Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

[SabbathBlessings]

Except Exodus 34:1-28. Not in your Bible?

Where did you get that from, I quoted Exodus 34:1-28 so obviously in my bible Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2 Did all the laws end at the cross- God gave other laws to Moses that Moses wrote Exodus 20:23-33, the Ten Commandments was exactly the same as the first Deuteronomy 10:4 so there is no need to repeat them in Exodus 34, this is an account for the other laws they talked about while God also gave Moses the second set of Ten Commandments Exodus 34:28 that are the EXACT same as Exodus 20 according to scripture.

God bless and take care

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Deleted by Akita. Blessings to the reader.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I am sorry but you addressed nothing about the "Ten Commandments" of 34:1-28. In fact you avoided a straight answer and obfuscated.

Because the Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 20 Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version

Exodus 34 is not where the Ten Commandments are found. Exodus 34 as stated previously is an account for the second set God wrote EXACTLY as the first Deuteronomy 10:4. God also talked about other laws and including the Ten like the Sabbath in Exodus 34, but the Ten Commandments can be found again here according to scripture:
Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version
Exodus 20 BSB

I didn’t avoid anything, I addressed your question more than once. Take care.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Because the Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 20. I didn’t avoid anything, I addressed your question more than once. Take care.

You did not answer at all. Can you tell me where in scripture new tablets are etched and what is on them in YOUR Bible?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You did not answer at all. Can you tell me where in scripture new tablets are etched and what is on them in YOUR Bible?

Lets just take this step by step.

Do you believe these are the Ten Commandments or is Biblegateway and BibleHub and ALL the translators of the Bible wrong in your view?

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version

Exodus 20 BSB

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Lets just take this step by step.

Do you believe these are the Ten Commandments or is Biblegateway and BibleHub and ALL the translators of the Bible wrong in your view?

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version

Exodus 20 BSB

Why are you taking me to Exodus 20 and avoiding 34?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why are you taking me to Exodus 20 and avoiding 34?

I was going to get there, but if you can’t accept a basic fact of scripture that is clearly shown, you can continue in your path of error. I was happy to walk you through it, but it doesn’t seem like you’re interested. Take care and God bless.

 

[Clare73]

I think it’s important to note that God separated His laws from the very beginning. Many want to lump all laws and commandments as one, when God did not. This is an important distinction because once we get to the New Testament we see what exactly ended when Christ became our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins we won’t make the mistake of claiming “all laws” ended, when they did not.

Genesis 26:5
because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.
2 Chronicles 33:8
and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.”

So here we have ordinances, law, statues and commandments. And Moses gave the ordinances by his “hand”.

When we get to the New Covenant God writes His laws in our hearts and mind- so they didn’t end in the New Covenant. Jeremiah 31:33 Hebrews 8:10-12

I hope and pray for those seeking to do the will of God
if you are going to write out obeying God’s commandments

Strawman. . .

you would have clear scripture stating so, if one is seeking to do the will of God and not our own.

Precisely.

God's commandments aren't "written out,"
the loving of one's neighbor has fulfilled God's commandments.
God's commandments have been fulfilled by loving one's neighbor. (Romans 13:8-10)

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Deleted by Akita. Blessings to the reader.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Strawman. . .
Precisely.

God's commandments aren't "written out,"
the loving of one's neighbor has fulfilled God's commandments.
God's commandments have been fulfilled by loving one's neighbor. (Romans 13:8-10)

Scripture appears to disagree with you. God’s law is written in the heart and mind in the New Covenant, Hebrews 8:10 not deleted or “fulfilled” and interpreted as done away with the opposite of what Jesus said. Matthew 5:17-30

The Law of God in the New Testament.
1. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10).
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). "Since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising" (Acts 17:29).
3. "That the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed" (1 Timothy 6:1).
4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).
And they rested, according to the commandment Luke 23:56
5. "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19).
6. "You shall not murder" (Romans 13:9).
7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18).
8. "You shall not steal" (Romans 13:9).
9. "You shall not bear false witness" (Romans 13:9).
10. "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).

The Law of God in the Old Testament.
1. "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).
2. "You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments" (Exodus 20:4–6).
3. "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain" (Exodus 20:7).
4. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it" (Exodus 20:8–11).
5. "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you" (Exodus 20:12).
6. "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13).
7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Exodus 20:14).
8. "You shall not steal" (Exodus 20:15).
9. "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" (Exodus 20:16).
10. "You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's" (Exodus 20:17).


Love fulfills the law when we keep the commandments, not break them according to the clear Word of God.


God says: showing mercy to thousands who love Me, and keep My commandments Exodus 20:6

Jesus says: If you love Me, keep My commandments

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

The saints keep the commandments of God and have the faith in Jesus. Revelation 14:12

We should never harden our hearts to the Truth because the Spirit can’t work in us if we do. We should always seek to do the will of God and not our own, God wrote His law in our hearts and our minds and commanded us to keep His commandments, not break them.

