Can you be saved not believing Jesus is God?

Can a person that believes Jesus is the Son, but not God be saved?

  • Yes, I believe so.

    Votes: 22 37.9%
  • No, don't think so.

    Votes: 33 56.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 5.2%

  • Total voters
    58

OzSpen

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You have to believe that Jesus is who He is. Otherwise, you are believing in a Jesus of your own creation.

Hammster,

I have to agree with you.

"Jesus said to them [the Jewish leaders], 'My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.' For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5:17-18 NIV).

We worship another Jesus and promote another Gospel if we don't accept that Jesus is God.

Oz
 
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Dave L

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Jesus warns a church in Revelation to repent, and tells them if they overcome, He wont erase their names from the book of life:


Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.


Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


And this is the church that is claimed to be the reformed Church, yet Jesus starts off warning them they are dead, that most of them had defiled their white robes (which represent being righteous), and warned to repent - ending by telling them if they overcome, their names will remain in the book of life.


Overcoming is after salvation, and there’s no guarantee we will be an overcomer.

Pure white raiment (robes) are what the righteous saints are given, and are part of their wedding attire.


Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.


Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


Believers get white robes, but can defile their robes - if they defile their robes, their names are blotted out of the book of life.


Most of those in the church at Sardis had defiled their white robes:


Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.


Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Jesus also warned some churches in Revelation that many of them had soiled their robes, and some had lost them completely, and were naked.


Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


What’s sad is those church members in Revelation 3:17-18 were naked, but thought they were clothed.


They did something to defile their garments, that they mistakenly thought was ok with God.


In other words, they believed they could live a sinful life, and remain in Christ.


They were deceived by OSAS into thinking grace was a license to sin, with no eternal consequences.

Again, there’s no guarantee that believers will overcome, per Jesus’ warning to the churches in Revelation.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.” 1 John 3:9–11 (KJV 1900)
 
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Dave L

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Easily disproved.

Free will, and being able to resist the drawing of the Holy Spirit is absolutely and unequivocally provable in scripture!

Reformed dogma claims God unconditionally elects to salvation, that grace is irresistible, and therefore the Holy Spirit is irresistible.


This is easily seen to be false.


Jesus came only for Israel. Matthew 15:24.


They were God’s elect. Isaiah 45:4


Yet His own, that He came for, REJECTED Him. John 1:11:


Joh 1:11 He came unto HIS OWN, and his own received him NOT.


Jesus, who is God, yearned for His own elect people whom He came for, to come to Him - but they refused:


Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!


This is impossible in Calvinism - for the elect, who Jesus came for, to be able to resist and reject Him and salvation - yet they did just that.


Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.


Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should FIRST have been spoken to YOU: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


This happened because God gave us free will, and the Holy Spirit is resistible - there is no such thing as irresistible grace.


Stephen preached to the same elect Israelites (Isaiah 45:4) who Jesus came for (John 1:11) who He yearned would come to Him (Matthew 23:37) and told them WHY they killed the prophets God sent, and rejected and killed their own Messiah when He came for them: because they RESIST the Holy Spirit.


Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always RESIST THE HOLY GHOST : as your fathers did, so do ye.


Act 7:52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered (Jesus).


The Holy Spirit, without which no man can say Jesus is Lord, is resistible, because of free will.


Faith comes by hearing Gods word Romans 10:17, not by first being regenerated, and grace is resistible because the Holy Spirit is resistible.


Salvation is not guaranteed from having faith, man has freewill to receive Jesus John. 1:12, or resist the drawing by the HS and reject Jesus, as the elect Israelis did, when Jesus came for His OWN John 1:11.


There is NO irresistible grace or unconditional Election.


Israel, Gods elect, resisted the Holy Spirit and rejected Jesus, their savior.


As Jesus said to them:


Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Joh 5:40 And ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life.
All you prove is that you think people are not so sinful they cannot save themselves. James says people cannot even control their tongue. Give God the glory in salvation.
 
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zoidar

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zoidar,

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" (Rom 10:9 ESV).

To be saved we must confess and believe "Jesus is Lord". What does that mean?

Can I bow before Him and call him Lord without accepting he is God?

Oz

Yes, to confess him lord in your life.
 
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zoidar

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The Apostles believed in the Deity of Jesus Christ, after His Resurrection, but even then Thomas doubted! I don't recall any Gospel reference during the time of Jesus on earth, where the Apostles believed that Jesus was God. Do you know of any?

No, maybe they did first know after the resurrection.

You skipped the other question btw.
 
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Bond-servant of Christ

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We discussed if we can believe Jesus is God without believing in his death for our sins

I am sure that a person can believe in the full Deity of Jesus Christ, and have an unbiblical view of His Death.
 
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fhansen

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What do you think? Can a person that believes Jesus is the Son, but not God be saved?
Yes, none of us as individuals have perfect theology truth be told; limitations and ignorance are part of the human lot whether we like admitting to it or not. There will be surprises for all in heaven. Faith is based on knowledge and yet knowledge can be less than perfect while the basic faith in a good and trustworthy and loving God is still present-and still pleasing to Him.
 
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chad kincham

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That’s laughable. All you need to do is go to the Desiring God website and do a search for repentance.

Piper teaches that repentance is part of believing, which is wrong - it’s separate from belief.

Jesus told several churches in Revelation that they needed to repent of sinful things they were doing, and 1 John 1:9 says to believers that they must confess their sins committed after salvation, to have them forgiven.

Confessing your belief again won’t do it - you must confess your sins.
 
