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Can you be saved not believing Jesus is God?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by zoidar, Dec 4, 2020.

Can a person that believes Jesus is the Son, but not God be saved?

  1. Yes, I believe so.

    22 vote(s)
    37.9%
  2. No, don't think so.

    33 vote(s)
    56.9%
  3. Other

    3 vote(s)
    5.2%
  1. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not with uppercase L.

    There are other verses that are more clear Jesus is God. John 1 for an example.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  2. Bond-servant of Christ

    Bond-servant of Christ Well-Known Member

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    only if He is acknowledged as YHWH
     
  3. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When we are saved we don't want to sin, or there is something really wrong. Mortal sin, then you mean sin to death? I think this Bible verse (1 John 5:16) is hard to understand. What is sin unto death?

    Some say all sins are the same to God, but I say there are different degrees of severity to sin. If a Christian sins gravely then I think his heart will harden, the Holy Spirit be quenched, where there no longer is salvation.


    I think if you deny Christ to be God, you know it but willingly choose not to believe it. Who would do such a thing, I don't know, and yes I believe it may cost him or her salvation, or he/she never was saved to begin with. Most of these cases I think is because of ignorence, I hope, and not willful rejection.

    This is kind of scary, and that's an understatement. There is the question what striving to enter the narrow gate means. We aren't talking about polishing facades here. Doing this, doing that won't save us. It's in the heart, a heart connected with Christ, in which we live to love God and our neighbour. That's how I see it.

    No, I don't believe we can live in mortal sins and be saved. Then we need to repent.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  4. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I did not say there aren't other verses more apt than John 3:16 to say that he died FOR the whole world. I said John 3:16 is not the one to use for that.

    Now if you want to argue whether he paid the penalty for absolutely everyone who ever sinned, we can go there.
     
  5. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think John 3:16-17 maybe is the clearest text that Jesus bore the sins of everyone.

    I would be interested to hear your understanding of it.
     
  6. Bond-servant of Christ

    Bond-servant of Christ Well-Known Member

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    start a thread!
     
  7. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would follow that thread with interest. :)
     
  8. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Causation is not always time-dependent. After all, are any of the fallen capable of doing anything on their own, to please God? Or are they all slaves to sin and at enmity to God?

    Of course faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. How does that rule out the need for regeneration as the cause of faith?

    Again, PRECEED, does not mean time-dependent, but cause dependent.
     
  9. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    But it does not say the condition is to believe Jesus is the God.
     
  10. Bond-servant of Christ

    Bond-servant of Christ Well-Known Member

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    Lord=Yahweh, which means Jesus=God
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Does Paul, in his letter to the Romans, give any indication that Jesus is God?
     
  12. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then you need to look up teh terem Kurios as it pertains to rulers. IN Rome which was the predominant culture of the day Cesars were Kurios! and they were the children of the gods! IOW they were divine!

    So when Paul said we must confess (which means more than just lip service) that Jesus is Lord, we are proclaiming that Jesus is the Son of God and Divine Himself!
     
  13. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In our translations, it would be questionable. But in teh Greek and understanding the terminology of Paul in the culture- there is no doubt that Paul in Romans declared Jesus is God or Divine!
     
  14. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    You are correct bond-servant.

    You have given the one side of his doctrine. This is the other side:

    Calvin’s online edition of 1 John 2:2 states:

    And not for ours only He added this for the sake of amplifying, in order that the faithful might be assured that the expiation made by Christ, extends to all who by faith embrace the gospel.

    Here a question may be raised, how have the sins of the whole world been expiated? I pass by the dotages of the fanatics, who under this pretense extend salvation to all the reprobate, and therefore to Satan himself. Such a monstrous thing deserves no refutation. They who seek to avoid this absurdity, have said that Christ suffered sufficiently for the whole world, but efficiently only for the elect. This solution has commonly prevailed in the schools. Though then I allow that what has been said is true, yet I deny that it is suitable to this passage; for the design of John was no other than to make this benefit common to the whole Church. Then under the word all or whole, he does not include the reprobate, but designates those who should believe as well as those who were then scattered through various parts of the world. For then is really made evident, as it is meet, the grace of Christ, when it is declared to be the only true salvation of the world.​

    I used the language he was a fence-sitter. Perhaps it would be better to state he wavered between universal and limited atonement.

    Oz
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Fortunately, the Puritans that can’t after him didn’t waver.
     
  16. Bond-servant of Christ

    Bond-servant of Christ Well-Known Member

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    take a look of Calvin on Mark 14:24 and Colossians 1:14. The man must have lost his mind at some time!
     
  17. Bond-servant of Christ

    Bond-servant of Christ Well-Known Member

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    there are two "gospels". the One which is the Gospel according to the Teachings of the Holy Bible; and the other is the gospel according to the Reformed/Calvinists. Of the latter the Apostle Paul says, "another gospel, Which is not another" (Galatians 1:6-7), and therefore a "pseudo-gospel", and must be rejected as not being from the God of the Holy Bible!
     
  18. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Sadly, you are mistaken.
     
  19. Bond-servant of Christ

    Bond-servant of Christ Well-Known Member

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    rather, very much the truth in what I say! you guys are so obsessed with your personal "doctrines", that you make God out to be a hater of lost sinners, by excluding the greater majority! "God SO VERY MUCH loves the ENTIRE WORLD"!
     
  20. Hammster

    Hammster Our weapons are Word, Water, Bread, Wine. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Well, you are free to believe your personal doctrine.
     
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