Full Preterist Safe House

[Ed Parenteau]

The Roman siege of J & the destruction of the temple was the culmination of the "days of vengeance" prophesied by Jesus against that generation of Jews.

We can certainly agree on that, but not just the cut and paste, but the whole of it.
Luke 21: 20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

These reformation scholars from the past recognized the apostles believed the second coming would happen in their generation, they just believed they were wrong.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers (1877)
Romans 811-14) The Apostle now gives a reason for enforcing this and other duties upon his readers. The end of the world itself is near.
St. Paul, like the other Apostles (comp. 1Peter 4:7; Revelation 22:20, et al.), certainly believed that the Parousia, or Second Coming of Christ, was near at hand.

Meyers New Testament Commentary (1844)
Romans 8: 11-14Ἡ ΣΩΤΗΡΊΑ] the Messianic salvation, namely, in its completion, as introduced by the Parousia, which Paul, along with the whole apostolical church, regarded as near, always drawing nearer, and setting in even before the decease of the generation.

MacLaren's Expositions (11 February 1826 – 5 May 1910)
Romans
LOVE AND THE DAY
SALVATION NEARER
Romans 8:11.There is no doubt, I suppose, that the Apostle, in common with the whole of the early Church, entertained more or less consistently the expectation of living to witness the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Pulpit Commentary (The Pulpit Commentary is a homiletic commentary on the Bible created during the nineteenth century under the direction of Rev. Joseph S. Exell and Henry Donald Maurice Spence-Jones)
Romans 8:Verses 11-14. - There is now interposed among the particular admonitions a call to watchfulness, with a view to holiness in all relations of life, on the ground that the day is at hand. There can be little, if any, doubt that the apostle had in view the second coming of Christ, which he with others supposed might be close at hand,

Vincent's Word Studies
And that knowing the time - now
Referring to the injunction of Romans 13:8. Knowing, seeing that ye know. The time (τὸν καιρόν), the particular season or juncture. Rev., season. See on Matthew 12:1. Now (ἤδη), better, already.
Our salvation (ἡμῶν ἡ σωτηρία)Others, however, and better, as Rev., construe ἡμῶν of us (salvation of us, i.e., our) with nearer, and render salvation is nearer to us. This is favored by the order of the Greek words. The other rendering would lay an unwarranted emphasis on our. The reference is apparently to the Lord's second coming, rather than to future glory.

 

[robycop3]

These people believed it, but it didn't happen then, as is quite-obvious.

The "all that is written" that Jesus mentioned was what was written UP TO THAT TIME. The intel about His parousia was written a little later.

Now remember, a much-greater punishment for the murder of Jesus fell on the Jews a coupla generations later, in 135-136 AD when Hadrian booted them outta their land & gave that land to the Philistines. (Modern Palestinians. "Palestine" is Latin for "Philistia".)

For each of us, His return is no farther than THE NEXT HEARTBEAT...

 

[Ed Parenteau]

These people believed it, but it didn't happen then, as is quite-obvious.

The "all that is written" that Jesus mentioned was what was written UP TO THAT TIME. The intel about His parousia was written a little later.

Now remember, a much-greater punishment for the murder of Jesus fell on the Jews a coupla generations later, in 135-136 AD when Hadrian booted them outta their land & gave that land to the Philistines. (Modern Palestinians. "Palestine" is Latin for "Philistia".)

For each of us, His return is no farther than THE NEXT HEARTBEAT...

The whole Old Testament was written at that time and therefore all that was written in it would be fulfilled. That would be everything prophesied. And notice that Jesus was received into heaven in a cloud and must remain in heaven until the time of the restoration of all things.
Acts 3: 20and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

Once the temple was destroyed, Old Covenant Judaism was cast out. Daniel 9: 24“Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
Galatians 4:21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.


