Stand Back and Stand By

[KCfromNC]

Sounds so very 1933.

You meaning is clear, as crystal.

 

[cow451]

You meaning is clear, as crystal.

Right before it's broken.

 

[Nithavela]

Sounds so very 1933.

If you can't have law, you can at least have order.

 

[98cwitr]

Sounds so very 1933.

More like 1954

Communist Control Act of 1954 - Wikipedia

 

[cow451]

More like 1954

Communist Control Act of 1954 - Wikipedia

No. Not hardly. Try again.

 

[Aldebaran]

How about telling them to stand by, followed immediately by saying someone needs to do something about Antifa? That seems like basically the same thing, more or less...

Someone does need to do something about Antifa. If the democrats in charge of the area won't, and the business owners aren't allowed to, then someone who is willing to risk the consequences should.

 

[cow451]

Someone does need to do something about Antifa. If the democrats in charge of the area won't, and the business owners aren't allowed to, then someone who is willing to risk the consequences should.

You are advocating vigilantes? Not very law and orderly.

 

[Pommer]

Someone does need to do something about Antifa. If the democrats in charge of the area won't, and the business owners aren't allowed to, then someone who is willing to risk the consequences should.

“How do you hold a moonbeam in your hand?”
The Director of the FBI sez that ANTIFA is more a philosophy than an organization.
Good luck in using the Constitution and the Law of the Land in quashing thought!
Good night!

 

[Aldebaran]

“How do you hold a moonbeam in your hand?”
The Director of the FBI sez that ANTIFA is more a philosophy than an organization.
Good luck in using the Constitution and the Law of the Land in quashing thought!
Good night!

No need for using the Constitution and the law when they already have the ability to get people fired from their jobs for disagreeing with BLM rhetoric.

 

[cow451]

No need for using the Constitution and the law when they already have the ability to get people fired from their jobs for disagreeing with BLM rhetoric.

Who is “they”?

 

[98cwitr]

No. Not hardly. Try again.

Since this act is still on the books, maybe Trump could enforce it.

 

[cow451]

Since this act is still on the books, maybe Trump could enforce it.

I think he should absolutely have at it. Let’s see how this new and improved SCOTUS handles freedom of expression.

 

[wing2000]

No. Not hardly. Try again.

Somoza '36?

 

[ZNP]

Proud Boys - Wikipedia

The picture is of two people who are Proud Boys at a neo confederate rally.

So yes, neo confederates wave the confederate flag, but that was not a Proud Boys rally. They also wore MAGA hats. So saying that some Trump supporters wave the confederate flag is true, saying that all Trump supporters wave the confederate flag is false.

From what little I have learned about Proud Boys I have not seen any evidence that it is a racist or "confederate flag waving" organization, including this picture you just linked as your "evidence". Even the anti defamation league admits the members are of all different ethnicities and they vehemently reject the allegation they are a racist organization. Nor is it based in the South as their are branches in Canada. The FBI has also backtracked the allegation that they are tied to white supremacists. The chairman is also the director of Latinos for Trump, a Florida based organization. The term "Proud boys" is a response to a culture that promotes "victims". It isn't in any way related to white nationalism or white supremacists. That said, the organization is an alt right organization and many of the members are very likely white nationalists. I think it is fair to describe them as misogynistic (though they would argue they are for traditional values). As for them being a "terrorist" organization I do not see even a slight bit of evidence for that. They have been involved in protests, but have not been convicted of assault in any instance. Therefore they are no more a "terrorist" organization than BLM is.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Sounds so very 1933.

If history is any teacher, after all of the actual far-right people are gone, Antifa will turn on the Social Democrats as well.

After all of the actual far-right wing people were pretty much ousted from Germany after WW2, "antifaschistische aktion" (Aka Antifa, the group that the current group is trying to emulate) began calling Social Democrats (IE: The Bernie Sanders of the world) "Social Fascists" as a result of them refusing to abolish private property rights.

...which basically coincides with Trotsky's teachings:
"Should fascism come to power, it will ride over your skulls and spines like a terrific tank. And only a fighting unity with the Social Democratic workers can bring victory. However, any co-operation with the social democrats is to only be tactical and temporary and social democracy will have to be defeated and subverted by the revolutionary faction"
(In plainer terms...use the social democrats as tools by pretend to be in alliance with them, but as soon as your common enemy is gone and you don't need their help any more, turn on them)


This pattern has played out twice in Germany. Once in the 30's, and again in the 60's.
(including the parts about how it gained a lot of traction starting among college students, and about how it was initially disregarded as "they're not really a group, they're just a movement")

The center-left government of Germany had the good sense to finally call them out for what they were after getting burned twice and in the 1970's, added them to a watch list.


