• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Absolute proof.. can't deny.. the earth is flat

Status
Not open for further replies.

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,824
5,857
60
Mississippi
✟325,935.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
7 "He stretches out the north over empty space And hangs the earth on nothing."

The word talah or teleh in The Bible does mean to hang, but it is never used to hang something on nothing, in The Bible.

The word talah or teleh in The Bible Means to hang, suspend, or support by actual contact. never to hang on nothing: thus, to give a few instances/examples

Genesis 40:19 Within three days Pharaoh will lift off your head from you and hang you on a tree; and the birds will eat your flesh from you.”

Psalms 137:2 We hung our harps Upon the willows in the midst of it.

Ezekiel 15:3 Is wood taken from it to make any object? Or can men make a peg from it to hang any vessel on?
 
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
13,917
4,546
72
Franklin, Tennessee
✟298,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If the earth is flat.. it is totally unnecessary.. Gravity is only needed to keep the water and all loose objects on the spinning ball and keep them from flying off. Or, falling off the bottom.
Really? What keeps you from drifting off the face of the earth? One hard jump and, see ya! Next news you'll be bumping your head on that glass dome that had holds the air in and keeps the water out. Unless you croak from hypoxia first - air's pretty thin up there. flat earth or nay.

However, set two billiard balls on a pool table, one millimeter apart and they will never roll together on their own..
Then pick it up and turn it loose. It'll hang there in the air where you left it because there's nothing pulling it down.

If gravity is based on mass... Then how is that possible.. yet Pluto is kept in orbit from a massive distance away.
The sun's the most massive object in the solar system. Biiiiiiiiiig gravity well. Holds tiny planets in orbit and billiard balls on tables.
 
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
13,917
4,546
72
Franklin, Tennessee
✟298,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Zero gravity is a "sphere earth" concept. You don't need it if the entire universe is a plain... Down is down.. you would need a force to keep things up... Without that force.. things fall down.
Why? Why is down down? Sez who? No gravity, no "down". No gravity, no weight. Step off a cliff, you just drift away based on your momentum (you still have mass).

No mysterious tractor beam.. or mysterious force would be necessary to hold things down.
What would? Weighty thoughts? Heavy sighs? Sticky shoes?

There would be no reason for an object to be anywhere but on the ground.
Why? If I want to walk up the wall, what's to hinder me? No mysterous fiorces holding me down, no sirreebob!

It's hard to get past the cognitive dissonance... we have been taught since birth.. But.. No globe.. no need for a gravitational "force".
Sorry mate, but that's simply hilarious.
 
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
13,917
4,546
72
Franklin, Tennessee
✟298,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That's a stretch. Hang two balls. Each from a long thread.. Hang them 1 mm apart.. they still won't gravitate together.
Gravity varies with mass. Pool balls have very little mass, hence don't attract very much. Make then the size of Jupiter, the story changes. <Laugh>
 
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
13,917
4,546
72
Franklin, Tennessee
✟298,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The flat earth has gigantic jet engines underneath it to stop it plummeting downwards!!
The turtle has the engines, the earth is just sitting on his back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lost4words
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
23,880
14,342
60
Sydney, Straya
✟1,465,500.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The word talah or teleh in The Bible does mean to hang, but it is never used to hang something on nothing, in The Bible.
You were given one example where it IS used to hang something on nothing in the Bible, so your statement is false.
The word talah or teleh in The Bible Means to hang, suspend, or support by actual contact. never to hang on nothing
The bold is your addition which is not found in any of the definitions I have seen. Which lexicon did you get this from?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,824
5,857
60
Mississippi
✟325,935.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
You were given one example where it IS used to hang something on nothing in the Bible, so your statement is false.

The bold is your addition which is not found in any of the definitions I have seen. Which lexicon did you get this from?

The Bible interprets The Bible, it is not The Bible is interpreted by science.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Paul4JC
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
23,880
14,342
60
Sydney, Straya
✟1,465,500.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The Bible interprets The Bible, it is not The Bible is interpreted by science.
No one suggested otherwise. You, however, are interpreting certain Scriptures as meaning "flat earth" when there are other valid interpretations. Should not the passage in Job inform us of the correct interpretation of other Scriptures?
You've claimed that the globe earth understanding is of pagan origins when in actual fact, you are using pagan cosmology to interpret the Scriptures as evidenced by that paper by Paul H. Seely you linked to in the other flat earth thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lost4words
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,824
5,857
60
Mississippi
✟325,935.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
No one suggested otherwise. You, however, are interpreting certain Scriptures as meaning "flat earth" when there are other valid interpretations. Should not the passage in Job inform us of the correct interpretation of other Scriptures?
You've claimed that the globe earth understanding is of pagan origins when in actual fact, you are using pagan cosmology to interpret the Scriptures as evidenced by that paper by Paul H. Seely you linked to in the other flat earth thread.