 

[Clare73]

Scripture appears to disagree with you.

What of my own have I presented?

And Scripture does not disagree with itself.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What of my own have I presented?
And Scripture does not disagree with itself.

Scripture does not disagree with itself so when we see

This is the love of God that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3 which reconciles with what it means to fulfill the law by love. Breaking the commandments does not show love to God according to the scriptures. You seem to be arguing otherwise.

 

[Clare73]

Scripture does not disagree with itself so when we see

This is the love of God that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3 which reconciles with what it means to fulfill the law by love. Breaking the commandments does not show love to God according to the scriptures. You seem to be arguing otherwise.

Agreed. . .and loving one's neighbor has fulfilled God's commandments.
God's commandments have been fulfilled by loving one's neighbor. (Romans 13:8-10)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Agreed. . .and loving one's neighbor has fulfilled God's commandments.
God's commandments have been fulfilled by loving one's neighbor. (Romans 13:8-10)

Loving one’s neighbor is fulfilled when we keep the commandments of God, which is the love of God. 1 John 5:3 Love does not murder your neighbor, steal from them, lie, covet what they have etc. etc. which is why love is fulfilled when you keep the commandments of God, this is love.

 

[expos4ever]

We are given the Spirit to obey the commandments John 14:15-18 and the Spirit is given to those who obey. Acts 5:32.

No.

Neither of these text calls for obedience to the Law of Moses, including the 10.

Just a simple contrast of Romans 6 and Romans 8 you should be able to reconcile Paul in Romans 7.

Well, if it is so simple, surely you can make the case.

 

[expos4ever]

This still doesn't help your case. There are still laws and as Paul, Jesus, James all point out the Ten Commandments is still God's law,

Where does Paul point out that the 10 are still part of God's Law?

Where does Jesus point out that the 10 are still part of God's Law? Readers who are following this thread and the other one will know that I presented a detailed argument as to why Jesus is not intending to be taken literally when He says the Law will last till "heaven and earth pass away".

And they will also know that have not mounted a real counterargument to that analysis.

Jesus clearly violated the Sabbath - we can discuss this if you want. If He did violate the Sabbath, how can He believe the 10 are still in force?

As for James, it is at least plausible that James is just commenting on the difficulty in keeping the Law, but that he accepts that it is now retired. But even if James believes the 10 are still in place, I believe the overall weight of scriptural evidence is that the 10 are now retired.

 

[Clare73]

Loving one’s neighbor is fulfilled when we keep the commandments of God,

Not according to NT apostolic teaching, where loving one's neighbor has fulfilled God's commandments.
God's commandments have been fulfilled by loving one's neighbor. (Romans 13:8-10)

 

[expos4ever]

One of the key issues here is understanding that Scripture is not a set of timeless truths, it is, instead an evolving narrative.

If we muzzle the rather obvious fact that the Bible represents an unfolding, advancing redemption story, we can fall into all sorts of traps.

Things changed at the Cross, and radically so. God's long story of redemption reaches its climax at the cross, and many things change.

Think of this, if you will: When Mary Magdalene came to the tomb looking for the body of Jesus, she did not find Him at first; instead, she saw two angels–one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been laid. It was the fulfillment of that to which the ark had pointed - if you recall, the ark had, yes, two angels, one at each end.

We are wise to see this connection - Jesus is the fulfillment - in the completion sense - of the Israel project (and with it, the Law).

 

[Clare73]

One of the key issues here is understanding that Scripture is not a set of timeless truths, it is, instead an evolving narrative.

If we muzzle the rather obvious fact that the Bible represents an unfolding, advancing redemption story, we can fall into all sorts of traps.

Things changed at the Cross, and radically so. God's long story of redemption reaches its climax at the cross, and many things change.
Think of this, if you will: When Mary Magdalene came to the tomb looking for the body of Jesus, she did not find Him at first; instead, she saw two angels–one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been laid. It was the fulfillment of that to which the ark had pointed - if you recall, the ark had, yes, two angels, one at each end.

And the ark being the throne of God (Psalms 99:1, Exodus 25:22; 1 Samuel 4:4; 2 Samuel 6:2),
and they being the foundation of that throne: Justice and Righteousness (Psalms 89:14, Psalms 97:2)

We are wise to see this connection - Jesus is the fulfillment - in the completion sense - of the Israel project (and with it, the Law).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not according to NT apostolic teaching, where loving one's neighbor has fulfilled God's commandments.
God's commandments have been fulfilled by loving one's neighbor. (Romans 13:8-10)

Previously I thought you agreed scripture does not contradict scripture, so why are you doing that?

Love is fulfilled when we keep the commandments, because this IS the love of God.

For this is the love of God, when we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3

So when we break God's commandments, that is not fulfilling love to our neighbor or love to God.

Jesus, the Authoritative over all scripture, disagrees that we can break God's law. Matthew 5:17-30, Matthew 19:17-19 John 14:15