Refusing to be vaccinated against Covid-19 is a ’sin’ & anti-vaxxers must spend their life repenting

[Antoni]

So would you say there's a great many you've seen with this. How widespread are the numbers that you've seen?

as an absolute number, it wouldn’t be consider “a great many”, but relative to what I have seen as an ER doc for over 20 years, it is. More in the past 6 months than I have seen in the preceding 20+ years (that is, mi’s and cva’s in young patients with no other co-morbidities and no concurrent cocaine use but who were recently vaccinated.)

 

[Basil the Great]

That hasn't been my experience.

Australia must be more on top of this matter than the U.S.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

I do not blame anyone who is afraid of the vaccine, for whatever reason, as long as they wear a mask whenever they are out in public. Sadly, those who are not vaccinated seem to be the ones least likely to wear masks.

Why should they wear a mask when the mask propaganda had already shifted to reveal it was always empty.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

Requiring the unvaccinated to wear a mask is an assault against basic human dignity and against the image of Christ in a person.

 

[truefiction1]

Requiring the unvaccinated to wear a mask is an assault against basic human dignity and against the image of Christ in a person.

Well, I believe that the prophet Moses had worn a mask (veil) when it had become fitting for him to do so, and he was not likely vaccinated, so it's not necessarily an assault on the image of Christ in us if we wear one with good reason. Making an assertion that the requirement to wear a mask is an assault on the image of Christ in us may go well beyond Orthodox Scriptural and Theological understanding and venture into the realm of personal rational philosophy. It has happened recently that certain priests have even alienated and lost parishioners to other parishes because of the way they behaved towards these mask-wearing sheep that they were supposed to be caring for, having insinuated that they were without faith and sinful for wearing their masks in Church.

"For everything there is a time", even for the wearing of masks.

 

[Dorothea]

Since the beginning, I've always believed masks are used for people who have symptoms that spread germs - coughing or sneezing. I see no other reason to wear them if a person doesn't have any symptoms or illness that has those types of symptoms.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

Well, I believe that the prophet Moses had worn a mask (veil) when it had become fitting for him to do so, and he was not likely vaccinated, so it's not necessarily an assault on the image of Christ in us if we wear one with good reason. Making an assertion that the requirement to wear a mask is an assault on the image of Christ in us may go well beyond Orthodox Scriptural and Theological understanding and venture into the realm of personal rational philosophy. It has happened recently that certain priests have even alienated and lost parishioners to other parishes because of the way they behaved towards these mask-wearing sheep that they were supposed to be caring for, having insinuated that they were without faith and sinful for wearing their masks in Church.

"For everything there is a time", even for the wearing of masks.

You pull me very out of context. What Moses did or didn't do is irrelevant, because he was not forced to wear a mask by arbitrary authorarianism that sought to use masks as a means to dehumanize and coerce.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

Asymptomatic transmission is not a driver of pandemics - as a rule of thumb. Okay, so maybe it was okay to do mandates for the general population at the beginning to see if the rule of thumb would play out in this pandemic... but it did play out, and asymptomatic transmission is well known and repeatedly scientifically validated to not be a driver of this pandemic.

Not that so-called health authorities care about science or demonstrate basic competence.

 

[truefiction1]

You pull me very out of context. What Moses did or didn't do is irrelevant, because he was not forced to wear a mask by arbitrary authorarianism that sought to use masks as a means to dehumanize and coerce.

Well, we are called to preach the Gospel of the kingdom and to repent, not to rebel against what authoritarians in this one are doing. So wearing a mask is only an issue if it's harming others physically, which in many cases it probably can because of the poor air atmosphere inside of a mask which one will be breathing from. But Christ suffered physically and His followers will also, and the suffering neither changes His image nor does our suffering hurt ours. Rather, it increases His image and likeness in us. Luke the sainted surgeon complied with the mask wearing requirements of the medical establishment's in which he served the Ill. He did not compromise his Faith, however, by removing his icons or riassa, and was arrested and exiled into prison for it. If a person agrees to wear a mask according to mandates from the authorities they do not compromise their Faith. It's really no great offense to be told to wear one during a pandemic either. There are far greater offenses happening in our very parishes which must be dealt with and have not been.

