battle that ends in heaven. Jesus calls all souls to repent and follow Him; He does not rationalize some sin and condemn others. We need to love Him with our whole heart, mind and soul, not half heartedly with our mouths as we refuse to obey His commands with our bodies.

I studied Luther too, and I do not think that he is as noble a man as you want to make him out to be

Just because I quoted a source does not mean that's the only source I read. There are too many news sources on some of the history of the church and innocent little boys and other things. Jesus will judge individuals, which is why its up to individuals, not churches to search Truth in scripture. No church is immune and everyone will be judged by their deeds.

Jesus promises the Holy Spirit will teach us all things and given to those who obey, we do not need a mediator because Jesus is our Mediator and the only Authority to forgive sins. 1 Timothy 2:5, 1 John 1:9, John 14:26, Acts 5:32 so I would be weary of any church who keeps pointing to themselves as the "Authority" and not directly to Jesus.

Regarding Luther, it happened a long time ago and we can only by peoples actions. Luther translated the Bible which allowed God's Word to be made public, the opposite of what the RCC was doing, which they only wanted their priests to interpret scripture thus controlling the narrative. The RCC was doing the complete opposite of what scripture states. If we will be judged individually 1 Cor 2:10 it is up to individuals to have God's Word and it is up to individuals to seek the Truth in God's Word which is why following traditions over God's Word is dangerous and exactly what Jesus Himself warned us about. Matthew 15:3-9

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Just because I quoted a source does not mean that's the only source I read. There are too many news sources on some of the history of the church and innocent little boys and other things. Jesus will judge individuals, which is why its up to individuals, not churches to search Truth in scripture. No church is immune and everyone will be judged by their deeds.

Jesus promises the Holy Spirit will teach us all things and given to those who obey, we do not need a mediator because Jesus is our Mediator and the only Authority to forgive sins. 1 Timothy 2:5, 1 John 1:9, John 14:26, Acts 5:32 so I would be weary of any church who keeps pointing to themselves as the "Authority" and not directly to Jesus.

Regarding Luther, it happened a long time ago and we can only by peoples actions. Luther translated the Bible which allowed God's Word to be made public, the opposite of what the RCC was doing, which they only wanted their priests to interpret scripture thus controlling the narrative. The RCC was doing the complete opposite of what scripture states. If we will be judged individually 1 Cor 2:10 it is up to individuals to have God's Word and it is up to individuals to seek the Truth in God's Word which is why following traditions over God's Word is dangerous and exactly what Jesus Himself warned us about. Matthew 15:3-9

You have things backwards. God did promise His Holy Spirit to a Church. Individuals cannot be trusted. Jesus said He would build His Church and the Gates of hell would not prevail against it. The promise was to a Church, not individuals

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You have things backwards. God did promise His Holy Spirit to a Church. Individuals cannot be trusted. Jesus said He would build His Church and the Gates of hell would not prevail against it. The promise was to a Church, not individuals

Christ is the head of the Church and His body (members) are individuals who follow His teachings and keep His Word, not a denomination.

Let’s see what scripture says:

John 14:22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

John 14:But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 2


Scripture disagrees with you. There is no scripture thats says we need the Catholic Church as a mediator to forgive sins, to teach us scripture to give us the Holy Spirit. You are teaching the exact opposite of what Jesus taught.


1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

We do not need a mediator we can go directly to Jesus as told by scripture. I guess one can follow a church and see if it can save you, for me I choose to follow the Creator of all things, not the creation.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Christ is the head of the Church and His body (members) are individuals who follow His teachings and keep His Word, not a denomination.

Let’s see what scripture says:

John 14:22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

John 14:But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 2


Scripture disagrees with you. There is no scripture thats says we need the Catholic Church as a mediator to forgive sins, to teach us scripture to give us the Holy Spirit. You are teaching the exact opposite of what Jesus taught.


1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

We do not need a mediator we can go directly to Jesus as told by scripture. I guess one can follow a church and see if it can save you, for me I choose to follow the Creator of all things, not the creation.

