THE TRUTH ABOUT THE STATE OF THE DEAD?

[ChetSinger]

SDA's do not teach soul sleep. They teach the bible view on the state of the dead or what happens when we die. Please read the OP. The body returning to dust and the spirit (breath of life) returns to God who gave it and that the dead in Christ will rise at the second coming in the first resurrection.

SDA's do not teach soul sleep? Only Jehovah's Witnesses do? OK, now I'm completely confused. Because in post #2 you said this:

I will post some more throughout the thread. What are your thoughts? I think a very good scriptural case can be made for soul sleep from the scriptures in my view. What is yours?​

And in post #17 you said this:

This is not true. The term "soul sleep" is new but as shown in the scriptures and the very words of Jesus death as a sleep has been used in the scriptures for 1000's of years before the new covenant Church ever existed.​

And in post #31 you said this:

I only posted that reference to show that not only was the view of soul sleep held through out the old testament and Jesus and the Apostles through the scriptures but also not long after all through time to this present day.​

And in post #53 you said this:

Not at all Paul support soul sleep as does the rest of the bible as shown on page one in the many posts and scriptures already provided.​

Are you mincing words? How does the SDA not teach soul sleep if you, an apologist for your church, has been championing it on this thread? I'm baffled.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

SDA's do not teach soul sleep? Only Jehovah's Witnesses do? OK, now I'm completely confused. Because in post #2 you said this:

I will post some more throughout the thread. What are your thoughts? I think a very good scriptural case can be made for soul sleep from the scriptures in my view. What is yours?​

And in post #17 you said this:

This is not true. The term "soul sleep" is new but as shown in the scriptures and the very words of Jesus death as a sleep has been used in the scriptures for 1000's of years before the new covenant Church ever existed.​

And in post #31 you said this:

I only posted that reference to show that not only was the view of soul sleep held through out the old testament and Jesus and the Apostles through the scriptures but also not long after all through time to this present day.​

And in post #53 you said this:

Not at all Paul support soul sleep as does the rest of the bible as shown on page one in the many posts and scriptures already provided.​

Are you mincing words? How does the SDA not teach soul sleep if you, an apologist for your church, has been championing it on this thread? I'm baffled.

You have a misunderstanding. As posted above the term soul sleep is new and not the same as the bible. As posted earlier we believe the bibles version which is that the body returns to dust and the Spirit (breath of life) returns to God who gave it. Where as the new teachings of Soul sleep is that of an unconscious person sleeping in the grave. This is not what we teach or believe and is not biblical. Perhaps some of the confusion my be how I have worded some things. I will look to check and correct them so they are clear. Thanks for pointing them out although some of those posts you listed are taken from context (e.g post 17 says within it's context that it is referring to death as a sleep). We teach "state of the dead referred to in the bible as a sleep" or what the bible says happens when we die. That is as posted earlier that the body returns to dust and the Spirit (breath of life) to God who gave it until the 2nd coming and the resurrection for most people.

 

[ChetSinger]

You have a misunderstanding. As posted above the term soul sleep is new and not the same as the bible. As posted earlier we believe the bibles version which is that the body returns to dust and the Spirit (breath of life) returns to God who gave it. Where as the new teachings of Soul sleep is that of an unconscious person sleeping in the grave. This is not what we teach or believe and is not biblical. Perhaps some of the confusion my be how I have worded some things. I will look to check and correct them so they are clear. Thanks for pointing them out although some of those posts you listed are taken from context (e.g post 17 says within it's context that it is referring to death as a sleep). We teach "state of the dead referred to in the bible as a sleep" or what the bible says happens when we die. That is as posted earlier that the body returns to dust and the Spirit (breath of life) to God who gave it until the 2nd coming and the resurrection for most people.

OK. Then back to my original question: are there any other denominations which believe as yours does regarding this?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

OK. Then back to my original question: are there any other denominations which believe as yours does regarding this?

I do not know to be honest Chet. My op is not from my church it is from my own bible study of the scriptures and also posts from what some others made from the scriptures that I thought might be helpful to the OP.

