Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

[Douggg]

We are not "they"....nor are modern-day Jews. Keep it in context.

There will be a great falling away from believing Jesus is the messiah during that time in Christianity.

2Thessalonians2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[mkgal1]

Douggg - Confirming the Mosaic covenant again (what you're asserting) would only mean the curses and destruction would come upon them (the ancient Israelites already under the Mosaic Covenant).

Let me see if I can put it another way (and ill try my best to be short).

As Paul called the Mosaic Covenant "the ministry of death" (2 Corinthians 3:7)....how would that be an encouragement of hope from Gabriel? And Daniel already knew of the curses of the Mosaic Covenant....so why would Daniel even have been given a vision in the first place, if that were the case?

To put it in a more relatable context - it would be like me telling my children, "if you aren't home by midnight, you're not getting the keys to the car for a week". That would be the agreement (like a conditional covenant as the Mosaic Covenant was). Then the children get home at 2 in the morning and are pleading for a NEW agreement....one that removes the consequence from the first agreement. If I merely confirmed the first agreement - it'd be the same thing as me ignoring their pleas.

Do you see my point?

***I didn't do so well on keeping it short

I'd recommend reading commentaries from when the church was in agreement on this:

"Daniel 9:1 Commentaries: In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans--" Daniel 9:1 Commentaries: In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans--

 

[jgr]

As none of the commentators or Christian expositors could possibly know all the truths of God's Plans, Matthew 11:25, why would you want to believe them on this issue?
Daniel 9:24 is plainly not yet fulfilled. Jesus brought the means for it's fulfillment, but none of it has happened yet.

Jude 1 NASB
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints.

The choice:

1. 1700 years of historical defenders of the true faith
2. keras

Never been easier.

Awaiting a single name of a denier from #1 above.

 

[keras]

Jude 1 NASB
3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints.

The choice:

1. 1700 years of historical defenders of the true faith
2. keras

Never been easier.

Awaiting a single name of a denier from #1 above.

Our Christian faith has been received, that is a given.
But the six Promises of Daniel 9:24 remain to be fulfilled. Those who like to think they have, are obviously wrong. Just look around at the world toady!

 

[mkgal1]

Our Christian faith has been received, that is a given.
But the six Promises of Daniel 9:24 remain to be fulfilled. Those who like to think they have, are obviously wrong. Just look around at the world toady!

This is only an opinion without any support to back it up.

 

[mkgal1]

Daniel in his prayer referred to the law of Moses, v11

Correct. Daniel was admitting the ancient Israelites had transgressed the Law of Moses....and Deuteronomy 28:15-67 stated the consequences of their transgression. Daniel recognized their sin - understood they were experiencing the partial consequences of their sin under the Mosaic Covenant - and he was pleading for salvation for his repentance:

Daniel 9:11
All Israel has transgressed Your law and turned away, refusing to obey Your voice; so the oath and the curse written in the Law of Moses the servant of God has been poured out on us, because we have sinned against You.
​

The "oath and the curse written in the Law of Moses is here, in Deuteronomy:

Deuteronomy 28:15-67​

 

[Douggg]

Then the children get home at 2 in the morning and are pleading for a NEW agreement....one that removes the consequence from the first agreement. If I merely confirmed the first agreement - it'd be the same thing as me ignoring their pleas.

The Jews were not pleading for a new agreement.

 

[mkgal1]

The Jews were not pleading for a new agreement.

The key part of what I posted (which you didn't quote) is, "one that removes the consequences from the first agreement".

Daniel was pleading for that, on their behalf (the ancient Israelites). This was the covenant they were in....that they had transgressed:

Deuteronomy 28:15
If, however, you do not obey the LORD your God by carefully following all His commandments and statutes I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you...​

Deuteronomy 28:66-67
So your life will hang in doubt before you, and you will be afraid night and day, never certain of survival. 67In the morning you will say, ‘If only it were evening!’ and in the evening you will say, ‘If only it were morning!’—because of the dread in your hearts of the terrifying sights you will see.
​

It would take a new covenant to rescue them from the death penalty the Mosaic Covenant imposed on them for their transgression. So Daniel interceded on behalf of the ancient Israelites.

Daniel 9:15-18
Now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and who made for Yourself a name renowned to this day, we have sinned; we have acted wickedly. O Lord, in keeping with all Your righteous acts, I pray that Your anger and wrath may turn away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; for because of our sins and the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all around us.So now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of Your servant. For Your sake, O Lord, cause Your face to shine upon Your desolate sanctuary. Incline Your ear, O my God, and hear; open Your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears Your name. For we are not presenting our petitions before You because of our righteous acts, but because of Your great compassion.
​

 

[parousia70]

none of the commentators or Christian expositors could possibly know all the truths of God's Plans...why would you want to believe them on this issue.....Daniel 9:24 is plainly not yet fulfilled. Jesus brought the means for it's fulfillment, but none of it has happened yet.

Are you expecting us to believe you are the exception to your above rule? Why should we NOT count you among "all Christian expositors who don't know all the truth so should not be trusted on the issue"?

Our Christian faith has been received, that is a given.
But the six Promises of Daniel 9:24 remain to be fulfilled. Those who like to think they have, are obviously wrong. Just look around at the world toady!