Acts 3:22“Moses said, ‘THE LORD GOD WILL RAISE UP FOR YOU A PROPHET LIKE ME FROM YOUR BRETHREN; TO HIM YOU SHALL GIVE HEED to everything He says to you. 23‘And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’

The "parousia" was given to them at the same Olivet discourse.


Matthew 24: 1Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming(Parousia), and of the end of the age?”

 

[robycop3]

And those things are yet to happen.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I have been labeled a preterist by cf because I say the second coming was in 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds, and Jesus came into power through St. Constantine who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow. And he sent his messengers with a trumpet and gathered the elect of all the Church together, to Nicea.

If Jesus returned in 312 AD and set up His Millennial rule, how come there is no evidence of this??

And how come there's so much evil STILL in the world today?

btw, the Bible teaches that following the Millennial Reign of Christ, Satan is loosed for a short time, and Jesus ends the battle of Gog and Magog abruptly and the Great White Throne occurs, and ALL unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire. And then there will be a NEW heaven and a NEW earth, and all believers enter into the eternal state.

So, how does preterism answer all this?

Thanks.

 

[robycop3]

If Jesus returned in 312 AD and set up His Millennial rule, how come there is no evidence of this??

And how come there's so much evil STILL in the world today?

btw, the Bible teaches that following the Millennial Reign of Christ, Satan is loosed for a short time, and Jesus ends the battle of Gog and Magog abruptly and the Great White Throne occurs, and ALL unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire. And then there will be a NEW heaven and a NEW earth, and all believers enter into the eternal state.

So, how does preterism answer all this?

Thanks.

It can't, & it doesn't. Preterism is based entirely upon imagination & guesswork.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It can't, & it doesn't. Preterism Well, of course.

So, why are there any preterists?

 

[robycop3]

Because they've been misled by the garbage of Luis De Alcazar, Preston, Gentry, etc. Scripture and history prove preterism false, both full & partial.

 

[mlepfitjw]

It took my teacher 1 year to go verse by verse and explain Revelation Chapter 1 to Chapter 21, and take time to explain everything to the reasoning why he believed that it is all done and over with and how the Lord God Almighty had the victory over satan, death, and hell/she'ol.

Imagine 1 year at a hour of time every sunday verse by verse of the Revelation and being taught everything going on at any church today.

How much time and effort has to go into trying to understand such a difficult book (sorry not a book but a letter) that hebrews, jewish believers who received this letter would look read and understand instantly.

I believe that in Ad 70 the second fall of the Jerusalem temple, was the fulfilment of which Yeshua Christ spoken to his disciples in Matthew 24. @robycop3 It's alright if you do not believe that though, my dear friend. Teacher was sound enough considering taking time to teach it verse by verse, for an entire year.

 

[robycop3]

Sorry, Sir, but your teacher needed to study some history before he tried to teach the Rev. Plainly, the eschatological events have NOT yet happened. Their occurrence is not found in history, and history would not have missed such gigantic happenings.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

If Jesus returned in 312 AD and set up His Millennial rule, how come there is no evidence of this??

And how come there's so much evil STILL in the world today?

btw, the Bible teaches that following the Millennial Reign of Christ, Satan is loosed for a short time, and Jesus ends the battle of Gog and Magog abruptly and the Great White Throne occurs, and ALL unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire. And then there will be a NEW heaven and a NEW earth, and all believers enter into the eternal state.

So, how does preterism answer all this?

Thanks.

Christ bound the strongman in order to plunder his house. The house of God became a den of thieves. Jesus told them they were of their father the devil. Then satan was loosed to destroy Israel and Jerusalem. Go to youtube and watch a couple of documentary videos on the siege of Jerusalem and you will see when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies when it's desolation happens. If you listen carefully, you will hear about the 5 month siege and the Roman scorpions(weapons) used, you can see where they came up from Har-magedan. Josephus records the Romans using their Ballistas that shot 1 talent stones high into the air. Would they not come down like hailstones?
1st, Rev 20:4 is in the past tense "they reigned with Christ for a thousand years", then in verse 6 it says "they will reign with Christ for a thousand years" which is future tense.
2nd, notice the reign is "with Christ". So based on the following verses, how long is a thousand years with Christ?
Psalms 90:For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.
2 Peter 3:8
Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

When did Christ start his reign and how long will it last?
Luke 22: 69“But from now on THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the power OF GOD.”
Matthew 28: 18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
1 Corinthians 15: 24then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.

