Can you be saved not believing Jesus is God?

[zoidar]

I thought repentance was about turning your back on sin, changing your mind concerning sin. What you have described sounds like confession --not repentance.

#1 means knowing one is a sinner, knowing the need for forgivess (that is change your mind on sin, isn't it?), and knowing only trusting in Jesus can save us, and that is supposed to empower us to to turn our back on sin. (At least this is the Lutheran understanding. If you have another understanding I like to hear it.)

#2 means confess and handing your whole heart to Christ. For Him to give us the Holy Spirit so we can overcome sin.

 

[zoidar]

#1 and #2 do not appear to be all that different because they both can make room for a person to justify sin with the thinking they are saved. But believers have to confess and forsake their sin in order to receive mercy (Proverbs 28:13). A person acknowleding they are a sinner can be taken not as a one time event when we first come to Christ, but it can be wrongfully taken to mean that we must always commit mortal sin as a way of life. If this is what you meant, I do not believe that such a view is biblical or moral. To say we are currently a sinner now in a our walk with God does not compute. There is no point of even thinking about God if one thinks they will remain as a sinner. God and sin do not mix.

Anyways, getting back on topic: Do you honestly believe a person will be saved if they deny that Jesus is God. Ignorance of such a truth is one thing (and I believe they would be saved in ignorance), but a denial of this truth is another thing altogether. I do not see how a person can be saved and yet deny how Jesus is God. Worshiping a Jesus who is not God is worshiping another Jesus. Can a person be saved by believing in another Jesus who is not of the Bible? I would say.... “no.” Then again, I shouldn't be surprised people think otherwise. People want to just do their own thing and think their own way these days. They do not want to submit to what God's Word says. They like to just pick and choose what parts they like.

#2 is the moment of being saved, not how to stay saved.

#1 is more of a continunent salvation.

 

[zoidar]

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]
I know how I was saved. I'm not clear about how we stay saved. I think we should admit we are sinners still, in need of grace and forgiveness.

 

[chad kincham]

not taught anywhere in the entire Bible! "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever WILL, let him take the water of life freely." (Rev.22:17)

The fact that the elect nation of Israel rejected their own Messiah who came for them, and killed Him because they resisted the Holy Spirit, is fatal to the irresistible grace doctrine from the five points of Calvinism.

 

[revybub]

No , other religions also believe in Jesus but the sticking point is that they do not acknowledge Him as God.

If you don't believe Jesus is God then you don't believe Jesus Himself who said:
"I and the Father are One".

You either believe Jesus as He Himself says He is or you don't truly believe in Him at all.

Exactly. It is most in particularly important.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Remember, Regeneration causes the change, or even IS the change. Piper is only saying that repentance does not cause the regeneration.

This is also wrong! repentance DOES cause regeneration which is the same as being "born-again". In Titus 3:15 Paul is speaking about the new birth, "not by works [done] in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit". The word "regeneration", is in the Greek, "παλιγγενεσία", which itself comes from "πάλιν and γένεσις", which is literally, "new birth". The idea that the Holy Spirit first "regenerates" the heart of the sinner, and enables them to call on the Lord for salvation, is "theology" of some Reformed, but NOT taught in the Bible. A person can only be "born again" ONCE, which IS regeneration.In this verse in Titus, the sinner is "washed, regenerated and renewed", when they are saved!

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Well, other religions don't believe Jesus died for our sins. Won't help you much if you believe Jesus is God, but deny his death for our sins.

I doubt very much if a person were to accept that Jesus Christ is God, and deny that He died for their sins.

 

[zoidar]

I doubt very much if a person were to accept that Jesus Christ is God, and deny that He died for their sins.

Not many, but there are all kinds of people. In New Age anything goes (except Jesus death for our sins I guess).

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Not many, but there are all kinds of people. In New Age anything goes (except Jesus death for our sins I guess).

in "new age" they certainly will not believe that Jesus is Almighty God

 

[zoidar]

in "new age" they certainly will not believe that Jesus is Almighty God

Not the biblical God, no, I don't think, but God, sure.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Not the biblical God, no, I don't think, but God, sure.

rather, "god", or some "divine being", which basically is the devil!

 

[GooFYone]

Hey randy, do agree with me or no?



If Jesus is Gods spoken word, do you believe in Gods word?

 

[zoidar]

rather, "god", or some "divine being", which basically is the devil!

Hm, you don't think anyone can possibly know Jesus is God without know about his crucifixion?

 

[GooFYone]

I was hoping that you had misspoke.

Sounds like hammster.

 

[GooFYone]

Hm, you don't think anyone can possibly know Jesus is God without know about his crucifixion?

Hey bud, how’s going. God is love.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Hm, you don't think anyone can possibly know Jesus is God without know about his crucifixion?

Huh? why mention the crucifixion here?

 

[zoidar]

Huh? why mention the crucifixion here?

We discussed if we can believe Jesus is God without believing in his death for our sins. That must be hard to believe if you haven't heard about his crucifixion.

Btw, didn't the apostles believe jesus was God before they knew he would die for our sins?

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Btw, didn't the apostles believe jesus was God before they knew he would die for our sins?

The Apostles believed in the Deity of Jesus Christ, after His Resurrection, but even then Thomas doubted! I don't recall any Gospel reference during the time of Jesus on earth, where the Apostles believed that Jesus was God. Do you know of any?

 

[GooFYone]

Born of the Holy Spirit.

 

[OzSpen]

What do you think? Can a person that believes Jesus is the Son, but not God be saved?

zoidar,

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" (Rom 10:9 ESV).

To be saved we must confess and believe "Jesus is Lord". What does that mean?

Can I bow before Him and call him Lord without accepting he is God?

Oz