Newspaper eisegesis is a terrible foundation to build a doctrine upon. I prefer to stick to scripture, those who believe scripture are obviously correct in affirming ALL 6 promises stand as fulfilled:

1. to finish the transgression
2. to make an end of sins
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy
6. to anoint the most Holy

1. Finish the Transgression.
Recall that to begin with, the Jews were in captivity for 490 years because of not honoring the Sabbath - they didn't give the land rest every seven years. The 70 years of capitivity in Babylon gave the land its rest. This is in 2 Chronicles 36- it's a whole lot of verses. Then God gives them another 490 years - maybe this time is their last chance.

2. Make an End of Sins.
Though we still sin, our sins no longer have power to prevent us from salvation. Jesus, by fulfilling the Law, ended sins strength. Sin is now utterly powerless to prevent anyone from Salvation. In fact, ONLY sinners get saved.

3. Make Reconciliation for Iniquity.
Only Jesus could do this. He came to make reconciliation for us.

4. Bring in Everlasting Righteousness
Jesus Himself said that He fulfilled all righteousness.

5. Seal up the Vision and Prophecy
Contrary to what most teach about this passage, "seal up" doesn't mean to hide it from men's understanding until the last days. From Strong's, seal is [2856] chatham: meaning to close up, make an end of, stop. So Jesus made the end of this vision and prophecy. It doesn't say "all visions and prophecies" for you naysayers. It says "the vision..."

6. Anoint the Most Holy
Again, Jesus was anointed at His baptism in Mark 1. He is the Most Holy.

 

[parousia70]

Nope, do you?

Of course not... just seemed odd you would rail against people who think they have God all figured out, right after you made this statement :

"3.5 years started 1 year ago."

Which indicated to me you believe to have Him all figured out...

Maybe it's different when YOU do it?

 

[keras]

Are you expecting us to believe you are the exception to your above rule? Why should we NOT count you among "all Christian expositors who don't know all the truth so should not be trusted on the issue"?

My modus operandi is to point out what the Bible Prophets wrote.
Modern knowledge and hindsight also help our understanding.
Daniel 12:10 says that just a few will understand what will happen in the last days.

Newspaper eisegesis is a terrible foundation to build a doctrine upon. I prefer to stick to scripture, those who believe scripture are obviously correct in affirming ALL 6 promises stand as fulfilled:

1. to finish the transgression
2. to make an end of sins
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy
6. to anoint the most Holy

I reject all your 'proofs' of the fulfilment of these six items.
I do so because to simply look at the world today, proves they are not.

 

[parousia70]

My modus operandi is to point out what the Bible Prophets wrote.

Same Modus Operandi of 1700 years of Christian Expositors, none of whom agree with you, which you claim can't be trusted.

I reject all your 'proofs' of the fulfilment of these six items.
I do so because to simply look at the world today, proves they are not.

Got it.
You hold extra Biblical, uninspired opinion, and your own biased, fallible observation of the world today as authoritative ABOVE scripture.

Duly noted.

 

[Douggg]

It would take a new covenant to rescue them from the death penalty the Mosaic Covenant imposed on them for their transgression. So Daniel interceded on behalf of the ancient Israelites.

Daniel interceded for the Jews in Babylonian exile and captivity - to end the exile and captivity. Daniel did not ask for a new covenant.

 

[Douggg]

My modus operandi is to point out what the Bible Prophets wrote.
Modern knowledge and hindsight also help our understanding.
Daniel 12:10 says that just a few will understand what will happen in the last days.

I reject all your 'proofs' of the fulfilment of these six items.
I do so because to simply look at the world today, proves they are not.

Keras, for the sake of everyone reading your post (s) - please note who you are addressing and what post.

 

[BABerean2]

Daniel did not ask for a new covenant.

But Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


And the death of Christ is in Daniel chapter 9.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


.

 

[Douggg]

But Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


And the death of Christ is in Daniel chapter 9.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


.

Jeremiah 31 did not reveal the means of the new covenant.

 

[mkgal1]

Daniel interceded for the Jews in Babylonian exile and captivity - to end the exile and captivity. Daniel did not ask for a new covenant.

The Mosaic Covenant declared destruction for the ancient Israelites as they didn't carry out their part of the *conditional* covenant. Their captivity was a recognized consequence....but it was only a partial consequence.

Daniel 9:13-14
Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our iniquities and giving attention to Your truth. Therefore the LORD has kept the calamity in store and brought it upon us. For the LORD our God is righteous in all He does; yet we have not obeyed His voice.​

 

[Douggg]

The Mosaic Covenant declared destruction for the ancient Israelites as they didn't carry out their part of the *conditional* covenant. Their captivity was a recognized consequence....but it was only a partial consequence.

Daniel 9:13-14
Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our iniquities and giving attention to Your truth. Therefore the LORD has kept the calamity in store and brought it upon us. For the LORD our God is righteous in all He does; yet we have not obeyed His voice.​

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with negative results the Jews received for violating the terms of the Mt. Sinai covenant.

 

[keras]

Keras, for the sake of everyone reading your post (s) - please note who you are addressing and what post.

Obviously I was addressing Parousia in #471
However, what I said was to everyone too.

Same Modus Operandi of 1700 years of Christian Expositors, none of whom agree with you, which you claim can't be trusted.

Unless you can show me where I have erred in my presentations of the Prophetic Word, then your accusations are just hot air.

You hold extra Biblical, uninspired opinion, and your own biased, fallible observation of the world today as authoritative ABOVE scripture.

This is a typical response of those who have had their cage rattled by being shown how wrong their beliefs are.

Again; just vindictive and unpleasant comments, without any proper rebuttal. We can safely assume that you have no answer to my posts.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim, it would be helpful to the rest of us for you to refer to the other poster and post you are responding to.

I did.

Anyone on your ignore list?