Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

[Timtofly]

Of course not... just seemed odd you would rail against people who think they have God all figured out, right after you made this statement :

"3.5 years started 1 year ago."

Which indicated to me you believe to have Him all figured out...

Maybe it's different when YOU do it?

You are on my case for 1 year when Amil toss out 1000 years like confetti? Proclaiming time has nothing to do with figuring God out. I have not even figured history out, have you? Since you have your own interpretation of Revelation and every thing in your theology has already happened, what is wrong with saying the last year happened?

 

[Douggg]

I did.

Anyone on your ignore list?

Oh, yes there is. That may explain it, why I didn't see it. Thanks.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with negative results the Jews received for violating the terms of the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Maybe not, but there are a few here that deny that Gabriel was bringing a message of hope for Daniel and the faithful ancient Israelites. If it were a message that the Mosaic Covenant were to be confirmed....that wouldn't be a message of hope.

 

[Douggg]

Maybe not, but there are a few here that deny that Gabriel was bringing a message of hope for Daniel and the faithful ancient Israelites. If it were a message that the Mosaic Covenant were to be confirmed....that wouldn't be a message of hope.

What Daniel and his peers had was the Mt. Sinai covenant which was a blessing. It is only when it is transgressed that there are curses involved.

mkgal1, do you read anything in Daniel 9, that Daniel's people and Jerusalem were going to reject the messiah, in any way, or as their King?

The error that you, BAB2, jgr, CG, and others are making is that you are interpreting Daniel 9:26-27, the covenant confirmed for 7 years - is the new covenant in Christ, when it is the Mt. Sinai Covenant.

 

[mkgal1]

It is only when it is transgressed that there are curses involved

And it was - Daniel acknowledged that was the reason for the 70 year desolation:

Daniel 9:11
Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
The curse.—The passages in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, to which Daniel refers, had already been noticed by Isaiah (Isaiah 1), as having received a partial fulfilment in his times. It remains for Daniel to realise the complete “pouring” out of the curse. It is poured out like a torrent of rain (see Exodus 9:33); as the fire melts the silver (Ezekiel 22:20-22), so does the curse cause the nation to melt away.
"Daniel 9:11 Commentaries: "Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him.​

 

[keras]

The error that you, BAB2, jgr, CG, and others are making is that you are interpreting Daniel 9:26-27, the covenant confirmed for 7 years - is the new covenant in Christ, when it is the Mt. Sinai Covenant.

But Daniel 9:27 does not refer to a Covenant at all. It is a treaty of peaceful relations for a fixed term of 7 years, between the nation in the holy Land and the leader of the One World Govt. God, thru Isaiah 28:14-16, calls it the Treaty of Death.

Douggg, I have never 'ignored' anyone, on any forum. Despite intense provocations. Tell you what: if I did you would be on the list. You are the most intransigent and stuck in your false beliefs of the lot.
Is there any possibility that you will change your belief to the truth above?

 

[BABerean2]

Jeremiah 31 did not reveal the means of the new covenant.

That means is found in Daniel 9.


Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."



Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


I continue to ask the question of when was the Gospel taken "first" to the Jews and how long did that period of time last, based on the verse below?


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.



.

 

[Douggg]

But Daniel 9:27 does not refer to a Covenant at all. It is a treaty of peaceful relations for a fixed term of 7 years, between the nation in the holy Land and the leader of the One World Govt. God, thru Isaiah 28:14-16, calls it the Treaty of Death.

4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

That is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[mkgal1]

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

That is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Yes....they were already in the Mt Sinai covenant at that time........but do you see, they had broken that covenant? Daniel was reading Jeremiah....which in part said:

Jeremiah 31:31-33
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, It will not be like the covenant

I made with their fathers

when I took them by the hand

to lead them out of the land of Egypt—

a covenant they broke [Mt Sinai covenant],

though I was a husband to them,”

declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel​

after those days, declares the LORD.

I will put My law in their minds

and inscribe it on their hearts.

And I will be their God,

and they will be My people.​

 

[jgr]

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

Who is the "he" that confirms the covenant?

The answer to that question also tells us what covenant is being referred to.

Describe the grammatical rationale for your answer.

 

[mkgal1]

Fullness of the Gentiles has (IMO) an excellent post here that explains the continuity of the covenants and how Christ fulfilled what was written:

280 Weeks are Determined

 

[Douggg]

Yes....they were already in the Mt Sinai covenant at that time........but do you see, they had broken that covenant? Daniel was reading Jeremiah....which in part said:

Jeremiah 31:31-33
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, It will not be like the covenant

I made with their fathers

when I took them by the hand

to lead them out of the land of Egypt—

a covenant they broke [Mt Sinai covenant],

though I was a husband to them,”

declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel​

after those days, declares the LORD.

I will put My law in their minds

and inscribe it on their hearts.

And I will be their God,

and they will be My people.​

In Jeremiah 31, it does not say confirm the new covenant every 7 years, or for 7 years. Daniel 9:27 is not referring to the new covenant.

 

[Douggg]

Who is the "he" that confirms the covenant?

The answer to that question also tells us what covenant is being referred to.

Describe the grammatical rationale for your answer.

The prince who shall come. The prince who shall come is the closest antecedent to the "he" in Daniel 9:27.

The messiah was cutoff in Daniel 9:26 before the destruction of the temple and city by the people OF the prince who shall come. Not by the people OF the messiah.

What answers what covenant is to be confirmed for 7 years, is the covenant Daniel was referring to in his prayer. And what covenant in the bible is confirmed on a 7 year cycle (the Mt. Sinai covenant). And what covenant is not (the new covenant in Christ). And what covenant is tied to the year shmitah cycle which the land is rested - which is confirmed in 2Chronicles36:20-21.

