Refusing to be vaccinated against Covid-19 is a ’sin’ & anti-vaxxers must spend their life repenting

[Dorothea]

As always, it's great when you are around, Thekla.

 

[Dorothea]

Fr. Spyridon explains this situation so well and how we should be toward each other. It's what I've believed from the start. People have the freedom and free will to choose whether or not to receive this shot or medicine or whatever. It is each person's choice and shouldn't be judged and ridiculed in whatever choice they make.

 

[prodromos]

Oh my ! It’s been a while since I’ve been here, but what a division to walk into

Nice to see another old timer

 

[Thekla]

Nice to see another old timer

Thanks ! It’s good to see you’re still here too

 

[Thekla]

yeah, it can be heated.

welcome back, though!

Thanks !

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thanks !

no problem!

 

[abacabb3]

Don't take it from me, ask Met. Tikhon. I'm sure he will be happy to counsel you on this.

Tapi, you didn't answer my question. You said people are morally culpable for spreading infection at church if they are not vaccinated. Due to there being breakthrough infections, do you wear a N95 when you worship at church? And if not, why, wouldn't that make you culpable of being a potential vector?

This is an extremely honest question. I still wear my N95 every Sunday, out of full disclosure.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

I do understand where you are coming from. It does seem reasonable if a relatively heavyweight hierarch supports your position. Only hierarchs don’t actually have authority to command the laity on this. Your priest does not have the authority to tell you to do 30 push-ups if you are late to the Liturgy. It’s not in the consensus of our Tradition for hierarchs to order us to do anything except that which Tradition mandates. We don’t agree on the medical or scientific opinions they subscribe to, and they can’t order us to do things. We might condescend to voluntarily (and briefly) accommodate them out of love, but again, it is purely voluntary.

Sadly, anything beyond his view is just a "lack of wit" and stupidity. We all just lack his supreme intelligence to blindly follow government. He has no response, just his dogmatic position.

 

[rusmeister]

The general problems I see here are twofold - one is a readiness to be unkind to brethren in the Church; love without truth is indeed both untruthful and ultimately unloving, but truth without love is... We should all strive to avoid characterizing others maliciously, even if we are right.

The other is the partisan position of elitism, which is an extension of the heresy of Meliorism, of “knowing better than the Church”, which is not merely a bishop or even a group of bishops, but of the Church over space and time. At its best, removing charges of “stupidity” and “lesser wit” as such, it still posits that one knows better than the mass of the common people because of education, or science, elevating them to an unwarranted position of authority in the Church. It is a form of pride that assumes superior intelligence, and is akin to Gnosticism. In the form we see here, it can even be a form of the lust for power or others.

But it’s ultimately not even intelligent, the one positive trait claimed by its adherents: “It is stupid to say that "most people" are stupid. It is like saying "most people are tall," when it is obvious that "tall" can only mean taller than most people. It is absurd to denounce the majority of mankind as below the average of mankind.”

 

[tapi]

Tapi, you didn't answer my question. You said people are morally culpable for spreading infection at church if they are not vaccinated. Due to there being breakthrough infections, do you wear a N95 when you worship at church? And if not, why, wouldn't that make you culpable of being a potential vector?

This is an extremely honest question. I still wear my N95 every Sunday, out of full disclosure.

Due to better handling of the Coronavirus situation as of late (as compared to the initial strategies of Anders Tegnell), and the ongoing vaccinations , the coronavirus cases in the whole country are down to just a few hundred per day (in comparison, in Spring we had 5000-10000 per day). As it stands, as I am in Stockholm, I use a mask in the services, but in more rural areas things are going back to normal, with some counties reporting zero cases for weeks etc, as such there is no longer a need for mask use there.

Paradoxically, the anti-vaxxers are prolonging the "new normal" in areas where they constitute a substantial % of the population (nowhere in Scandinavia, but in Red States for example). The vaccines have demonstrably good results in both preventing the disease, and in the cases where a vaccinated person becomes infected, mitigating the severity of the disease. I have not heard of even one substantial side-effect, and most of my extended family, friends, acquaintances etc are all vaccinated, the number must amount to over 500 people so far.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

Due to better handling of the Coronavirus situation as of late (as compared to the initial strategies of Anders Tegnell), and the ongoing vaccinations , the coronavirus cases in the whole country are down to just a few hundred per day (in comparison, in Spring we had 5000-10000 per day). As it stands, as I am in Stockholm, I use a mask in the services, but in more rural areas things are going back to normal, with some counties reporting zero cases for weeks etc, as such there is no longer a need for mask use there.