 

[Davy]

A kind advice: Don't post tons of text at once, then people will just skip the whole thread.

If we are asleep in the graves, how come Moses was with Jesus at the mount of transfiguration? The Scripture you posted says Moses was asleep.

But some who don't really understand their Bible like to post a WHOLE LOT... of Scripture references (that you have to go look up); it's a ploy to make others think they know what they're talking about, when actually they do not, because they know you aren't going to take time to look up all... of those references! So they think to use most of those as cannon fodder to support their doctrine, when actually they do not.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

But some who don't really understand their Bible like to post a WHOLE LOT... of Scripture references (that you have to go look up); it's a ploy to make others think they know what they're talking about, when actually they do not, because they know you aren't going to take time to look up all... of those references! So they think to use most of those as cannon fodder to support their doctrine, when actually they do not.

Yes that is why I like to prayerfully check everyone claims against the scriptures they post as proof texts examining both context and subject matter to the rest of the bible to see examine if what they are claiming is true or not which is what I normally do in all my responses.

 

[Sunshinee777]

1. Lazarus dies and is called "asleep" by Jesus, even though he is clearly dead.

How do you know we don’t sleep when we die? Except how science teaches that when you die and when your brain die, you can’t dream dreams? Sorry my English I hope you get what I mean.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

How do you know we don’t sleep when we die? Except how science teaches that when you die and when your brain die, you can’t dream dreams? Sorry my English I hope you get what I mean.

According to the scriptures when we do die we do not know anything and the body returns to dust and the Spirit which is simply Gods breath of life returns to God who gave it. (see Ecclesiastes 9:5; Genesis 2:7 and Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 3:20)

God bless

 

[Sunshinee777]

According to the scriptures when we do die we do not know anything and the body returns to dust and the Spirit which is simply Gods breath of life returns to God who gave it. (see Ecclesiastes 9:5; Genesis 2:7 and Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 3:20)

God bless

Can you quote scripture where it says ”we don’t know anything when we are dead” in scripture, thanks. I just don’t see it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Can you quote scripture where it says ”we don’t know anything when we are dead” in scripture, thanks. I just don’t see it.

Yes I did in the very post you are quoting from. It says it word for word. How can you not see it?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 [5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[Sunshinee777]

Yes I did in the very post you are quoting from. It says it word for word. How can you not see it?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 [5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Thanks, I did see this verse but I don’t see this verse as you see it. So if this is your only explanation for my question then I disagree. God bless you.

 

[Butch5]

How do you know we don’t sleep when we die? Except how science teaches that when you die and when your brain die, you can’t dream dreams? Sorry my English I hope you get what I mean.

What would sleep when one dies?

 

[Butch5]

Thanks, I did see this verse but I don’t see this verse as you see it. So if this is your only explanation for my question then I disagree. God bless you.

Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (Ps. 146:3-4 KJV)

Can't know anything without thoughts.

But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding. (Job 32:8 NKJ)

The breath or spirit of God gives man understanding. We are told in Scripture that when a man dies that breath or spirit returns to God. Since it is the breath or spirit that gives man understanding, if it is gone so is man's ability to understand.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Thanks, I did see this verse but I don’t see this verse as you see it. So if this is your only explanation for my question then I disagree. God bless you.

You say where is the text that says the dead do not know anything? You were posted the scripture that says word for word the dead do not know anything and you say it does not say the dead do not know anything?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 [5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead do not know anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Why do you think that when the scripture says word for word that the dead do not know anything it does not really say the dead do not know anything?

Sorry I am a little confused by your response or why you say you disagree.

 

[michael21]

Thanks, I did see this verse but I don’t see this verse as you see it. So if this is your only explanation for my question then I disagree. God bless you.

I think God would agree with your pov:
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
Luke20:38&39
And of course, the bible is quite clear that Christ, when he was crucified went and made proclamation of the message to those who had previously died(1Peter3:18&19) You obviously cannot proclaim a message to anyone who cannot be receptive to it However, I think your above response is the best to give in the circumstances. God bless

 

[A_JAY]

Okay. I was nearly 60 years old when I even heard of the term soul sleep. Our church had this preacher candidate who preached the horrors and blasphemy of soul sleep. I was suspicious of the sermon and the reason that sermon was the one he chose to present to us. Luckily, we rejected him. Additionally, I think we would have roundly rejected somebody who professed in soul sleep.

