No text says that --
Matt 26 Jesus said 38 Then He *said to them, “My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me.”
Yet Jesus was alive at that point in Matt 26 -- Alive BOTH body and soul at the time.
Is it your contention that Isaiah 53:12 is not Scripture? I posted it twice. It plainly says He poured out His soul unto death. This passage has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
"they kill the body BUT NOT the soul" Matt 10:28 in the first death.
Again, consider another understanding of this passage.
The decayed back-to-dust body is not sleeping. In fact 1 Cor 15 clearly says that the body that is resurrected is NOT the body that died.
The body that dies never comes back - it returns to dust and is gone. An entirely new body is needed as 2 Cor 5:1-5 states.
And I showed that Matt 26 , “My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me.” - did not mean Jesus was dead while praying in the garden.
No, it meant He grieved to the point that He could die. Many people have been grieved to the point they wanted to die. It doesn't mean they were dead at that time. It also doesn't mean they never died. It's simply an expression. Paul said, "I die daily". Would anyone argue that Paul died and was resurrected every single day? Obviously not. It's an expression.
"unto death" and "to the point of death" refer to the fact that his body would die but no text says "his soul died" since we the very explicit statement that at death "they are able to kill the body but NOT the soul" Matt 10:28. And that is why both Jesus and Stephen make these emphatic statements of faith about God receiving their spirit.
Because you believe that a soul is something that lives on after death, you are lead to misunderstand Mathew 28. Man can kill the body, but he cannot ultimately end one's life. The Bible tells us that God holds our lives in His hand. If someone is killed they're dead. However, God could easily give them life 10 minutes later and they'd be alive . So, while make can kill the body, he cannot end the life (soul) because God has the final say over one's life (soul).
My friend, I see in this post and previously, you're conflating soul and spirit. They are NOT the same thing.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath
life
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is
life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ge 1:29–31.
9 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But
flesh with the life thereof,
which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. 5 And surely
your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man’s brother will I require
the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. 7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ge 9.
In this passage, the words, life and lives, are the Hebrew word Nephesh, soul. According to this passage we have, the flesh of the soul. Which, according to this passage is, the blood thereof. So, the soul of the flesh, according to this passage is the blood. Then God says for the blood of men's souls, He will require men's souls. Then He explains it. Whoever sheds man's blood, will have their blood shed by men. This is clearly an explanation of death. This passage, just like Gen 2:7 ties the body and the soul intrinsically together. We have the soul being equated with the blood. The shedding of blood is clearly death. In death life ceases. Thus in death, the soul ceases.
31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction
for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but
he shall be surely put to death.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Nu 35:30–31.
In these passages the word translated life is Nephesh, soul.
13 Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead
body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Hag 2:12–13.
Here in this passage we have a dead body, a dead NEPHESH, a dead soul.
14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my
soul to destroy it;
Let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ps 40:14.
If the soul is some immaterial part of man that cannot die, why does David say men are seeking to destroy his soul. You've quoted the passage from Mathew 28 several times that says man cannot kill the soul. Why then is David saying these men were seeking to destroy his soul?
13 For thou hast delivered my
soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling,
That I may walk before God in the light of the living?
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ps 56:13.
If a soul can't die, how did God save his soul from death?
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall
save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jas 5:19–20.
If souls can't die, what is James talking about?
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is,
eight souls were saved by water
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Pe 3:19–20.
Eight souls were saved. The rest died.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and
every living soul died in the sea.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Re 16:3.
Every living soul in the sea died. How can that be if souls don't die?
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and
lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Mt 16:25–26.
If souls don't die how can a man lose his soul?
These are just a few of the passages that show a soul can die and that it is intrinsically tied to the body.
The Greek and Hebrew words, Pneuma and Nephesh, translated soul are used two ways in Scripture. In a concrete sense they refer to a living being. In an abstract sense they refer to life itself. But they are not used of some immaterial part of man that lives on after death.
1 Cor 15 and 2 Cor 5 are very specific that it is a DIFFERENT body at the resurrection. Because it is the SAME soul/spirit but a different physical body. This is why martyrs could be burned and ashes scattered or old saints turned to dust or eaten by lions and yet the resurrection still works. The resurrection is not concerned with the old atoms.
1 Cor 15
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” 36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of mankind, another flesh of animals, another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body
He's describing different bodies. Look at what he says. That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies. He's saying that which is planted comes to life. He didn't say you plant a seed and some other plant comes to life. Also, note what else he said, "It is sown a perishable
body, it is raised
an imperishable body". The "it" refers to the same body. "IT" the body is sown, (dies and returns to dust) a perishable body. "IT" the body that was sown (died and returned to dust) is raised an imperishable body. It's the same body, however, it as qualities that it didn't previously have.
2 Cor 5:
For we know that if our earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made by hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For indeed, in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 3 since in fact after putting it on, we will not be found naked. 4 For indeed, we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave us the Spirit as a pledge.
Who/what is the "WE" that has this body torn down and "puts on another one" - a heavenly one eternal , in the heavens?
It is the Soul of Matt 10:28 that does NOT die when the body of Matt 10:28 DOES die.
No, it's not. This is why I posted the passage from Peter that says some of what Paul says is hard to understand. In this passage Paul is refuting the Greek philosophical idea that the dead are alive after the body dies. It was the goal of the Greeks to escape the body and ascend into the heavens. Notice, Paul is speaking of two different states of being, one is mortal and the other is immortal. The earthly is the mortal state. The Hevenly is the eternal state. He says, "in this tent we groan" or in this mortal state we groan. Then the passage says, "longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven". What is missed in the English translation is that Paul used a word for clothed that literally means, to put on over or to overclothe. It's like someone putting on a coat over their regular clothes. Now, why does Paul speak of being naked? Well, if we look at what the Greeks believed, they believed that the soul would leave the body, thus it would be naked. Paul is saying we don't want to be naked, we don't want to leave our bodies. We want to be "overclothed". We want to put our new state (immortality) on over top of our present state of corruption. He furthers this point when he says, "that this mortal will be swallowed up by life". In other words, he's not wanting to leave his body, he wants immortality to swallow up or envelope his mortality. This idea is diametrically opposed to the Greek thinking that was rampant in Athens and Corinth and was creeping into the Corinthian church, which we see in that some were already denying the resurrection.
The difference between resurrection and re-incarnation is that in the story of re-incarnation the same soul/spirit is revived via pro-creation - natural child birth and its prior body may not even have been human at all.
But in resurrection the same soul/spirit is awakened/revived in a body instantly created by God at the resurrection at an age appearance consistent in some way with its former human form.
Sorry, but the concept of re-incarnation is that of moving from body to body. That is exactly what you are espousing here. The idea of resurrection is that a body that dies will live again.
You also haven't answered several of my questions. I asked regarding several passages, did the life end? I also asked if you'd define soul so I can understand your argument. Otherwise I'm left to guess at what you mean when you say soul.
