I give up: I'd rather go backwards, than forwards (in Evolution)

Warden_of_the_Storm

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The whole thing is that if I become familiar with certain selection pressures, I become familiar with selection pressures like them - how can I believe that without hoping that "Evolution" will at least in part be something "tangible"?

It's not possible.

Say I learn to swim in shallow water, I learn to see water at a distance, I can walk at length to go from the creek to the lake - these things all hinge on adapting to water in its different expressions - if I had to adapt swimming in shallow water and seeing water at a distance and walking at length from the creek to the lake all at the same time, I would never get there: water at a distance would be confused with shallow water, shallow water would be confused with water at a distance -- the whole structure would break down.

Alternatively, I can believe there are many dimensions to aspects of my selection pressures - such that I cohere a progressive response to them. Jesus didn't go straight to the cross, He had to get help - at some point we are all going to need to get help from God, with our adaptations, there are just too many selection pressures working against us, all the time, to try and manually develop a response that agrees with where those selection pressures are going to have taken us.

I don't want to confuse you with philosophy, but there is something to be said for the value philosophy places on wisdom, despite what the current trend of "thinking" actually is - it is a lesson "Evolution" is going to have to learn at some point, very soon (I would argue) - from there you can make all the moral judgments it takes to keep Evolution viable. And that is where I think your remark that "Evolution" is not tangible, fails - if Evolution is not tangible, neither is it "viable".

Science works by subjugating elements of its ornamentation to tests of validity - I have done this, with the concept of the throwback, which opens a window to familiarity and from familiarity, I have confirmed that the speed of what is attempted, is governed by the enormity of what it is believed can be responded to, all within the grounds flourishing more or less successfully -- what I need from you is an understanding, that this is not all for nothing, God gives "Evolutional" strength to some and "Creative" strength to others and as stewards of the difference, we must work out what is most Attractive - we will be judged by how well we do this, for the good of what God presumes to rule over, in this way. I simply cannot and will not forsake that it is more God's doing than mine, for that which is coming and not yet merely manifest for self-satisfying reasons.

It is not much of a leap, from understanding that familiarity breeds appreciation, to having the compassion to nourish that familiarity, until it is strong (and hence, most survivable).

Evolution has nothing to do with philosophy, it's purely a biological process in reaction to environmental pressures on a population of animals. That's it.
 
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Gottservant

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Evolution has nothing to do with philosophy, it's purely a biological process in reaction to environmental pressures on a population of animals. That's it.

The imagination requires an object.

That's all I'm saying.

I could say more, but if you can't understand that (that the imagination requires an object), there is not a lot I can say.

It won't be the end of the world, if I can't use Evolution (the way people use Philosophy, for example), but you may suffer in the long run, thinking it can save you (in its current form) most needfully from a dying expectation (of things that can be "survived", in principle).
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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The imagination requires an object.

That's all I'm saying.

I could say more, but if you can't understand that (that the imagination requires an object), there is not a lot I can say.

It won't be the end of the world, if I can't use Evolution (the way people use Philosophy, for example), but you may suffer in the long run, thinking it can save you (in its current form) most needfully from a dying expectation (of things that can be "survived", in principle).

But evolution isn't used like philosophy. Evolution is scientific fact of biology and is used in medicine, conservation, engineering, all sorts of scientific disciplines.

Your comment about 'the imagination requires an object' is ridiculous and nonsensical in talking about evolution and again shows that you haven't learny anything about evolution and I honestly think that you don't want to.
 
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Gottservant

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But evolution isn't used like philosophy. Evolution is scientific fact of biology and is used in medicine, conservation, engineering, all sorts of scientific disciplines.

Your comment about 'the imagination requires an object' is ridiculous and nonsensical in talking about evolution and again shows that you haven't learny anything about evolution and I honestly think that you don't want to.

How can you not understand, that I am trying to use my "imagination"?

You have no foundation and no discernment, it seems.

Philosophy makes a distinction and tries to live by it, but according to your "Evolution" you can't learn that?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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How can you not understand, that I am trying to use my "imagination"?

You have no foundation and no discernment, it seems.

Philosophy makes a distinction and tries to live by it, but according to your "Evolution" you can't learn that?

Evolution is simply a chance in an animal due to selection pressures in its environment. How are you not getting this?

It isn't a philosophy, it isn't a religion, it isn't imagination, it is simple and factual science.
 
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Gottservant

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Evolution is simply a chance in an animal due to selection pressures in its environment. How are you not getting this?

It isn't a philosophy, it isn't a religion, it isn't imagination, it is simple and factual science.

What do you think we develop the temporal lobes for, if not for imagination? We know this?

You're trying to say "Nah, believe in Evolution, for no reason"? Really?

Seriously don't waste my time, if you can't even grasp that familiarity with a selection pressure increases odds of survival - you aren't taking function seriously at all.