Now for the "New Heavens and New Earth" It's the new covenant world as opposed to the old covenant world.
Luke 17: 20Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Isaiah 65:17-25-Life goes on in the "new heavens and new earth" and as the Church grows, things get better over time and more sanctified.
Isaiah 66:22-24
Rev 22:
6And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.

7“And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book.”

10And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city(The Church). 15Outside(The Church) are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

 

[robycop3]

When jesus said He's coming quickly, He was referring to the speed of His return, not the time between then & His return.

And the Roman siege of J was NOT part of the prophesied eschatological events. Those events will be WORLDWIDE.
Catapults didn't shoot a hail of stones. It took some time to load & [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] between shots, & they were subject to malfunction.
The "abomination of desolation" didn't occur then. That will occur when the antichrist/beast enters a new temple the Jews will build in Jerusalem, sets up a statue of himself in that temple, & proclains himself to be God, as prophesied by Paul in 2 Thess.2.

And once again, Jesus prophesied only ONE return to this world, & His messenger angel told John that "every eye shall see Him, even those who pierced Him." Obviously, that hasn't yet happened.

Scripture & history prove preterism false.

 

[mlepfitjw]

Why is it today we have the spirit of Christ in us and some wait for a return Physically, roboy? Just curious your thoughts , thanks for being so nice

 

[FreeGrace2]

Christ bound the strongman in order to plunder his house. The house of God became a den of thieves. Jesus told them they were of their father the devil. Then satan was loosed to destroy Israel and Jerusalem. Go to youtube and watch a couple of documentary videos on the siege of Jerusalem and you will see when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies when it's desolation happens. If you listen carefully, you will hear about the 5 month siege and the Roman scorpions(weapons) used, you can see where they came up from Har-magedan. Josephus records the Romans using their Ballistas that shot 1 talent stones high into the air. Would they not come down like hailstones?
1st, Rev 20:4 is in the past tense "they reigned with Christ for a thousand years", then in verse 6 it says "they will reign with Christ for a thousand years" which is future tense.
2nd, notice the reign is "with Christ". So based on the following verses, how long is a thousand years with Christ?
Psalms 90:For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.
2 Peter 3:8
Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

When did Christ start his reign and how long will it last?
Luke 22: 69“But from now on THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the power OF GOD.”
Matthew 28: 18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
1 Corinthians 15: 24then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.

Now for the "New Heavens and New Earth" It's the new covenant world as opposed to the old covenant world.
Luke 17: 20Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Isaiah 65:17-25-Life goes on in the "new heavens and new earth" and as the Church grows, things get better over time and more sanctified.
Isaiah 66:22-24
Rev 22:
6And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.

7“And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book.”

10And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city(The Church). 15Outside(The Church) are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

I'm sorry, but none of this is relevant to the current question.

1. IF IF IF all prophecy was fulfilled by 328 AD , or whenever it was claimed to be, why isn't there a completely new earth and heaven right now?

2. And why aren't living believers in their permanent resurrection bodies?

3. And why aren't any believers reigning with Christ, who is King of kings, and Lord of lords, ruling the entire kingdom of believers only?

4. Oh, and, btw, why are there STILL unbelievers on earth, and evil as well?

Those who want to be full preterits must be able to give a really good answer to all these questions.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

When jesus said He's coming quickly, He was referring to the speed of His return, not the time between then & His return.

