Full Preterist Safe House

[robycop3]

I am hoping that one of the "full preterists" will explain how everyone has already received their resurrection bodies, since they believe that all prophecy has been fulfilled.

Please don't hold yer breath waiting. You might become quite cyanotic !

 

[FreeGrace2]

Please don't hold yer breath waiting. You might become quite cyanotic !

I always breathe when I'm hoping for these kinds of things!

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!

 

[robycop3]

I always breathe when I'm hoping for these kinds of things!

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!

Same 2 U ! !

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Here is your original response:
Ed Parenteau said: ↑
I politely asked you for "your" view of the resurrection body, and instead you chose to insult me. Why?

This was my response to that:
"OK, let's unpack this. First this is what I said:
" Read 1 Cor 15, all of it. v.52 is interesting.

Then, read 1 Thess 4, all of it.

Then get back to me."

You asked my view and I gave it to you. In the form of what the Bible says, which is my view. That's not an insult.

Then I asked you to get back to me. I think most people would understand that as simply agreeing with me or if not, explaining WHY not?

So, do you agree with the verses or disagree with them?

Simple question. No insults."

The verse you quoted wasn't even in the discussion.

Of course I agree with the verses, and not just those verses, but the whole bible. But I still don't know if I agree with you on their interpretation.
And how is verse 15:35 not part of " Read 1 Cor 15, all of it."?
Besides you didn't even ask a question? You said v.52 is interesting--OK, I agree it's interesting
Here's a perfectly fine answer by Robocop3 to my question. "We will be resurrected into new bodies. I don't know what their appearance & nature will be, but they'll be a lot better than our present ones."
So, am I to assume that's what you believe also?
What I don't believe is that the physical body we're in will be resurrected.

 

[robycop3]

Of course I agree with the verses, and not just those verses, but the whole bible. But I still don't know if I agree with you on their interpretation.
And how is verse 15:35 not part of " Read 1 Cor 15, all of it."?
Besides you didn't even ask a question? You said v.52 is interesting--OK, I agree it's interesting
Here's a perfectly fine answer by Robocop3 to my question. "We will be resurrected into new bodies. I don't know what their appearance & nature will be, but they'll be a lot better than our present ones."
So, am I to assume that's what you believe also?
What I don't believe is that the physical body we're in will be resurrected.

I can't say one way or the other for sure, but it seems unlikely we'll be in our old bodies, as many such bodies have been reduced to part of the atmosphere & scattered to the 4 winds, & BECOME PART OF OTHER PEOPLES' BODIES. But, again, I can't say for sure, as GOD CAN DO ANYTHING. What I AM sure of is that He will do as He said.

 

[mlepfitjw]

I am hoping that one of the "full preterists" will explain how everyone has already received their resurrection bodies, since they believe that all prophecy has been fulfilled.

All people will receive a resurrected body after this life. Jesus Christ has paid for the price of sin for all of the world. There will be a resurrection to life (everlasting), and resurrection of condemnation (everlasting?).

One represents resurrection unto the Kingdom of God through Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ by being saved with having belief on God.

The second represents resurrection unto the outside of the Kingdom of God, because of no faith, and no desires of being with God because of humans free will choice to do so.

All people will be resurrected, and given a body that is pleasing to God. God is fair in all of his assessments as a judge and gives the person from the heart what it is they desire after this life, either to be with him or not be with him.

References : 1 Corinthians 15:38, John 5:29, Revelation 22:14-15, 1 Timothy 2:5-6, 1 Samuel 16:7, 1 John 2:2

Also, I am not a full preterist, just someone who has seen scripture for what it seems to say, though don't believe me, decide for yourself.

 

[parousia70]

Ah, there's the rub. There isn't a sensible answer.

Resurrection of the dead is a very sensible, scriptural doctrine from the preterist view.

#1) The dead are all those who finished their lives on planet earth. They are a category of people -- the dead.