So lets just disregard all the other verses in The Bible, where hang is used. That it is by actual contact on something, no lets just disregard those verses and just out of the blue.

Lets define hang in Job in this verse to say hang here means to hang on nothing. And lets do this not because there is that usage of hang in that way in another verse. But lets do it because science states the earth is a globe floating out in space hanging on nothing.
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,824
5,857
60
Mississippi
✟325,935.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
No one suggested otherwise. You, however, are interpreting certain Scriptures as meaning "flat earth" when there are other valid interpretations. Should not the passage in Job inform us of the correct interpretation of other Scriptures?
You've claimed that the globe earth understanding is of pagan origins when in actual fact, you are using pagan cosmology to interpret the Scriptures as evidenced by that paper by Paul H. Seely you linked to in the other flat earth thread.

Mr Seely writes his paper for people like you not for me as i take the Bible's creation descriptions as literal truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
23,880
14,342
60
Sydney, Straya
✟1,465,500.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
So lets just disregard all the other verses in The Bible, where hang is used. That it is by actual contact on something, no lets just disregard those verses and just out of the blue.

Lets define hang in Job in this verse to say hang here means to hang on nothing. And lets do this not because there is that usage of hang in that way in another verse. But lets do it because science states the earth is a globe floating out in space hanging on nothing.
The verse in Job plainly states "hang on nothing" in describing the earth. None of the other verses using "hang" are in reference to the earth. You are using your belief to nullify God's Word in Job.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Lost4words
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,824
5,857
60
Mississippi
✟325,935.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
The verse in Job plainly states "hang on nothing" in describing the earth. None of the other verses using "hang" are in reference to the earth. You are using your belief to nullify God's Word in Job.

Terra Firma: David Wardlaw Scott
Before leaving this subject of the Circumference, there is one other passage in the Authorised Version of the Bible to which I would like to refer, as it has been made a pretext for believing the
theory of the Earth whirling round the Sun.
It is as follows Job 26:7." He stretcheth out- the North over The empty place, and hangeth the Earth upon nothing "

The Hebrew is — neteh tsephoon ol tehoo tehleh arets ol belimeh,
The proper translation of which is:
"He spreadeth out the North over the desolate' place (the abyss of waters), and supporteth the Earth upon fastenings."

I am much surprised that not only the translators of the Authorized and Revised Versions, but such a distinguished scholar as the late Dr. Robert Young, could have made such a strange mistake, as to say that God " hangeth the Earth upon nothing," which is neither a proper rendering nor common sense ; besides which it distinctly contradicts the Word of God which, in so many other places, declares that the Earth rests upon Foundations. There must be a support for any thing that hangs, and our Modem Astronomers were not long in taking advantage of the above miss translation by saying that, as it was impossible for such a heavy mass as the Earth to stand by itself, the passage must mean that it whirls round the Sun by the force of Gravitation.

But a little examination of two words in the original will soon put matters straight, Shakespeare says,"The Earth hath bubbles, as the water hath,"and the theory of the world rushing around the sun impelled by the hypothetic law of gravitation, is one of the biggest that ever required
pricking

The Hebrew word teleh means to hang, suspend, or support by actual contact. thus, to give a few instances/examples
Genesis 40:19 Within three days Pharaoh will lift off your head from you and hang you on a tree; and the birds will eat your flesh from you.”

Psalms 137:2 We hung our harps Upon the willows in the midst of it.