And the Roman siege of J was NOT part of the prophesied eschatological events. Those events will be WORLDWIDE.
Catapults didn't shoot a hail of stones. It took some time to load & [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] between shots, & they were subject to malfunction.
The "abomination of desolation" didn't occur then. That will occur when the antichrist/beast enters a new temple the Jews will build in Jerusalem, sets up a statue of himself in that temple, & proclains himself to be God, as prophesied by Paul in 2 Thess.2.

And once again, Jesus prophesied only ONE return to this world, & His messenger angel told John that "every eye shall see Him, even those who pierced Him." Obviously, that hasn't yet happened.

Scripture & history prove preterism false.

Encyclopedia Britannica: Ballista, ancient missile launcher designed to hurl javelins or heavy balls. . ... The largest ballistas were quite accurate in hurling 60-pound weights up to about 500 yards. Compare catapult. Ballista - Wikipedia
Josephus Book 3 section 166: "Vespasian then set the engines for throwing stones and darts round about the city. The number of the engines was in all a hundred and sixty, ..., and stones of the weight of a talent (coincidence?) were thrown by the engines that were prepared for that purpose, together with fire,
"new temple the Jews will build in Jerusalem" Scripture please.
How will those who pierced Him be there? Scripture please with your answer.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

I'm sorry, but none of this is relevant to the current question.

1. IF IF IF all prophecy was fulfilled by 328 AD , or whenever it was claimed to be, why isn't there a completely new earth and heaven right now?

2. And why aren't living believers in their permanent resurrection bodies?

3. And why aren't any believers reigning with Christ, who is King of kings, and Lord of lords, ruling the entire kingdom of believers only?

4. Oh, and, btw, why are there STILL unbelievers on earth, and evil as well?

Those who want to be full preterits must be able to give a really good answer to all these questions.

1. I'm not one who claims 328 AD. Rather when the Old Covenant temple was destroyed.
2. Where does the bible say there will be a resurrection of your body?
3. I already showed you, you just didn't respond to the scripture I gave.
4. I already showed you, you just didn't respond to the scripture I gave.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1. I'm not one who claims 328 AD. Rather when the Old Covenant temple was destroyed.

You need to read all that I post if you want to reply. I said "whenever it was claimed to be".

2. Where does the bible say there will be a resurrection of your body?

Wow. 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 20:5

3. I already showed you, you just didn't respond to the scripture I gave.

Paul wrote about a future reigning with Christ, (2 Tim 2:12) or "sharing in His glory" (Rom 8:17), which is the same thing. What Scripture did you give?

4. I already showed you, you just didn't respond to the scripture I gave.

Give it again. I don't recall any verses that support your claim.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Wow. 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 20:5

2. Nothing there about your body being resurrected. Show me just one verse that says the body that you're in will be resurrected. You're assuming something not taught in scripture. And besides that, Paul is speaking in the 1st person present tense and echoes what Jesus said.
Matthew 16:
27For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
And also repeated in
Rev 22:
12“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

 

[FreeGrace2]

2. Nothing there about your body being resurrected.

So you just want to be difficult. Is that it?

Show me just one verse that says the body that you're in will be resurrected.

These are the verses I already gave you and you apparently waved off.

Wow. 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 20:5

So, one at a time:

1 Cor 15:52 - in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Rev 20-
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

You are free to deny the reality of this resurrection of our bodies, but the Bible is clear, nonetheless.

You're assuming something not taught in scripture.

No, you're denying what is IN Scripture.

And besides that, Paul is speaking in the 1st person present tense and echoes what Jesus said.
Matthew 16:
27For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
And also repeated in
Rev 22:
12“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

neither of these verses supports your unbiblical notions.

I've given you 3 passages that clearly speak of a bodily resurrection.

 

[robycop3]

Why is it today we have the spirit of Christ in us and some wait for a return Physically, roboy? Just curious your thoughts , thanks for being so nice

Because, Jesus made it plain He will return & rule the world. Given the condition of the world today, some are distressed badly. I believe we should all "run the race that's set before us" as Jesus will return at the appointed time. But we know the antichrist must come first But when he does, "look up, for our redemption draws near."