#2) In Paul's time, and going all the way back to Adam, the dead went to Hades/Sheol at their physical deaths. This place was NOT Heaven and it was NOT the lake of fire (commonly known as "hell" in today's parlance). Those places weren't prepared yet.

#3) The bible then teaches WHEN Hades/Sheol was to be destroyed (Rev 20:12-15; 1 Cor 15:55-55), giving up the dead.

Preterists maintain that 1 Cor 15:55-56 clearly lists that Hades/Sheol was destoyed when the Age of the Law of Moses came to its end:

1 Corinthians 15:54-56
then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O HADES is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW

That is the victory slogan when the resurrection of the dead happens. All agree on that.

We are not still waiting for Hades to be destroyed. We are not still waiting for the Law of Moses to reach its end. We are not still waiting for the dead to be raised out of Hades and taken into their eternal inheritance in Heaven or eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire ("hell" in common parlance). All the dead are now either in Heaven's eternal bliss or in hell. There is no Hadean realm anymore. Hades was destroyed when the dead were raised out of it (1 Cor 15:55-56; Rev 20:12-15).

The Law Age was forever ended at the destruction of the Temple. That age had run its appointed course of time (Gal 3:19,24-25; Gal 4:4-5). We know that the Old Covenant was still hanging on to God's people as of Heb 8:13 (see also 2 Cor 3:6-12; Gal 4:24-25; Gal 4:8-12; Col 2:16-22, Acts 21:20-26, etc), but that Old Covenant was about to vanish (Heb 8:13; Heb 10:9) -- it did fully vanish at AD 70 when Christ's prophecies about the Temple came to pass.

Look very closely at the saying that "death is swallowed up in victory." Look how Paul ties it to the end of the Age of the Mosaic Law and NOT the end of the New Covenant Age (which had barely even begun yet). Paul writes:

'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW -- 1 Cor 15:55-56

It was The Law of Moses that was preventing the saints from entering Heaven due to it's condemnation of the saints. Paul sees the victory over death to be tied to the removal of the Law Age, which was centered in the Temple system instituted by God and not destroyed until AD 70. Christ had very much to say about the destruction of the Temple.

Paul was living in the last days of the Old Testament Age when Resurrection was about to happen (Romans 13:11; Acts 24:15), -- it was even to occur in their lifetimes as Paul fully expected and taught (1 Thess 4:15 -- "WE who are alive and remain..."). Acts 24:15 says:

Acts 24:15
having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that THERE IS ABOUT TO BE a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous (Young's LITERAL translation)

Indeed, Jesus was resurrected out of Hades at AD 30 and Paul was expecting the rest of the O.T. saints to exit Hades and join Christ in Heaven's bliss very, very, soon. They hadn't yet, but Paul promised that the Hebrews 11 O.T. saints were destined to receive their promise in Paul's generation (Hebrews 11:39-40).

Does Paul tie Resurrection (which he taught was ABOUT TO happen in their lifetimes -- Acts 24:15; Romans 13:11, 1 Thess 4:15) to the end of the New Covenant Age? Absolutely not. Does Paul tie the institution of Resurrection to the end of the Old Testament Age? The answer is ABSOLUTELY YES. Paul ties the institution of Resurrection to the removal of THE OLD COVENANT LAW OF MOSES. Paul teaches that the sting and victory of death (which futurists teach have not yet been eradicated) exists due to SIN POWERED BY THE LAW OF MOSES! (1 Cor 15:56). Look at it carefully one last time:

1 Corinthians 15:54-56
and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?'[56] And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW.

When the Temple was destroyed at the last trump at AD 70 the dead O.T. saints were instantly taken to Heaven to be with Christ in their eternal inheritance. They are there now and we, the living, are caught up to be with them instantly and exactly as 2 Cor 5:1-2 states:

2 Corinthians 5:1-2
For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. For most assuredly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven

 

[FredVB]

I can't say one way or the other for sure, but it seems unlikely we'll be in our old bodies, as many such bodies have been reduced to part of the atmosphere & scattered to the 4 winds, & BECOME PART OF OTHER PEOPLES' BODIES. But, again, I can't say for sure, as GOD CAN DO ANYTHING. What I AM sure of is that He will do as He said.