Ezekiel 15:3 Is wood taken from it to make any object? Or can men make a peg from it to hang any vessel on?


but belimeh wrongly translated "nothing" is the crucial word. Our translators appear to have derived it from the noun blee, signifying consumption or desolation, and the pronoun meh, who which what, but the meaning "nothing" drawn from these words, seems to be very far fetched. Hebrew is a very ancient language, to all probability the most ancient of any, and this being the only place in the Bible where the word belimeh occurs, it is, of course, difficult to test the meaning. I have myself, however, not the slightest doubt, that Parkhurst is right in deriving the noun belimeh from the verb belem, to confine, restrain, or hold in, so used in
Psalm 32:9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no understanding, Which must be harnessed (belem) with bit and bridle, Else they will not come near you.
and that belimeh simply means "fastenings," or "supports," and this interpretation exactly agrees with what JEHOVAH asked Job a little farther on in Job 38:6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone,
But while I consider Parkhurst to be correct as to the rendering of the word belimeh, I believe him to be wrong as to the strange application of it which he makes, when he says — "What can this mean but the columns of light and spirit, between which the Earth is suspended (comp. 1Sam 2: 8), and which, like the two reins of a bridle, hold (if I may be allowed the expression) the mighty steed
within its circular course."*

That Paxkhurst, from the "Record of his Life," was an excellent man, there is every reason to believe, and that he was a profound scholar we know, but he was a Hutchinsonian, and held peculiar views as to the Earth's movements by means of conflicting ethers, which he drags in on every possible occasion. I cannot here enter into his theory, which I consider to be quite untenable, but would refer any who might wish to examine it to an able work by Mr. J. A. Macdonald, " The Principia and the Bible ; a Critique and an Argument." f Bagster's " Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon " also gives the meaning of the verb belem, " to bind, to bridle," and I am informed, on reliable authority, that Breslau also derives belimeh from belem to fasten, but I have not his Lexicon at hand to verify the fact myself.
It is, therefore, evident from the above examination, that the real meaning of belimeh in Job 26:6 is that God supports the Earth upon fastenings, or, in other words, upon "foundations," the truth of which will be fully confirmed in the following Section, in which it will be seen that the Earth is not only stretched out upon the waters which have an impassable circumference, but that it has Immovable Foundations, therefore it cannot be a planet.
 
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
23,880
14,342
60
Sydney, Straya
✟1,465,500.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Terra Firma: David Wardlaw Scott
Before leaving this subject of the Circumference, there is one other passage in the Authorised Version of the Bible to which I would like to refer, as it has been made a pretext for believing the
theory of the Earth whirling round the Sun.
It is as follows Job 26:7." He stretcheth out- the North over The empty place, and hangeth the Earth upon nothing "

The Hebrew is — neteh tsephoon ol tehoo tehleh arets ol belimeh,
The proper translation of which is:
"He spreadeth out the North over the desolate' place (the abyss of waters), and supporteth the Earth upon fastenings."

I am much surprised that not only the translators of the Authorized and Revised Versions, but such a distinguished scholar as the late Dr. Robert Young, could have made such a strange mistake, as to say that God " hangeth the Earth upon nothing," which is neither a proper rendering nor common sense ; besides which it distinctly contradicts the Word of God which, in so many other places, declares that the Earth rests upon Foundations. There must be a support for any thing that hangs, and our Modem Astronomers were not long in taking advantage of the above miss translation by saying that, as it was impossible for such a heavy mass as the Earth to stand by itself, the passage must mean that it whirls round the Sun by the force of Gravitation.

But a little examination of two words in the original will soon put matters straight, Shakespeare says,"The Earth hath bubbles, as the water hath,"and the theory of the world rushing around the sun impelled by the hypothetic law of gravitation, is one of the biggest that ever required
pricking

The Hebrew word teleh means to hang, suspend, or support by actual contact. thus, to give a few instances/examples
Genesis 40:19 Within three days Pharaoh will lift off your head from you and hang you on a tree; and the birds will eat your flesh from you.”

Psalms 137:2 We hung our harps Upon the willows in the midst of it.

Ezekiel 15:3 Is wood taken from it to make any object? Or can men make a peg from it to hang any vessel on?