Paradoxically, the anti-vaxxers are prolonging the "new normal" in areas where they constitute a substantial % of the population (nowhere in Scandinavia, but in Red States for example). The vaccines have demonstrably good results in both preventing the disease, and in the cases where a vaccinated person becomes infected, mitigating the severity of the disease. I have not heard of even one substantial side-effect, and most of my extended family, friends, acquaintances etc are all vaccinated, the number must amount to over 500 people so far.

Well, your anecdote doesn't mean too much over the anecdotes of others.

 

[tapi]

Well, your anecdote doesn't mean too much over the anecdotes of others.

Just related my personal experience. If we look at the data coming in, the number of complications is very, very low.

It is quite disturbing to see, even guys who claim to be physicians such as our Antoni here, cite "reports" asserting astounding number of complications and deaths based on disinformation put out by quack sites without any correlation to reality. I can to some extent understand it from the less-informed (I mean, last summer we had some members quote the lady who asserts that ovarian cancer results from sex with astral spirit husbands as a legitimate source for medical information), but from a doctor it's just mind-boggling.

In the VAERS and EMA databases, the reports consist of a humongous number of standard physical conditions that have occurred to folks who have been vaccinated in the last few months (so, to hundreds of millions of people by now). VAERS/EMA reports do not show whether an adverse event was caused by the vaccine or occurred coincidentally. For example, if a person with a history of severe coronary disease dies of myocardial infarct, it will be included in the bulk of cases to be examined. That's called transparency and good science.

 

[abacabb3]

Due to better handling of the Coronavirus situation as of late (as compared to the initial strategies of Anders Tegnell), and the ongoing vaccinations , the coronavirus cases in the whole country are down to just a few hundred per day (in comparison, in Spring we had 5000-10000 per day). As it stands, as I am in Stockholm, I use a mask in the services, but in more rural areas things are going back to normal, with some counties reporting zero cases for weeks etc, as such there is no longer a need for mask use there.

Paradoxically, the anti-vaxxers are prolonging the "new normal" in areas where they constitute a substantial % of the population (nowhere in Scandinavia, but in Red States for example). The vaccines have demonstrably good results in both preventing the disease, and in the cases where a vaccinated person becomes infected, mitigating the severity of the disease. I have not heard of even one substantial side-effect, and most of my extended family, friends, acquaintances etc are all vaccinated, the number must amount to over 500 people so far.

So, by a small degree, you put people at risk when you are in rural areas or don't wear an N95 mask.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

Just related my personal experience. If we look at the data coming in, the number of complications is very, very low.

It is quite disturbing to see, even guys who claim to be physicians such as our Antoni here, cite "reports" asserting astounding number of complications and deaths based on disinformation put out by quack sites without any correlation to reality. I can to some extent understand it from the less-informed (I mean, last summer we had some members quote the lady who asserts that ovarian cancer results from sex with astral spirit husbands as a legitimate source for medical information), but from a doctor it's just mind-boggling.

In the VAERS and EMA databases, the reports consist of a humongous number of standard physical conditions that have occurred to folks who have been vaccinated in the last few months (so, to hundreds of millions of people by now). VAERS/EMA reports do not show whether an adverse event was caused by the vaccine or occurred coincidentally. For example, if a person with a history of severe coronary disease dies of myocardial infarct, it will be included in the bulk of cases to be examined. That's called transparency and good science.

And transparency is why they removed the employer reporting mandate?

 

[Antoni]

This was posted today by the inventor of mRNA technology. I think his qualifications should speak for itself.

mrna inventor tells it all on July 19,2021

 

[prodromos]

This was posted today by the inventor who of mRNA technology. I think his qualifications should speak for itself.

I can't see the attachment in your post, but when I replied, it appeared in the quote of your post. Weird!?

And if I reply to your post now, it doesn't appear. Even weirder.

I can see it in the link you added. Thanks.

 

[Basil the Great]

I do not blame anyone who is afraid of the vaccine, for whatever reason, as long as they wear a mask whenever they are out in public. Sadly, those who are not vaccinated seem to be the ones least likely to wear masks.

 

[prodromos]

Sadly, those who are not vaccinated seem to be the ones least likely to wear masks.

That hasn't been my experience.

 

[Bobber]

Nowadays, it seems to us, most people believe more strongly in science and human medicine than in the saving power of God. This has been our observation. It's a thing we ought to worry about more than catching a physical disease - no matter how deadly.

Excellent point.

 

[Bobber]

And now, taking care of young patients with mi’s and strokes because of this experimental gene therapy.

So would you say there's a great many you've seen with this. How widespread are the numbers that you've seen?