You will need more than proof texts to prove your point. The whole Bible had to fit together.
1 Tim 2:5 refers to God and all of mankind, not individuals. The only individual that God taught in all His fullness was and is the Virgin Mary, Our Lady and Mother of the Church.
She had the Lord God of all creation grow in her womb for 9 months, and subject Himself to her as His Mother for another 30 years. He revealed His glory and started His earthly ministry at her request at the wedding in Cana. Our Lord had her be mother to His beloved disciple and she watched and guided the Church from the beginning.
Our Lord tells us that the enemy of the Woman is the serpent who we know to be the devil, so its not too hard, when some speak ill of her or refuse her proper honor, to understand where those thoughts are coming from

if what you say is true, then anyone as an individual can claim that God guided them into truth and they are speaking for God, as their understanding of scripture must be right. That is absurd and would be chaos which is pretty much what we see in those that rebel against the Church. Jesus gave authority to the Apostles for a reason, and Paul did not disparage all tradition. He told us to hold fast the traditions taught to you, and we have. Jesus commanded the sacraments and they are faithfully administered, we do not attempt to reason them away, we obey

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You will need more than proof texts to prove your point.

Says the guy who quoted no scripture and only offered his opinion, that is in disagreement with clear scripture.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Says the guy who quoted no scripture and only offered his opinion, that is in disagreement with clear scripture.

May the Lord have mercy, you don’t know what you are doing. I pray you see before it is too late

 

[SabbathBlessings]

May the Lord have mercy, you don’t know what you are doing. I pray you see before it is too late

I keep Jesus Christ the center of my life. I obey His commandments and trust the commandments He gave us are for our own good and I don't need to alter or change His commandments to suit my lifestyle, I adjust my lifestyle to obey God. Exodus 20 If I stumble and fall, which I do, I go directly to Him for the forgiveness of my sins, just like He tells us to do in scripture. 1 John 1:9 I trust in Him that He will teach me all things in scripture, just like He promised John 14:26 and He promises to give His Spirit for those who obey. Acts 5:32 You don't need to worry about me and we should trust the scriptures and commandments of God over mans traditions that Jesus warned us about. Matthew 15:3-9

We should worry about those who don't believe in the promises of Jesus or obey God's Word. God bless

 

[Valletta]

Just because I quoted a source does not mean that's the only source I read. There are too many news sources on some of the history of the church and innocent little boys and other things. Jesus will judge individuals, which is why its up to individuals, not churches to search Truth in scripture. No church is immune and everyone will be judged by their deeds.

Jesus promises the Holy Spirit will teach us all things and given to those who obey, we do not need a mediator because Jesus is our Mediator and the only Authority to forgive sins. 1 Timothy 2:5, 1 John 1:9, John 14:26, Acts 5:32 so I would be weary of any church who keeps pointing to themselves as the "Authority" and not directly to Jesus.

Regarding Luther, it happened a long time ago and we can only by peoples actions. Luther translated the Bible which allowed God's Word to be made public, the opposite of what the RCC was doing, which they only wanted their priests to interpret scripture thus controlling the narrative. The RCC was doing the complete opposite of what scripture states. If we will be judged individually 1 Cor 2:10 it is up to individuals to have God's Word and it is up to individuals to seek the Truth in God's Word which is why following traditions over God's Word is dangerous and exactly what Jesus Himself warned us about. Matthew 15:3-9

You are correct, no one is immune, Jesus did not pull the weeds. Since this is at least the second time you have mentioned the abuse problems in the Catholic Church, I want to reply that today we do not see enough resources being put into SDA and other churches to stop the sexual predators, pointing fingers at what others did in the past won't solve today's problems in SDA, just days ago an SDA guy who taught Bible study in Colorado Springs was arrested. Scripture should be taught from what was passed down from Jesus through the Apostles and popes, not by every individuals personal take. The Catholic Church, as I documented, has widely spread the Word of God to the people. A Catholic named Gutenberg put the Bible out on the printing press. Luther's Bible was not the the first German Bible, but it took off widely. Eventually Protestants put back a number of books of the Bible that Luther had deleted.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are correct, no one is immune, Jesus did not pull the weeds. Unfortunately today we do not see enough resources being put into SDA and other churches to stop the sexual predators, pointing fingers at what others did in the past won't solve today's problems in SDA, just days ago an SDA guy who taught Bible study in Colorado Springs was arrested. Scripture should be taught from what was passed down from Jesus through the Apostles and popes, not by every individuals personal take. The Catholic Church, as I documented, has widely spread the Word of God to the people. A Catholic named Gutenberg put the Bible out on the printing press. Luther's Bible was not the the first German Bible, but it took off widely. Eventually Protestants put back a number of books of the Bible that Luther had deleted.