God will have the bodies of those who died be resurrected, they would be restored. For believers, who are in Christ, their bodies are restored to what they should have been in God's perfect will, just as those believers who have not died would be changed in an instant, having on incorruptibility, being then as they were to be in God's perfect will. It will be in the time of the earlier resurrection. Those who died were generally buried, as a sign of the hope of their bodily resurrection. It does not matter for that what actually happens to the dead bodies, God will still bring back the restoration of the bodies. Those unrepentant and consequently not with the faith and being in Christ, will have their bodies restored in the final resurrection, those will be like they were when they were going to die. But the only death they will still have is going to the eternal judgment for them, referred to as the second death. They will be miserable forever after that, having rejected God's way and not repenting and coming to Christ, being left with their sins, which God needed to stop. The death, called still their destruction, is not annihilation, from what the Bible is showing.

Resurrection of the dead is a very sensible, scriptural doctrine from the preterist view.

Preterists maintain that 1 Cor 15:55-56 clearly lists that Hades/Sheol was destoyed when the Age of the Law of Moses came to its end:

1 Corinthians 15:54-56
then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O HADES is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW

We are not still waiting for the dead to be raised out of Hades and taken into their eternal inheritance in Heaven or eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire ("hell" in common parlance). All the dead are now either in Heaven's eternal bliss or in hell. There is no Hadean realm anymore. Hades was destroyed when the dead were raised out of it (1 Cor 15:55-56; Rev 20:12-15).

That was addressed for believers, for whom death lost its sting, because believers can have the certain hope, with Jesus, for the resurrection, being restored to come to God, in God's perfect will, for their happiness where God will have them forever. No unbelievers have anything lost of the sting of death, generally not having that hope, unless they are deceived with what they believe, without the repentance with coming to Christ.

Hades is depicted as being thrown into the lake of fire at the time of the final judgment before the throne of God, at which those judged will go to their lasting misery that is the appropriate consequence of what things they did of their will in their lives, from then on. Those things of that time have not occurred yet, but still will.

 

[parousia70]

God will have the bodies of those who died be resurrected, they would be restored. For believers, who are in Christ, their bodies are restored to what they should have been in God's perfect will, just as those believers who have not died would be changed in an instant, having on incorruptibility, being then as they were to be in God's perfect will. It will be in the time of the earlier resurrection. Those who died were generally buried, as a sign of the hope of their bodily resurrection. It does not matter for that what actually happens to the dead bodies, God will still bring back the restoration of the bodies. Those unrepentant and consequently not with the faith and being in Christ, will have their bodies restored in the final resurrection, those will be like they were when they were going to die. But the only death they will still have is going to the eternal judgment for them, referred to as the second death. They will be miserable forever after that, having rejected God's way and not repenting and coming to Christ, being left with their sins, which God needed to stop. The death, called still their destruction, is not annihilation, from what the Bible is showing.



That was addressed for believers, for whom death lost its sting, because believers can have the certain hope, with Jesus, for the resurrection, being restored to come to God, in God's perfect will, for their happiness where God will have them forever. No unbelievers have anything lost of the sting of death, generally not having that hope, unless they are deceived with what they believe, without the repentance with coming to Christ.

Hades is depicted as being thrown into the lake of fire at the time of the final judgment before the throne of God, at which those judged will go to their lasting misery that is the appropriate consequence of what things they did of their will in their lives, from then on. Those things of that time have not occurred yet, but still will.

I think maybe you don’t understand what safe houses are on Christian forms. This particular safe house is for full preterists to share their beliefs and for non full preterists to ask full preterists what they believe.

safe houses are not debate threads nor are they places for people with differing views to espouse their own beliefs.