(It's making me kind of angry, actually, maybe not at you, but definitely the Devil that is putting you up to this change for "no reason" nonsense).
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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What do you think we develop the temporal lobes for, if not for imagination? We know this?

You're trying to say "Nah, believe in Evolution, for no reason"? Really?

Seriously don't waste my time, if you can't even grasp that familiarity with a selection pressure increases odds of survival - you aren't taking function seriously at all.

(It's making me kind of angry, actually, maybe not at you, but definitely the Devil that is putting you up to this change for "no reason" nonsense).

If you don't want to learn about evolution, then why do you keep asking questions about evolution?

You can't even explain what familiarity with a selection pressure is.

Also, no, don't try and blame this on the devil or anyone or anything. I am annoyed because you make no attempt at explaining anything you say and all you do is talk nonsense and ask nonsense questions about a topic that is very easy to learn.
 
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Gottservant

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Let me ask you something, that I used my imagination to discern.

Evaluate the following said:
I can use English, to end this sentence in another language, da?

Go slow if you need to: I can use English, to end this sentence... in "another" language..., da?

It's sleight of hand! The English and the foreign language are distinct - no amount of speaking German at the end, will change the fact that the sentence was intended to be English?

Yet that is precisely what you do suggesting that slime will become mime.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Familiarity is epigenetic information about an adaptation, that makes it more viable.

As I said, it's an adaptation that has already been bred into a gene via mutation.
So then there is no need for an animal to go backwards since the pressure has already been selected for in the genome and the animal population has already evolved to adapt to that pressure, since it cannot re-adapt in response to that pressure.
 
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Gottservant

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As I said, it's an adaptation that has already been bred into a gene via mutation.
So then there is no need for an animal to go backwards since the pressure has already been selected for in the genome and the animal population has already evolved to adapt to that pressure, since it cannot re-adapt in response to that pressure.

That's where you are confused: you don't need mutation to become familiar with a selection pressure, design can vary the blueprints on its own - and by process of elimination of Evolution, the right set of responses will be arrived at.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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That's where you are confused: you don't need mutation to become familiar with a selection pressure, design can vary the blueprints on its own - and by process of elimination of Evolution, the right set of responses will be arrived at.

In evolutionary science, you do need a mutation to become familiar with a selection pressure since that's what an adaptation is.
You can't show a blueprint or design for evolution, and also process of elimination is natural selection, a part of evolutionary theory, in its simplest form.

Buddy, you need to work on your condescension, your attitude and your own education.
 
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VirOptimus

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In evolutionary science, you do need a mutation to become familiar with a selection pressure since that's what an adaptation is.
You can't show a blueprint or design for evolution, and also process of elimination is natural selection, a part of evolutionary theory, in its simplest form.

Buddy, you need to work on your condescension, your attitude and your own education.
He has, by his own admission, schizophrenia.
 
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Gottservant

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If you don't keep the epigenetics, there is nothing to pass on (to the next generation).

If I had not told you how important genetic ordinance was, you would have no sin, but now you have both rejected my imagination and the importance of giving it an object, therefore your sin remains.

If I become familiar with the familiar, have I not adapted it?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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If you don't keep the epigenetics, there is nothing to pass on (to the next generation).

If I had not told you how important genetic ordinance was, you would have no sin, but now you have both rejected my imagination and the importance of giving it an object, therefore your sin remains.

If I become familiar with the familiar, have I not adapted it?

Genetics has nothing to do with sin. You need to stop trying to conflate evolution and religion. You really need to stop.

And you are just saying what I am saying: if you become 'familiar', if you adapt to deal with a selection pressure, then you have evolved to deal with that selection pressure so it stops becoming a selection pressure.
 
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Gottservant

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He has, by his own admission, schizophrenia.

Your mistake is to think that it is the schizophrenia making me hard to understand (not that certain people don't understand, just that equally some do not), when it is in fact "dysintellexia" (inability to function intelligently).

If I have said something impressive, feel free to repeat it - just don't come to me saying "I wish God had made you more intelligent" when its too much of a strain to interpret what I have said slowly.

I mean, my schizophrenia is fundamentally different to what it was even half a decade ago, but unfortunately there has not been an equal improvement in my dysintellexia as of yet.

subtext said:
Don't try to communicate with Gottservant, unless you are already sure in your mind of at least something (that is, of value)
 
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Kylie

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Yes but there is a temporal connection between the "what was" to the "what will be".

The temporal lobes evolved to deal with just such a relationship.

Your argument that Evolution develops without any contingency on the ready, is just imagination.

How does the imagination evolve, without something to focus the imagination on? Do you see what I am saying?

No, I don't see what you are saying. We did not evolve temporal lobes to facilitate evolution.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Your argument that Evolution develops without any contingency on the ready, is just imagination.

This might be the hardest part of evolution to comprehend, but evolution has no plan, no contingency. It has no mind so it cannot plan. What looks like contingency may just be something that was useful in the past, hasn't been discarded, and ends up being useful in the future.
 
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