German government institutions such as the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution and the Federal Agency for Civic Education describe the contemporary Antifa movement as part of the extreme left and as partially violent. Antifa groups are monitored by the federal office in the context of its legal mandate to combat extremism.[1][2][3][6] The federal office states that the underlying goal of the Antifa movement is "the struggle against the liberal democratic basic order" and capitalism.[2][3] At times, the movement has been accused by German authorities of engaging in terrorist acts of violence.[7]

The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution describes the field of "anti-fascism" or "Antifa" as extremist[3] and includes it and associated groups in its annual public reports on extremism as part of the topic "far-left extremism".[6] The federal office further notes that "[t]he field of 'anti-fascism' has for years been a central element of the political activity of far-left extremists, especially violent ones. [...] Far-left extremists within this tradition only superficially claim to fight far-right activities. In reality the focus is the struggle against the liberal democratic basic order, which is smeared as a 'capitalist system' with 'fascist' roots".[2] a former director with the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, notes that "even if every convinced democrat is an opponent of fascism, anti-fascism is not per se a democratic position". According to Pfahl-Traughber, one must distinguish between "fascism in a scholarly sense" and "fascism in a far-left extremist sense".[1]


The notion that "Antifa is just an idea" in terms of semantics is accurate...however, "being Anti-fascist" isn't the only idea that they have.


I could start up a movement called AntiNazi tomorrow, and if other parts of our platform were "legalizing dogfighting, defunding the national parks service, and abolishing food safety standards"

People should have the ability to not support that group without disingenuous rebuttals like "well, it's just an idea" or "Oh, so you don't support AntiNazi...that must mean you're pro-nazi"

 

[FireDragon76]

If history is any teacher, after all of the actual far-right people are gone, Antifa will turn on the Social Democrats as well.

After all of the actual far-right wing people were pretty much ousted from Germany after WW2, "antifaschistische aktion" (Aka Antifa, the group that the current group is trying to emulate) began calling Social Democrats (IE: The Bernie Sanders of the world) "Social Fascists" as a result of them refusing to abolish private property rights.

...which basically coincides with Trotsky's teachings:
"Should fascism come to power, it will ride over your skulls and spines like a terrific tank. And only a fighting unity with the Social Democratic workers can bring victory. However, any co-operation with the social democrats is to only be tactical and temporary and social democracy will have to be defeated and subverted by the revolutionary faction"
(In plainer terms...use the social democrats as tools by pretend to be in alliance with them, but as soon as your common enemy is gone and you don't need their help any more, turn on them)


This pattern has played out twice in Germany. Once in the 30's, and again in the 60's.
(including the parts about how it gained a lot of traction starting among college students, and about how it was initially disregarded as "they're not really a group, they're just a movement")

The center-left government of Germany had the good sense to finally call them out for what they were after getting burned twice and in the 1970's, added them to a watch list.


German government institutions such as the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution and the Federal Agency for Civic Education describe the contemporary Antifa movement as part of the extreme left and as partially violent. Antifa groups are monitored by the federal office in the context of its legal mandate to combat extremism.[1][2][3][6] The federal office states that the underlying goal of the Antifa movement is "the struggle against the liberal democratic basic order" and capitalism.[2][3] At times, the movement has been accused by German authorities of engaging in terrorist acts of violence.[7]

The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution describes the field of "anti-fascism" or "Antifa" as extremist[3] and includes it and associated groups in its annual public reports on extremism as part of the topic "far-left extremism".[6] The federal office further notes that "[t]he field of 'anti-fascism' has for years been a central element of the political activity of far-left extremists, especially violent ones. [...] Far-left extremists within this tradition only superficially claim to fight far-right activities. In reality the focus is the struggle against the liberal democratic basic order, which is smeared as a 'capitalist system' with 'fascist' roots".[2] a former director with the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, notes that "even if every convinced democrat is an opponent of fascism, anti-fascism is not per se a democratic position". According to Pfahl-Traughber, one must distinguish between "fascism in a scholarly sense" and "fascism in a far-left extremist sense".[1]


The notion that "Antifa is just an idea" in terms of semantics is accurate...however, "being Anti-fascist" isn't the only idea that they have.


I could start up a movement called AntiNazi tomorrow, and if other parts of our platform were "legalizing dogfighting, defunding the national parks service, and abolishing food safety standards"

People should have the ability to not support that group without disingenuous rebuttals like "well, it's just an idea" or "Oh, so you don't support AntiNazi...that must mean you're pro-nazi"

Germany has different norms and laws regarding speech than the US, and different ideals about social order as well (for instance, glorification of National Socialism is illegal in Germany). A German "extremist" group is not necessarily the same as "terrorist".

 

[Ken-1122]

Finally, it is absolutely wrong to attack one group of protesters, black lives matter, while telling another group, proud boys for example, that they can serve as your hateful auxiliaries.

C'mon; nobody does that

 

[Ken-1122]

Extremists occupy different ends of the spectrum. Anarchists like Antifa on one end and Proud Boys, et al on the other.
Proud Boys are currently allied with White Supremacists because they share common ground in many areas.

If the white supremacists are against the Antifa rioters, they also share a common ground with peace loving Americans.

 

[FireDragon76]

If the white supremacists are against the Antifa rioters, they also share a common ground with peace loving Americans.

White supremacists are against anybody that isn't like them.

 

[Ken-1122]

Perhaps you'd care to point out where he actually condemned white supremacists, rather than claiming he was prepared to do so?