 

[FredVB]

I think maybe you don’t understand what safe houses are on Christian forms. This particular safe house is for full preterists to share their beliefs and for non full preterists to ask full preterists what they believe.

safe houses are not debate threads nor are they places for people with differing views to espouse their own beliefs.

I do understand actual safe houses well enough. You seem to not understand the history of this thread. Even with the name, that subject was not excluded from discussion on this thread from either perspective, and it has been discussed in this thread by others. And it was no debate from me, I was not even arguing against preterism, there was a question, and I give answers from what Bible scriptures clearly show. You may freely give your interpretation of those scriptures, it is not being debated.

I don't have what many others call an orthodox view of what is coming, anyway. We are not far from the fall of civilization, that God would not stop.

 

[parousia70]

I don't have what many others call an orthodox view of what is coming, anyway. We are not far from the fall of civilization, that God would not stop.

When you say “we are not far”, do you mean the same thing the apostles meant 2000 years ago when they said “we are not far” Or do you mean something different?

Nations rise and fall. There’s nothing new about that. Should the United States, or even western civilization, fall, It would have no more to do with Bible eschatology than the fall of the Mayans or the Aztecs, or the Hopi, or the French Revolution or that the fall of the Global British empire had...

For certain, Scripture teaches that the earth and material cosmos will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are unending and perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33) and through it all, the Church will never fall (Matt 16:28) and indeed continues through all ages, world without end, amen (Eph 3:21)

 

[FredVB]

When you say “we are not far”, do you mean the same thing the apostles meant 2000 years ago when they said “we are not far” Or do you mean something different?

Nations rise and fall. There’s nothing new about that. Should the United States, or even western civilization, fall, It would have no more to do with Bible eschatology than the fall of the Mayans or the Aztecs, or the Hopi, or the French Revolution or that the fall of the Global British empire had...

For certain, Scripture teaches that the earth and material cosmos will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are unending and perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33) and through it all, the Church will never fall (Matt 16:28) and indeed continues through all ages, world without end, amen (Eph 3:21)

I mean believers, which is all I mean by "the church", will be here, until they are caught up to be with God with Christ, being removed from those of the world yet unrepentant with their wickedness and destructiveness on whom God's judgment is coming, which Christ bore for those in him. But before all that believers should not remain in Mystery Babylon, where they are not really meant to be, but should get out, as they will be urgently called to do at the end, as it will fall. Going to another country will not be enough to get out. Getting out from cities is the only way to get out.

I hear believers say we can read news and see things coming to fulfillment from that. Maybe many of them do not see the news, except maybe for news of one source and limit any further news. But I see the issues of the world, and know of the destructiveness, that there is warning about from the Bible (Revelation 11:18). And I see that there is the destructiveness from all cities of civilization. There will be a last attempt at recovered civilization, but it will be godless, and treacherous. Not even the state of Israel is safe to flee to, many still will die there, as many will die as Mystery Babylon will fall.

State of the World

- Current CO2 Level: 413.03 ppm (~143 ppm higher than pre-industrial level, 1.63 ppm higher than this time 1 year ago)

- Species Extinctions: 200 per day

- Wealth Inequality: all-time high. Richest 1% have roughly 50% of all wealth. Poorest 50% have around 1% of all wealth.

- Sexual Violence: at least 1 in 3 women have been assaulted. This is likely a significant underestimate.

- Modern Slavery: 21-30 million people, not including sweatshop labor

- Military Spending: $1.7 trillion annually

- Racism: average U.S. household, net wealth in 2013—white family $117k, Latino family $2k, Black family $1.7k.

- Oceanic Dead Zones: 500+ and expanding, now larger than Europe

- Deforestation: 250 trees are cut down per second

- Desertification: 8 acres are desertified per minute

- Soil Erosion: 5 tons of soil is destroyed per second, primarily by agriculture

- Industrial Toxins: now found in every mother’s breast milk, on top of Mount Everest, in the deepest parts of the ocean, and at the North Pole.