I do remember a verse in Thessalonians I think where it mentions we shall not all sleep.

Us Baptists liked to talk about talking to Jesus when we're gone, meeting our dear departed relatives. So we wouldn't particularly fertile field for that type of belief.

What bothers me Is the reason why parties in Christianity obsess about this both positively and negatively. It just smacks of a totally non-essential belief, and heterodox.

 

[ChetSinger]

What bothers me Is the reason why parties in Christianity obsess about this both positively and negatively. It just smacks of a totally non-essential belief, and heterodox.

I agree it's a non-essential belief. As I understand it the thread is here in Controversial Christian Theology exactly because soul sleep is heterodox and isn't permitted in the other theology forums.

 

[Butch5]

The problem comes from people trying to marry a Biblical concept with a non-Biblical concept. In the Bible sleep is used as a metaphor for death. When people die they are said to be asleep. This is because death and the Resurrection are seen as sleeping an later waking up. The problem arises when people try to marry to this idea the non-Biblical idea that some part of man lives on after death. Since, they buy into the Greek idea that man is alive after death they have to make this idea fit with the Scriptures. The solution they've come up with is that the soul is alive, but asleep, rather than dead, which wouldn't fit with their Greek concept that man lives on after death. The teaching of the Bible is that the dead are dead.

 

[Davy]

You have a misunderstanding. As posted above the term soul sleep is new and not the same as the bible. As posted earlier we believe the bibles version which is that the body returns to dust and the Spirit (breath of life) returns to God who gave it. Where as the new teachings of Soul sleep is that of an unconscious person sleeping in the grave. This is not what we teach or believe and is not biblical. Perhaps some of the confusion my be how I have worded some things. I will look to check and correct them so they are clear. Thanks for pointing them out although some of those posts you listed are taken from context (e.g post 17 says within it's context that it is referring to death as a sleep). We teach "state of the dead referred to in the bible as a sleep" or what the bible says happens when we die. That is as posted earlier that the body returns to dust and the Spirit (breath of life) to God who gave it until the 2nd coming and the resurrection for most people.

That above still is the Old Testament idea of 'soul sleep', because soul sleep is indeed the 'belief' that one's soul is asleep until the resurrection, as even the blind Pharisees believed in the resurrection.

Nor is soul sleep a 'new' or modern idea. It was an early belief of the Jews. And the Jews used that idea in the Old Testament about the dust returning to the earth, and the spirit going back to God, as to mean one's spirit only meant an animate life force in all things.

But thank God, because we are not like plants and animals, in that we have a soul that Lord Jesus revealed that continues after death of the flesh, as written in Matthew 10:28. The New Testament is clear that we do NOT literally sleep in the grave after death of our flesh. Our spirit part and our soul are linked together in the heavenly.

 

[Davy]

The problem comes from people trying to marry a Biblical concept with a non-Biblical concept. In the Bible sleep is used as a metaphor for death. When people die they are said to be asleep. This is because death and the Resurrection are seen as sleeping an later waking up. The problem arises when people try to marry to this idea the non-Biblical idea that some part of man lives on after death. Since, they buy into the Greek idea that man is alive after death they have to make this idea fit with the Scriptures. The solution they've come up with is that the soul is alive, but asleep, rather than dead, which wouldn't fit with their Greek concept that man lives on after death. The teaching of the Bible is that the dead are dead.

If you doubt that our soul does not continue in life after our flesh is dead, then it means you doubt Lord Jesus and His Word...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

That in red of course means, just because the flesh dies, the soul does not, but continues to have life.

1 Peter 3 about the "spirits in prison" that Jesus preached The Gospel to at His resurrection is also proof that we are not literally asleep in the grave when our flesh dies. Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 5 also verified this fact.

It's really those who follow the religion of the Jews that keep pushing the idea that the soul is literally asleep when we die.