20 And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:

21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, I have never 'ignored' anyone, on any forum. Despite intense provocations. Tell you what: if I did you would be on the list. You are the most intransigent and stuck in your false beliefs of the lot.
Is there any possibility that you will change your belief to the truth above?

Ezekiel 39:17-20 the Armageddon event and Ezekiel 39:21-29 is concrete 100% cannot be wrong, as Jesus is speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned to this earth, and in Ezekiel 39:28 is him bringing all of the Jews back to the land of Israel equating to Matthew 24:31.

So the answer is no that I am changing my overall position.

And as soon as the EU makes changes to have a ten leader form of government, either that, or ten core decision making body with one leader over them - then I will be proven right.

Macron is not the great opposer (to Jesus) . At minute 11:22, the ten kings.

At minute 13:39, the person has to be Jewish by his mother being a Jew.

 

[nolidad]

please pass on, I wish her well. Her work is appreciated.

thank YOu !

 

[nolidad]

What Gospel was being preached in Jerusalem after Jesus's Resurrection, if not the New Covenant?

We can wait for you to get back to reply. I agree with Douggg's sentiment. Please let your wife know that her work is appreciated by many people.

Thank You I will pass on all your well wishes to her!

No! The gospel we preach is trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus for the payment of our sin! That is not found at all in the New Covenant.

The Gospel is the gospel of salvation- to the Jew first and then to the gentile! It is the saving of the remnant until god saves all of Israel at the end of the trib period and it is the calling out of Gentiles a people for Jesus!

The blood of Jesus is the basis of the New Covenant and the basis of our salvation. Remember we as gentiles are simply partakers in the New covenant- not taker overs.

 

[nolidad]

That's an argument from silence.

Daniel's prophecy carves out 490 years for Daniel's people (the ancient biblical Israelites):

Daniel 9:24
“A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
​

......and reality matches the prophecy. If it didn't....then Daniel, Jeremiah, and Isaiah (and Jesus) would have been false prophets.

Well of course! For God did not have the gentiles in mind when He prophesied the new covenant! Reread Jer. 31 for your self!

Yes a period of 70 7s which we know as 490 years. YOU have declared that Jesus made the 7 year covenant with Israel in 27 AD! And that is 483 years! Well that cannot be at all!

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

If we are to accept your timeline then Jesus died in 27 Ad for that is the prophecy! Messiah was not cut off after 69 1/2 weeks (which puts the date at 30AD when He actually died).

That crushes your whole line of argument.

 

[nolidad]

Since Fruchtenbaum is a Dispensationalist, he is not an unbiased source.


I am still waiting on your answer to when, and how long, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, as described by Paul in Romans 1:16.


.

Since Varner is a covenantalist- He is not an unbiased source. That door swings both ways! And it doesn't matter what theology one holds- but who is biblically correct to SCripture as written and not revised. If that is the standard with which we judge faithfulness to Scripture- Varner loses!

I have answered you r question! Go back and look it up! Paul went to the Jew first until he died! Peter almost entirely to the Jew only as well as James and John (until his exile).

So are you asking for teh answer to "the Jews exclusively"? And if so: show me in the new covenant or in Daniel where that is part of the prophecy or th eNew Covenant.

 

[mkgal1]

In Jeremiah 31, it does not say confirm the new covenant every 7 years, or for 7 years. Daniel 9:27 is not referring to the new covenant.

Consider this: at the time of Daniel's prayer...the ancient Israelites had already broken the Mt Sinai covenant and were reaping the curses of that *conditional* covenant. However.....as Daniel was reading....Jeremiah had prophesied of a coming day where there would be a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the house of Judah ....a covenant that was *unlike * the Mt Sinai covenant....the one they had already broken (Jeremiah 31).

So...tell us your understanding of *that* covenant that Jeremiah spoke of.

 

[nolidad]

I'm not sure what you're comparing about mine and JW's beliefs.....but was it not in the power of the Holy Spirit that Jesus's disciples advanced the Gospel? Were they not His Body? Jesus told His disciples this:

Luke 21
13This will be your opportunity to serve as witnesses. 14So make up your mind not to worry beforehand how to defend yourselves. 15For I will give you speech and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

Why? Because you here altered teh Scriptures like they do! Teh Daniel passage clearly says that a "he" establishes a covenant for 7 years and now you say the disciples preaching the gospel ifs part of that 7 years! He is never they! And besides can you show where preaching the giospel has anything to do with this prophecy and with the new covenant? I am at a loss in seeing how th egosdpel fits here.

The historical timeline has Jesus's crucifixion in 30 AD....halfway through the 70th week. Isn't 70 and 1/2 after 69 weeks?

70th week = 26/27 AD ------Cross (30 AD)----->34 AD (Gospel goes out to Gentiles).

Daniel 9:27
And He will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering
......I'm aware of the objection to sacrifices not ceasing...but if God is rejecting unecessary sacrifices, wasn't there an end in 30 AD? God's acceptance of sacrifices was a critical part of the ancient sacrificial process.

So isn't 600 years after 69 weeks! But people normally do not use "after" like that! And you knwo that. That is just playing a word game to try to defend a position. There is many divisions orf time here and you love to be specific with them, but for this you want 69 weeks to actually mean 69 1/2 weeks? C'mon! You are better than that!

If God is rejecting sacrifices He no longer accepts, then why didn't He say so? Why does He need you and BAB and that video guy Varner to edit His word for HIm? Not one of you has justified altering what was said to justify what you wish it to mean!