Humanity is waging a 'suicidal' war on nature, UN chief warns - CNN

 

[parousia70]

I find scripture is the best interpreter of scripture. Newspapers do a terrible job at it.
In fact, to date, everyone has used the news to interpret Bible eschatology has been 100% wrong in their predictions.
Not the track record I’d feel comfortable hanging my hat on.

 

[FredVB]

I mean believers, which is all I mean by "the church", will be here, until they are caught up to be with God with Christ, being removed from those of the world yet unrepentant with their wickedness and destructiveness on whom God's judgment is coming, which Christ bore for those in him. But before all that believers should not remain in Mystery Babylon, where they are not really meant to be, but should get out, as they will be urgently called to do at the end, as it will fall. Going to another country will not be enough to get out. Getting out from cities is the only way to get out.

I hear believers say we can read news and see things coming to fulfillment from that. Maybe many of them do not see the news, except maybe for news of one source and limit any further news. But I see the issues of the world, and know of the destructiveness, that there is warning about from the Bible (Revelation 11:18). And I see that there is the destructiveness from all cities of civilization. There will be a last attempt at recovered civilization, but it will be godless, and treacherous. Not even the state of Israel is safe to flee to, many still will die there, as many will die as Mystery Babylon will fall.

State of the World

- Current CO2 Level: 413.03 ppm (~143 ppm higher than pre-industrial level, 1.63 ppm higher than this time 1 year ago)

- Species Extinctions: 200 per day

- Wealth Inequality: all-time high. Richest 1% have roughly 50% of all wealth. Poorest 50% have around 1% of all wealth.

- Sexual Violence: at least 1 in 3 women have been assaulted. This is likely a significant underestimate.

- Modern Slavery: 21-30 million people, not including sweatshop labor

- Military Spending: $1.7 trillion annually

- Racism: average U.S. household, net wealth in 2013—white family $117k, Latino family $2k, Black family $1.7k.

- Oceanic Dead Zones: 500+ and expanding, now larger than Europe

- Deforestation: 250 trees are cut down per second

- Desertification: 8 acres are desertified per minute

- Soil Erosion: 5 tons of soil is destroyed per second, primarily by agriculture

- Industrial Toxins: now found in every mother’s breast milk, on top of Mount Everest, in the deepest parts of the ocean, and at the North Pole.

Humanity is waging a 'suicidal' war on nature, UN chief warns - CNN

I find scripture is the best interpreter of scripture. Newspapers do a terrible job at it.
In fact, to date, everyone has used the news to interpret Bible eschatology has been 100% wrong in their predictions.
Not the track record I’d feel comfortable hanging my hat on.

It is not really good to just ignore all the news. And this is really relevant, just as responsibility God gave for us in this world is, this news mean we are failing the responsibility, in the worst way. And this is with scriptures in themselves which are relevant.

Revelation 18:2-18 prophecy using symbolism is not about just one city, cities have fallen before and such for one city is not relevant on the world scale in prophecy. This prophecy is there because it is meaningful for all believers at the time it is to be fulfilled. Believers are not supposed to remain in Mystery Babylon, they should not wait to be told to get out, either, though when it is so late they will be. But believers are not supposed to remain there to wait for that. Believers should have nothing to do with the destructiveness Revelation 11:18, the nations are all deceived, and believers should not remain deceived with them. God was not pleased with Babel at the start of civilization, and divided humanity at the time up for that.

 

[parousia70]

I am hoping that one of the "full preterists" will explain how everyone has already received their resurrection bodies, since they believe that all prophecy has been fulfilled.

Ah, there's the rub. There isn't a sensible answer.

You ask for a sensible answer, multiple times, complaining no one seems to have one, don't hold your breath, all the while high-fiving your buddies with your presumed "gotcha" etc... I make the good faith effort to provide a sensible, thoughtful, thorough, scriptural answer 6 months ago and it's crickets from you ever since...

I (and our readers) can now only assume you have no cogent, sober rebuttal or refutation of my post #347, otherwise you would have offered one by now.