but belimeh wrongly translated "nothing" is the crucial word. Our translators appear to have derived it from the noun blee, signifying consumption or desolation, and the pronoun meh, who which what, but the meaning "nothing" drawn from these words, seems to be very far fetched. Hebrew is a very ancient language, to all probability the most ancient of any, and this being the only place in the Bible where the word belimeh occurs, it is, of course, difficult to test the meaning. I have myself, however, not the slightest doubt, that Parkhurst is right in deriving the noun belimeh from the verb belem, to confine, restrain, or hold in, so used in
Psalm 32:9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no understanding, Which must be harnessed (belem) with bit and bridle, Else they will not come near you.
and that belimeh simply means "fastenings," or "supports," and this interpretation exactly agrees with what JEHOVAH asked Job a little farther on in Job 38:6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone,
But while I consider Parkhurst to be correct as to the rendering of the word belimeh, I believe him to be wrong as to the strange application of it which he makes, when he says — "What can this mean but the columns of light and spirit, between which the Earth is suspended (comp. 1Sam 2: 8), and which, like the two reins of a bridle, hold (if I may be allowed the expression) the mighty steed
within its circular course."*

That Paxkhurst, from the "Record of his Life," was an excellent man, there is every reason to believe, and that he was a profound scholar we know, but he was a Hutchinsonian, and held peculiar views as to the Earth's movements by means of conflicting ethers, which he drags in on every possible occasion. I cannot here enter into his theory, which I consider to be quite untenable, but would refer any who might wish to examine it to an able work by Mr. J. A. Macdonald, " The Principia and the Bible ; a Critique and an Argument." f Bagster's " Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon " also gives the meaning of the verb belem, " to bind, to bridle," and I am informed, on reliable authority, that Breslau also derives belimeh from belem to fasten, but I have not his Lexicon at hand to verify the fact myself.
It is, therefore, evident from the above examination, that the real meaning of belimeh in Job 26:6 is that God supports the Earth upon fastenings, or, in other words, upon "foundations," the truth of which will be fully confirmed in the following Section, in which it will be seen that the Earth is not only stretched out upon the waters which have an impassable circumference, but that it has Immovable Foundations, therefore it cannot be a planet.
The Hebrew scribes who translated the Old Testament into Greek disagree. I trust their knowledge of their own language over your 'experts'
 
Upvote 0

Lost4words

Jesus I Trust In You
Site Supporter
May 19, 2018
11,802
12,531
Neath, Wales, UK
✟1,245,053.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Mr Seely writes his paper for people like you not for me as i take the Bible's creation descriptions as literal truth.

Do you take the whole of scripture as literal?
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,824
5,857
60
Mississippi
✟325,935.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
The Hebrew scribes who translated the Old Testament into Greek disagree. I trust their knowledge of their own language over your 'experts'

Another point you seem to fail to understand is that earth in The Bible does not mean a water covered sphere with scattered land areas on it.

Earth in The Bible simply is speaking about land/ground.
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
13,824
5,857
60
Mississippi
✟325,935.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Do you take the whole of scripture as literal?

I like this thought stated by David L. Cooper

When The Plain Sense of Scripture Makes Common Sense, Seek no Other Sense; Therefore, Take Every Word at its Primary, Ordinary, Usual, Literal Meaning
Unless the Facts of the Immediate Context, Studied in the Light of Related Passages and Axiomatic and Fundamental Truths Indicate Clearly Otherwise.

Example when the word light is used, in everyday use, I think of light. So when light is used in The Bible i see it as the everyday use of the word light.

Now as the quote states in The Biblical context, if there is reason to apply another meaning to the word and use of light . Where it would not mean the everyday use of light as light. Then if The Bible uses it that way, then it would be understood in that specific context, light would not mean light.
But the context would define how light is being used in this specific area of scripture.

But never do i let science define how i see words and their use in The Bible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

Lost4words

Jesus I Trust In You
Site Supporter
May 19, 2018
11,802
12,531
Neath, Wales, UK
✟1,245,053.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
I like this thought stated by David L. Cooper

When The Plain Sense of Scripture Makes Common Sense, Seek no Other Sense; Therefore, Take Every Word at its Primary, Ordinary, Usual, Literal Meaning
Unless the Facts of the Immediate Context, Studied in the Light of Related Passages and Axiomatic and Fundamental Truths Indicate Clearly Otherwise.

Example when the word light is used, in everyday use, I think of light. So when light is used in The Bible i see it as the everyday use of the word light.

Now as the quote states in The Biblical context, if there is reason to apply another meaning to the word and use of light . Where it would not mean the everyday use of light as light. Then if The Bible uses it that way, then it would be understood in that specific context, light would not mean light.
But the context would define how light is being used in this specific area of scripture.

But never do i let science define how i see words and their use in The Bible.

Simple question, simple answer,

Do you take everything written in the Bible as literal?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.