anyone else not like Sunday worship?

The Liturgist

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The Eastern Orthodox Church would disagree that Sunday worship was invented by the Roman Catholic Church. Worship on Sunday goes back to the beginning.

We're not obeying a Catholic doctrine. We're obeying the Lord, who told us through Scripture that we shouldn't forsake assembling together, that only those weak in faith are worried about special holy days, and to let no one judge us in regard to a sabbath.

Absolutely. And no one had to tell the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian Church of the East to worship on Sunday. Indeed, the Armenian Orthodox Church, which is the oldest national church in the world, is also unique in that they only have the Eucharist on Sunday or certain major feast days, like Epiphany-Christmas (following in the ancient custom, they celebrate both at the same time). The Armemian laity dont really attend the Divine Office on other days; that is something mainly reserved for Armenian monks.
 
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To me it is a question of what the Word of God actually says - and so far no one has a text saying it is "any one day in seven that you wish to pick".

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith section 22 does not say that.

The Word of God is Jesus Christ. The Gospel According to Mark says He rose on the First day, and rested in the tomb on the Seventh. Therefore, Saturday is the day of holy rest and Sunday the day of celebration of his victory over death. It’s that simple.

During Lent the Eastern Orthodox have on every Saturday, starting on the Saturday before Septuagesima, Soul Saturdays, in which the deceased loved ones of the congregation are remembered and prayed for.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I thought for sure this was going to be about bad preaching and worse singing, lol. That might make me not like Sunday worship.

Did Baptists ever worship on Saturday? Maybe I misunderstood. Besides, I think Christians were observing the Lord's Day as worship before there was an actual Pope, but I'm up for correction on that.

Yes your absolutely correct, there was no pope before 1054AD. Sunday worship goes all the way back to the apostles and was so widely accepted by Christianity that it never even made it into an ecumenical council because no one ever questioned the idea. It was certainly not decided by Rome.
 
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Albion

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A slight disagreement. IMO, we could date the RCC with the bishop of Rome beginning to make his claims to universal jurisdiction, citing various reasons for the claims, and making some headway with that. We "could," that is. I'm not saying it's certain.

By the time of the Great Schism, the Roman Church was certainly well-established structurally, and the alleged jurisdiction of the Pope was recognized in the West if not agreed to by the Eastern Churches.
 
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BNR32FAN

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It's less about the Sabbath and more about.. just not wanting to be under a Catholic doctrine. I've heard that it was Emperor Constantine that decreed in 321 that Sunday was the day of rest (himself formerly being a Pagan that practiced sunday worship of Pagan gods), and later the Catholic Church formalized it as their day of worship.

So to me, it's.. a pagan practice that has been adopted by the Catholic Church and now we're still practicing it despite not being Catholic.

From the Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine


Like.. we're gonna seaprate from popery, and then ... still follow doctrines that were done by papal decree?

No, first of all Sunday worship was not discussed at the council of Nicaea. It was which Sunday the Church would celebrate Easter that was discussed because evidently not everyone was on the same page as to exactly which Sunday it was. If my memory serves correct it was Alexandria that was celebrating Easter on the wrong Sunday. Second, Constantine didn’t take any part at all in any decisions made at Nicaea, he attended but did not interfere with the proceedings of the council at all. Sunday worship was never discussed in the ecumenical councils because it was never questioned because it came directly from the apostles.
 
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BNR32FAN

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A slight disagreement. IMO, we could date the RCC with the bishop of Rome beginning to make his claims to universal jurisdiction, citing various reasons for the claims, and making some headway with that. We "could," that is. I'm not saying it's certain.

By the time of the Great Schism, the Roman Church was certainly well-established structurally, and the alleged jurisdiction of the Pope was recognized in the West if not agreed to by the Eastern Churches.

Well it’s hard to say honestly because as far as the Catholic Church was concerned, not the Roman Catholic Church, but the actual Catholic Church, the bishop of Rome’s claims were not substantiated and not backed by ecumenical council. The way I see it one could say that the bishop of Rome was in power in Rome before 1054 but they weren’t officially separated from the Catholic Church so they were still technically under the authority of the ecumenical council not “the pope”. But I get what your saying and it just depends on how a person wants to view the situation.
 