I guess enough time has passed for me to go ahead and take the W, even if its by forfeit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is a rebuttal from parousia's post #347.

Resurrection of the dead is a very sensible, scriptural doctrine from the preterist view.

Actually, from every evangelical Christian's view.

#1) The dead are all those who finished their lives on planet earth. They are a category of people -- the dead.

Again, complete agreement.

#2) In Paul's time, and going all the way back to Adam, the dead went to Hades/Sheol at their physical deaths. This place was NOT Heaven and it was NOT the lake of fire (commonly known as "hell" in today's parlance). Those places weren't prepared yet.

Agreed.

#3) The bible then teaches WHEN Hades/Sheol was to be destroyed (Rev 20:12-15; 1 Cor 15:55-55), giving up the dead.

Right.

Preterists maintain that 1 Cor 15:55-56 clearly lists that Hades/Sheol was destoyed when the Age of the Law of Moses came to its end:

1 Corinthians 15:54-56
then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O HADES is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW

That is the victory slogan when the resurrection of the dead happens. All agree on that.

What preterists seem to miss is that the Bible describes TWO resurrections, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
John 5:29 - and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

We are not still waiting for Hades to be destroyed. We are not still waiting for the Law of Moses to reach its end. We are not still waiting for the dead to be raised out of Hades and taken into their eternal inheritance in Heaven or eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire ("hell" in common parlance). All the dead are now either in Heaven's eternal bliss or in hell. There is no Hadean realm anymore. Hades was destroyed when the dead were raised out of it (1 Cor 15:55-56; Rev 20:12-15).

So then, preterists deny the literalness of Rev 20. Sad.

The Law Age was forever ended at the destruction of the Temple.

Which temple are you referring to?

Look very closely at the saying that "death is swallowed up in victory." Look how Paul ties it to the end of the Age of the Mosaic Law and NOT the end of the New Covenant Age (which had barely even begun yet). Paul writes:

'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O Hades is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW -- 1 Cor 15:55-56

Paul's point is that Christ's death and resurrection from the dead is the VICTORY over death. And believers will never die spiritually But all unbelievers will experience the SECOND death.

Acts 24:15
having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that THERE IS ABOUT TO BE a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous (Young's LITERAL translation)

This verse says the same thing as John 5:29, quoted above.

What you haven't proven is that all prophesy has been fulfilled already.

 

[robycop3]

Jesus was resurrected from the paradise area of hades, but no one else was. When the rapture occurs, Jesus will first call the saints from paradise to join Him in the air, then, call up all saints then alive. This event will occur shortly before the antichrist enters the coming new temple & commits the "abomination of desolation" by setting up a statue of himself in it & declaring himself God. These, of course, are all future events. death & hades won't be cast into hell til AFTER Jesus returns.

 

[parousia70]

Please don't hold yer breath waiting. You might become quite cyanotic !

Project much Roby?... I just had to hold my breath for 6 months...

 

[robycop3]

I think maybe you don’t understand what safe houses are on Christian forms. This particular safe house is for full preterists to share their beliefs and for non full preterists to ask full preterists what they believe.

safe houses are not debate threads nor are they places for people with differing views to espouse their own beliefs.

Anyone who has a doctrine they can ACTUALLY DEFEND, JUSTIFY, & PROVE TRUE doesn't need a "safe house".

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus was resurrected from the paradise area of hades, but no one else was.

Correct.

When the rapture occurs, Jesus will first call the saints from paradise to join Him in the air, then, call up all saints then alive.

Incorrect. Jesus "brings with Him" all the saints from heaven (already died) and gather up the living saints.

1 thess 4:-
14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

This event will occur shortly before the antichrist enters the coming new temple & commits the "abomination of desolation" by setting up a statue of himself in it & declaring himself God. These, of course, are all future events. death & hades won't be cast into hell til AFTER Jesus returns.

No, the Second Advent of Christ will occur at the end of the Trib, when He Himself ends it at the battle of Armageddon. Rev 20 speaks of the FIRST resurrection in v.5.