 

[Fr. Appletree]

Well, we are called to preach the Gospel of the kingdom and to repent, not to rebel against what authoritarians in this one are doing. So wearing a mask is only an issue if it's harming others physically, which in many cases it probably can because of the poor air atmosphere inside of a mask which one will be breathing from. But Christ suffered physically and His followers will also, and the suffering neither changes His image nor does our suffering hurt ours. Rather, it increases His image and likeness in us. Luke the sainted surgeon complied with the mask wearing requirements of the medical establishment's in which he served the Ill. He did not compromise his Faith, however, by removing his icons or riassa, and was arrested and exiled into prison for it. If a person agrees to wear a mask according to mandates from the authorities they do not compromise their Faith. It's really no great offense to be told to wear one during a pandemic either. There are far greater offenses happening in our very parishes which must be dealt with and have not been.

It is a compromise of the faith to require worshippers to wear masks to partake.

 

[truefiction1]

It is a compromise of the faith to require worshippers to wear masks to partake.

It's a compromise of the True Faith to unreasonably discontinue worshipping in the precise ways that we are commanded to by God. Whether we do so with or without a mask isn't important just so long as we do it with our proper "Wedding garment". The Holy Fathers all knew about that garment and have instructed us in this matter. Their instructions pertain to spiritual, not physical articles which are worn. St. Paul speaks to various physical customs of men and women in prayer which were observed in his day, but he made sure to state as clearly as possible that wherever they breed dissension or division in the Church, then we have no such customs. To wear a mask or to not wear a mask is of little significance to us.

If our worship is too strongly centered on customs we have already been defeated from within by the evil spirit of schism. It has not been our custom in Liturgy to wear masks. Now we are sometimes required to wear them at Liturgical services. It's a real pain and it's hard to wear them many times, but it's irrelevant with regards to worshipping in spirit and in truth.

 

[Dorothea]

I've heard two accounts from pious women that was shared on an Orthodox channel. One of the elderly pious women had a visitation from the Theotokos last year. The Panagia told her, "The masks won't save you."

Also, last year, another pious woman said, when she was in church, she saw the enemy/evil one putting masks on parishioners, and Christ was there. The evil one said, "Ha ha, they're mine now." Christ responded with, "I don't know who they are." Oy.

Some folks tend not to believe the witnessing of such things from pious Orthodox, but I tend to.

But I think true fiction is right in saying that repentance is what is important over masks. It's always been about repentance. It transcends everything else.

 

[rusmeister]

The most a hierarch can do is ASK us to wear a mask because of their personal beliefs about the authority of modern scientists and fear of secular authorities who use their claims to try to rule us. They have more authority to tell a woman to wear a sufficiently long skirt, and that’s actually not much, as most of us understand that modesty in dress is a good thing to be desired, but not a thing to forbid entrance into a church. It is our prerogative to obey or not, and not a thing we are bound to obey. And if we believe the mandate to be more harmful than helpful, it is our prerogative to refuse to comply. I can imagine situations where a mask might really be a good idea, as in an overcrowded church where “social distancing” (what a horrible term!) is impossible. And certainly a 70-yr old overweight asthmatic should be allowed to wear one if he fears the virus. But it is definitely a case of allowing, not mandating, such things.

 

[prodromos]

Several of the fully vaccinated Texas Democrats who left the state illegally have now tested positive for Covid19. In Indonesia, where 95% of health workers are fully vaccinated, large numbers of doctors are dying from Covid19. Their health system is on the brink of collapse.

 

[truefiction1]

I've heard two accounts from pious women that was shared on an Orthodox channel. One of the elderly pious women had a visitation from the Theotokos last year. The Panagia told her, "The masks won't save you."

Also, last year, another pious woman said, when she was in church, she saw the enemy/evil one putting masks on parishioners, and Christ was there. The evil one said, "Ha ha, they're mine now." Christ responded with, "I don't know who they are." Oy.

Some folks tend not to believe the witnessing of such things from pious Orthodox, but I tend to.

But I think true fiction is right in saying that repentance is what is important over masks. It's always been about repentance. It transcends everything else.