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RBPerry

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To me it is a question of what the Word of God actually says - and so far no one has a text saying it is "any one day in seven that you wish to pick".

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith section 22 does not say that.

Bob, this subject has been beaten to death, I know all your arguments, you know mine and we don't agree. I have never implied that Saturday isn't the original sabbath. I was in a SDA theology class at Loma Linda and asked why God waited 1500 years to deal with the Saturday sabbath issue. I got several dumb looks, and then the progressive revelation comment came up again. I was reprimanded for asking the question. The great awakening has done more harm to Christianity than all the atheist in the world, and your Mrs. White was right in the middle of it.
Do you still believe that those who keep Sunday as a day of worship are sinning?
 
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BobRyan

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Bob, this subject has been beaten to death, I know all your arguments,

Then it's working... I would not ask for anything more.

BTW - I did not start this thread... but I am still partial to the irrefutable details I keep pointing out regarding the subject.

we don't agree.

No doubt. I post for the sake of readers.

I have never implied that Saturday isn't the original sabbath. I was in a SDA theology class at Loma Linda and asked why God waited 1500 years to deal with the Saturday sabbath issue. I got several dumb looks, and then the progressive revelation comment came up again.

Eastern Orthodox kept Sabbath until at least the middle of the 4th century - I assume they gave you that reference from Bacchiocchi's book.

Ellen White taught that the Waldenses were also Sabbath keeping far beyond
Were Waldensians Sabbath-keepers? | Adventist World

Historic evidence supports that

One of the primary sources of evidence of Waldensian Sabbathkeeping during the first half of the thirteenth century comes from a collection of five books written against the Cathars and Waldensians about 1241-1244 by Dominican inquisitor Father Moneta of Cremona in northern Italy.

Moneta passionately defended himself against criticism from Waldensians and Cathars that Catholics were transgressors of the Sabbath commandment. In the chapter De Sabbato, et De Die Dominico he discussed the significance of the seventh-day Sabbath of Exodus 20:8, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy,” and contrasted it with the value of the Lord’s day, his term for the first day of the week.5

Anti-Sabbath Arguments Against Waldensians

Moneta claimed that the Sabbath was for the Jews, pointing out that it was a memorial of Creation and of their liberation from Egypt. The Jewish Sabbath, he said, was “a sign and figure of the spiritual Sabbath of the Christian people. . . . It must be understood, however, that as the Jews observed the Sabbath, so also, we observe the Lord’s day.” He added, “this day we observe as an ordinance of the Church, and it is in reverence to Christ who was born on that day, who rose on that day, who sent the Holy Spirit on that day.”

Moneta continued his dispute by referring to Galatians 4:10, 11, stating, “It is sin to observe days.” He continued by pointing out that circumcision “will be of no benefit to you” (Gal. 5:2, 3, NASB),6 and neither would Sabbathkeeping. Moneta concluded by quoting Colossians 2:16, commenting that “days related to Jewish festivals are not observed, on the contrary, the days instituted by the Church, and that is it.”7

Moneta’s treatise clearly shows that a sizable group of Waldensians and Cathars in northern Italy and southern France during the thirteenth century were worshipping on a day other than Sunday, namely, the seventh-day Sabbath.
 
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BobRyan

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Sunday worship goes all the way back to the apostles .

On the contrary -

1. No NT text says that.
2. Christians from Jerusalem were known as Sabbath keeping even in the second century.
3. Fourth century references show that Eastern Orthodox regions were still keeping Sabbath.
4. Thirteenth century historic documents show that the Cathars and Waldenses were still keeping Sabbath.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The Jewish Sabbath was not always on Saturday, either. If you want to go back to the original Sabbath, then you need to learn something about lunar calendars. Otherwise, you're forsaking the body of Christ for a body of unbelieving Jews. Whether the Catholic, or some other church, instigated Sunday worship, it was still started by the church. The Jews currently worship on a day not ordained by God in the beginning.
Actually, this is incorrect. The Sabbath has always been on the seventh day. It has always been a 7 day weekly cycle that changes not with any calendar. Sunday is the first day of the week and Saturday is the seventh.
 