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Mark Quayle

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This is also wrong! repentance DOES cause regeneration which is the same as being "born-again". In Titus 3:15 Paul is speaking about the new birth, "not by works [done] in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit". The word "regeneration", is in the Greek, "παλιγγενεσία", which itself comes from "πάλιν and γένεσις", which is literally, "new birth". The idea that the Holy Spirit first "regenerates" the heart of the sinner, and enables them to call on the Lord for salvation, is "theology" of some Reformed, but NOT taught in the Bible. A person can only be "born again" ONCE, which IS regeneration.In this verse in Titus, the sinner is "washed, regenerated and renewed", when they are saved!
Perhaps you can show the logic more explicitly, of how Titus 3:15 shows that repentance CAUSES regeneration. I don't see it there. I would also like to know how the notion of repentance uncaused by regeneration is possible in those who are slaves to sin, dead in sin, unable to submit to God's law and unable to please God. Reformed theology chimes right in with Titus 3:15.
 
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zoidar

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Perhaps you can show the logic more explicitly, of how Titus 3:15 shows that repentance CAUSES regeneration. I don't see it there. I would also like to know how the notion of repentance uncaused by regeneration is possible in those who are slaves to sin, dead in sin, unable to submit to God's law and unable to please God. Reformed theology chimes right in with Titus 3:15.

Titus 3:15? :scratch:

What does that have to do with faith and regeneration? Maybe you quoted the wrong verse?
 
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Bond-servant of Christ

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Perhaps you can show the logic more explicitly, of how Titus 3:15 shows that repentance CAUSES regeneration. I don't see it there. I would also like to know how the notion of repentance uncaused by regeneration is possible in those who are slaves to sin, dead in sin, unable to submit to God's law and unable to please God. Reformed theology chimes right in with Titus 3:15.

Reformed theology rejects the Bible's position on salvation, by changing the meaning of passages like John 3:16, where even John Calvin says, that "whosoever" means "everyone without exception", which is hardly "Calvinistic" language! If, as here the Bible says, that Jesus Christ has died for the sins of the whole human race, then it is obvious to those who don't hold to Calvinistic theology, that Jesus' blood is available for the "whosoever" that He has died for! It is only by the "limitations" placed on Jesus' death by your "theology", that says that Jesus only died for "His sheep". This is unbiblical rubbish!
 
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Jaxxi

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what about the Holy Spirit?
What about it? The Holy Spirit is really something that you do not really know is real until you experience it. At 19, my uncle was on his deathbed. I had just seen him 2 weeks prior and he looked fine. No one prepared me for the skeletal physically retarded bald man that I saw when I entered the room. " Thats not him!" I said and they put his glasses on him and I saw into his soul. It was Charles. He was terrified. Then it was like I was standing behind myself and someone delivered the most beautiful instructions of what he needed to do at this time and they answered all of his questions verbally but he asked them telepathically. Then I was looking at him again and tears streamed his face. " I love you. I have to go." I said and left the room visibly shaken. " Where did that come from? What you told him was amazing" my boyfriend said. " That wasn't me. What did I say?" It hit me like a train and I got goosebumps! " That was the Holy Spirit!" He died an hour later.
 
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Bond-servant of Christ

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What about it? The Holy Spirit is really something that you do not really know is real until you experience it. At 19, my uncle was on his deathbed. I had just seen him 2 weeks prior and he looked fine. No one prepared me for the skeletal physically retarded bald man that I saw when I entered the room. " Thats not him!" I said and they put his glasses on him and I saw into his soul. It was Charles. He was terrified. Then it was like I was standing behind myself and someone delivered the most beautiful instructions of what he needed to do at this time and they answered all of his questions verbally but he asked them telepathically. Then I was looking at him again and tears streamed his face. " I love you. I have to go." I said and left the room visibly shaken. " Where did that come from? What you told him was amazing" my boyfriend said. " That wasn't me. What did I say?" It hit me like a train and I got goosebumps! " That was the Holy Spirit!" He died an hour later.

for starters, the Holy Spirit is not "it", but Him, the Third Person in the Holy Trinity, and He IS Yahweh!
 
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fwGod

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A cup of cold water is all that a thirsty person needs. After they are refreshed, then provide the full meal.

A sinner only needs to know that Jesus is Savior "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."

After they are saved, then you can begin to teach them about all other things of doctrinal importance. But start with the baby level of things.. then progress to adult things as they progress in understanding.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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If you decidedly reject Jesus as God I will call that person's salvation into more question than I would say someone who affirms the deity of Jesus. Part of our salvation is to know who God is, hence why it was a matter of importance to the Church enough for it to need an ecumenical council. Two in fact.

As to those who are unaware that Jesus is God, who knows. Who God saves is up to him and him alone. I am not in the habit of saying anyone, including myself, will ultimately be saved or damned. It's up to God's right judgement and in that judgement I am satisfied.

I do believe God wants us to know him through his Son and this involves reflection on the nature of the Trinity.
 
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Jaxxi

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for starters, the Holy Spirit is not "it", but Him, the Third Person in the Holy Trinity, and He IS Yahweh!
Why is the Holy Spirit not " Her" as in the Father Son and " Bride" Holy Spirit is called The Great Comforter, which is a female quality. That would make a family no? That makes more sense to me. I said " It" because I was unaware Spirits had gender, and assumed androgyny but...
 
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Hammster

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Why is the Holy Spirit not " Her" as in the Father Son and " Bride" Holy Spirit is called The Great Comforter, which is a female quality. That would make a family no? That makes more sense to me. I said " It" because I was unaware Spirits had gender, and assumed androgyny but...
He’s a Person. Jesus refers to Him with masculine pronouns.

That’s why. ;)

And the church is the Bride.
 
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