Yes, no church is immune that is for sure which is why individual's will all be responsible for what they teach and for what they do. I agree scripture should be passed down from Jesus on what He taught, not what was changed by man, which is why its important to go by scripture and not what has been passed down by man, that has changed a lot of scriptures and teachings of Jesus. The SDA church has done its part in spreading the gospel around the world and I pray we will all be ready when Jesus comes. Take care

 

[Valletta]

Sorry dear friend but I respectfully disagree. You have been provided both scripture, direct quotes from the Roman Catholic Church and other supporting Historical references none of which were written by me that you refuse to discuss or respond to because they are in disagreement with you, accept to say they are lies because you say so. Saying you disagree because you say so in the light of so much evidence that is in disagreement with you is not refuting anything and simply ignoring and refusing to discuss what has been shared with you does not make it disappear. The evidence shared with you from the scriptures is God's Word not mine and the historical references and quotes from the Roman Catholic Church you refuse to discuss are written in History and are there for all to see and they disagree with you. Sorry dear friend but I do not believe there is anything else that can be shared with you because you are not open to discussing what is being shared with you so we may have to agree to disagree. Everything you have said and posted has been refuted with both scripture and direct quotes from the Roman Catholic Church and historical references that you refuse to discuss. So lets' leave it for others to decide. I am happy with what has been shared here and have posted honestly and have enjoyed our discussion and the opportunity to share the truth with you and pray that you might take some time to honestly and opening consider what has been shared with you.

Take Care

Someone else's version of what Catholics supposedly said is not a direct quotation. I'm a researcher who has spent thousands of hours just trying to find and read original records, and I don't understand the mindset of those who never or rarely check facts from the supposed source for themselves. Just because someone posts information at a website on the Internet does not make it true. I am familiar with a lot of anti-Catholic hoaxes. Why not, for example, look up the documents at Trent and see for yourself what was actually said? Find out whether your source is completely accurate or not.

 

[Valletta]

Yes, no church is immune that is for sure which is why individual's will all be responsible for what they teach and for what they do. I agree scripture should be passed down from Jesus on what He taught, not what was changed by man, which is why its important to go by scripture and not what has been passed down by man, that has changed a lot of scriptures and teachings of Jesus. The SDA church has done its part in spreading the gospel around the world and I pray we will all be ready when Jesus comes. Take care

Holy Scripture is greatly revered by Catholics, we have had readings at masses from Holy Scripture now for almost 2000 years. We revere what was passed down from Jesus through the Apostles, whether written or spoken and stand fast by the Word of God. We resist what men have tried to change.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Someone else's version of what Catholics supposedly said is not a direct quotation. I'm a researcher who has spent thousands of hours just trying to find and read original records, and I don't understand the mindset of those who never or rarely check facts from the supposed source for themselves. Just because someone posts information at a website on the Internet does not make it true. I am familiar with a lot of anti-Catholic hoaxes. Why not, for example, look up the documents at Trent and see for yourself what was actually said? Find out whether your source is completely accurate or not.

Trouble is you were not provided someone else's version of what the Catholic Church said. You were posted quotes from Roman Catholic Encyclopedia and Catholic Church councils, scripture and other historical references that are all in disagreement you (e.g. decrees from the Roman Catholic Church). I did not write those decrees from the Roman Catholic Church banning the bible to the common people that have been shared with you or the scriptures and other historical references provided to you. They were only provided in love and as a help to the discussion.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Holy Scripture is greatly revered by Catholics, we have had readings at masses from Holy Scripture now for almost 2000 years. We revere what was passed down from Jesus through the Apostles, whether written or spoken and stand fast by the Word of God. We resist what men have tried to change.

Sadly misleading and not true. The reading of scripture in the Roman Catholic Church were only spoken in the Latin language that the majority of people could never understand while forbidding the masses access to the scriptures and persecuting those who sought only to give the bible and God's Word back to the people. (decrees from the Roman Catholic Church)

 

[Valletta]

Trouble is you were not provided someone else's version of what Catholic said. You were posted quotes from Roman Catholic Encyclopedia and Catholic Church councils, scripture and other historical references that are all in disagreement you (e.g. decrees from the Roman Catholic Church). I did not write those decrees from the Roman Catholic Church banning the bible to the common people that have been shared with you or the scriptures and other historical references provided to you. They were only provided in love and as a help to the discussion.

Take Care.

Did the Catholic Church actually write what you claimed at Trent? Did you actually look for yourself? I don't mind going over a quotation once in a while, but I'm not falling for the tactic of ten more for each one refuted, volume rather than quality. See what was said at Trent for yourself, find the actual text and I will be glad to discuss it. As I've said, the Catholic Church has denounced Bibles where material is added or subtracted, that means legitimate translations as well, but the idea is to bring the Word of God to the people. The translation after translation that I stated are all true. Why translate the Word of God into the common language if you were trying to hide if from the people? It doesn't even make any sense, have the courage to check out the statements Trent for yourself.