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Yeah, it's less about wanting to go to any specific day of worship since I mean eventually that'll be every day anyway. More about wanting to separate from leftover clinging doctrines from the RCC. Just over the course of over 1000 years they picked up a lot of paganism along the way and I'd like to be free of that. Putting Christian names over Pagan practices or images does not work for me.
I would would pray to God and ask for the holy Spirit to lead you to His true church.

There are several churches including Baptist who worship God on the true Lords day, His holy seventh day Sabbath.
 
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BobRyan

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Not to be a Judaizer, but I do wish that Baptists at least would go back to Saturday worship, just because Sunday was something instigated by the Roman Catholic Church, and it's kinda like.. even though we're not Catholic, we're obeying a Catholic doctrine that they invented themselves. I don't like the idea of obeying the Pope at all.

In that case you may find this official commentary on the Baltimore Catholic Catechism after Vatican II - to be of interest

And we have this statement from Leo Tres in "The Faith Explained" (which also has the Imprimatur)

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholics who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.
 
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BNR32FAN

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On the contrary -

1. No NT text says that.
2. Christians from Jerusalem were known as Sabbath keeping even in the second century.
3. Fourth century references show that Eastern Orthodox regions were still keeping Sabbath.
4. Thirteenth century historic documents show that the Cathars and Waldenses were still keeping Sabbath.

I never said anything to the contrary. They kept both the Sabbath and The Lord’s Day.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
On the contrary -

1. No NT text says that (they kept Sunday)
2. Christians from Jerusalem were known as Sabbath keeping even in the second century.
3. Fourth century references show that Eastern Orthodox regions were still keeping Sabbath.
4. Thirteenth century historic documents show that the Cathars and Waldenses were still keeping Sabbath.

I never said anything to the contrary. They kept both the Sabbath and The Lord’s Day.

So then .. #1 in that list comes to mind.
 
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Albion

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This thread is getting rather long, but after all is said and done, the "bottom line" may simply be that the great majority of Christians worship on Sunday because 1) the Bible teaches us that the early Christians worshipped on the first day of the week in recognition that it is the day on which the Lord rose from the grave, and 2) they see no reason to depart from the near-universal practice of the church since ancient times.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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This thread is getting rather long, but after all is said and done, the "bottom line" may simply be that the great majority of Christians worship on Sunday because 1) the Bible teaches us that the early Christians worshipped on the first day of the week in recognition that it is the day on which the Lord rose from the grave, and 2) they see no reason to depart from the near-universal practice of the church since ancient times.
Interesting there is no scripture that corresponds with your claim. God only made one holy day. He blessed and sanctified only one day and asked us to remember and keep holy only one day and that is the seventh day. Exodus 20: 8-11. The real “Lords day” is God’s seventh day Sabbath which was made for all of us Mark 2:27
 
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BobRyan

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Yeah, this is kind of the crux of my dislike for Sunday worship.

Seventh-day Adventists used to be "Adventists" until they met Seventh-day Baptists and started looking into what the Bible had to say about this topic.
 
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Jamdoc

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Seventh-day Adventists used to be "Adventists" until they met Seventh-day Baptists and started looking into what the Bible had to say about this topic.

Well to be frank, I disagree with a lot of SDA doctrines, so I wouldn't be a SDA myself. I'd be interested in finding a Seventh Day Baptist Church but I don't know of any in my location.

in fact looking online, the closest one to me is about an 8 hour drive lol.
 
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RBPerry

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Yeah, this is kind of the crux of my dislike for Sunday worship.
Well then join the Adventist, then you can give up eating meat, drinking any alcohol, no makeup for your wife, and you'll fit right in. The Adventist are wonderful people that do love God. I gave up because I can't stand veggie burgers.
 
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