Unfortunately, not all such alleged visitations or visions are from God. Some are produced through/by spiritual prelest. I don't for one second believe that wearing masks is going to save any of us, because Holy Scripture Announced that God alone is our Savior. It's good to be reminded of this by the saints and especially by the Most Holy Theotokos, but this truth is something we already know. And Christ God knows those who are of a humble and broken heart, regardless of facecoverings or a lack thereof, and the rest He does not know, because they aren't like Him. How can the Light know darkness?

 

[Dorothea]

As I said, truefiction, people are free to believe pious people's encounters with the saints or not. I'm all about free will.

 

[truefiction1]

As I said, truefiction, people are free to believe pious people's encounters with the saints or not. I'm all about free will.

Yes, Dorothea, people are free and will believe as they're inclined to believe. No doubt.

 

[JSRG]

In Indonesia, where 95% of health workers are fully vaccinated, large numbers of doctors are dying from Covid19. Their health system is on the brink of collapse.

Looking into it, it seems the two big issues Indonesia has are:
1) The vaccine that was overwhelmingly used in Indonesia is the Chinese-made "Sinovac" vaccine (this is not available in most English-speaking countries, so if someone is reading this post they may not have even heard of it). Sinovac apparently has a lower effectiveness than other vaccines, especially when it comes to the variants that are becoming dominant.
2) While the doctors have a high vaccination rate, the rest of the country (who, of course, still come in contact with doctors) has a very low one, only slightly above 5%.

 

[Antoni]

Survey of Practicing Physicians Shows Support for Mass Injections 'Far From Unanimous': Medical Association

from the article:

“It is wrong to call a person who declines a shot an ‘anti-vaxxer,’” AAPS Executive Director Jane Orient said in a statement. “Virtually no physicians are ‘anti-antibiotics’ or ‘anti-surgery,’ whereas all are opposed to treatments that they think are unnecessary, more likely to cause harm than to benefit an individual patient, or inadequately tested.”

The survey also showed that 58 percent of the practicing physicians who responded were aware of patients suffering a “significant adverse reaction” after receiving a COVID vaccine.

Orient said most unvaccinated physicians had made their decision based on their assessment that the risk of taking the shots exceeds the risk of the disease, with many responding that they had already contracted COVID-19.

Other reasons for declining the shots included unknown long-term side effects, use of fetal cell lines for vaccine testing, the experimental nature of the injections, other effective early treatments, and reports of deaths and”…

 

[tapi]

Survey of Practicing Physicians Shows Support for Mass Injections 'Far From Unanimous': Medical Association

from the article:

“It is wrong to call a person who declines a shot an ‘anti-vaxxer,’” AAPS Executive Director Jane Orient said in a statement. “Virtually no physicians are ‘anti-antibiotics’ or ‘anti-surgery,’ whereas all are opposed to treatments that they think are unnecessary, more likely to cause harm than to benefit an individual patient, or inadequately tested.”

The survey also showed that 58 percent of the practicing physicians who responded were aware of patients suffering a “significant adverse reaction” after receiving a COVID vaccine.

Orient said most unvaccinated physicians had made their decision based on their assessment that the risk of taking the shots exceeds the risk of the disease, with many responding that they had already contracted COVID-19.

Other reasons for declining the shots included unknown long-term side effects, use of fetal cell lines for vaccine testing, the experimental nature of the injections, other effective early treatments, and reports of deaths and”…

Your sources keep getting more ridiculous each passing day.

"The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a conservative non-profit association that promotes medical disinformation, such as HIV/AIDS denialism, the abortion-breast cancer hypothesis, vaccine and autism connections, and homosexuality reducing life expectancy. The association was founded in 1943 to oppose a government attempt to nationalize health care. The group has included notable members, including American Republican politicians Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Tom Price."

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons - Wikipedia

In other words, it's an insignificant, small bunch of crazed out, quacky wackos, who represent perhaps a 0,1 % of physicians in the States. Furthermore, the result is based on an anonymous internet poll that anyone, even a non-physician could fill out (no license verification). I hope I need not to explicate on why such a poll is not a credible evaluation... and for a healthcare professional to spread such fake findings is, well, lying. Straight up, cold lying. Or extreme incompetence in gauging the veracity of the source. I would expect more from an Orthodox physician.

Funnily enough, the article itself reveals the real situation on the medical field: “This [their "poll"] contrasts with the claim by the American Medical Association that 96 percent of practicing physicians are fully vaccinated.”