Stand Back and Stand By

[FireDragon76]

Can you give us a reference for this.

Proud Boys - Wikipedia

 

[FireDragon76]

That's basically the trap that pundits and democrats keep setting for Trump, and he keeps falling into it (I suppose we can chalk it up to lack of intelligence on his part, or poor strategy by his campaign team).

Similar kinds of traps keep getting set for Biden, and he's walking into them half of the time too.

Setting the "Trump supports white supremacy" trap is pretty simple:
- name an entity that happened to be present at any sort of far-right event that happened to also include actual white supremacy groups
- Try to get him do denounce them
- Rather than clarify, in an intelligent manner (don't know if he's got the tools for that last part) "Groups that attend rallies that aren't racists themselves, don't magically become racists by proximity if actual white nationalists also happen to be there" He takes the bait and says things like he did in the debate, or says things like "there were good and bad people on both sides"

It's basically the political version of a loaded question. Find an event where maybe 10% of the people there were racist agitators, try to get him to disavow the entire event, so that his choices are "Do it, and insult the 90% of conservatives who were there who aren't racists" or "Don't do it, and then everyone gets to say that he refused to condemn racism"

...it'd be sort of like if there was a huge biker rally like Sturgis, and a bunch of clubs, who weren't involved in the same types of illegal things that the "1%" clubs are involved in, happened to be there in attendance along side the 1% club members who also happened to be there, and setting the expectation that "if someone doesn't condemn the entire event and every club that was in attendance, that means "they refuse to condemn biker gangs".


Biden has been getting the same setup from the conservative side when it comes to the topics of law & order and The Green New Deal, because they know he's trying to walk that edge of "Moderate" versus "Further left". We saw him walk into the Green New Deal trap during the debate.

They basically trashed the green new deal, knowing that Biden would jump to defend it with comments like "it'll pay for itself" and "it's a great plan" (to appeal to the farther left), and then when asked "Do you support the Green New Deal?", he says "No, that's not my plan" (to appeal to more moderate democrats). At which point, the logical response to him would be: "Joe, if you say it's a great plan and it'll pay for itself, then why don't you support it and why isn't that your plan?"...however, the moderator did him a bit of a favor by bailing him out and moving to a different topic.



I'd like to think if we had two smarter candidates as the two front runners, they'd be able to easily navigate through these painfully transparent setups their opposition is throwing at them.

If it devolved anymore, they'd both literally be asking each other
"Have you stopped beating your wife?...it's a yes or no question!"

Stop your pearl clutching.

Whether or not they are overt racists, Proud Boys are vile thugs and asking the president to denounce them would not be asking too much.

 

[FireDragon76]

And yet they don't burn down businesses and hit people in the head with a brick and leave them lying on the pavement to die? Oh my!

Tu quoque fallacy of relevance.

 

[LostMarbels]

I agree they're not a white supremacist group. They may work alongside them, but the direct label doesn't apply.

Now for the catch-22. Trump claims he hadn't heard of them. So during the debate, when asked to condemn white supremacists ideology and groups, he was fed a name by Biden. If it's actually true that Trump knew nothing of the group, it should've been super easy to say "if they are a white supremacist group, I condemn them and any other similar group full stop." But he didn't do that. If he knows of the group, he could have said something along the lines of they aren't a white supremacist group, but I condemn the actual groups that explicitly are white supremacist.

He did the same stupid thing that he did at Helsinki with Putin when he said "I see no reason why it would be them" only to try to correct it a few days later by saying "I meant would NOT be them." He told the Proud Boys to "Stand back, stand by." 2 days later, now it's "I meant stand down, a synonym of stand back." (According to Press Secretary as of today's press briefing) No mention of the stand by comment, but it sure did seem pretty sincere on the debate stage. Trump consistently picks the worst option out of all the easy stances to take. Nobody should give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.

The issue of mischaracterizing the Proud Boys is small potatoes compared to what this President has done in 4 years. We can fix that later.

I think one of the main point you and others miss-out on is the respect Trump commands among his followers. I have said it before, Trump is literally bringing the masses to heel. It's not that he has some massive army to attack like baying dogs. It is quite the contrary. His supporters are passionate, and they are angry. If it were not for their trust that Trump will handle this peacefully, in the courts.... well, it would not be pretty. I have also said if anything threatened Trump his supporters would rise up to protect him in a heartbeat. Let Trump be assassinated.... there will be no one stopping what comes. There will be millions in the streets. That is not a threat. It's not a promise of violence either. It is a testament to how well Trump regulates his own supporters even in difficult times when they are ready to march.

I do not think people realize what they are poking. And what amount of restraint is being shown by 'the other side'.

 

[jgarden]

Convicted felon, Roger Stone, a Trump confident and recipient of a presidential pardon, posing with members of the "Proud Boys" making the "white supremecist" symbol!

Make America Great Again!

 

[Skewpoint]

I think one of the main point you and others miss-out on is the respect Trump commands among his followers.

I don't think we miss out on that at all. What's going on between Trump and his supporters is dangerously close to cult status. I certainly believed and still believe Donald could shoot someone on 5th Ave. and not lose any supporters. There's good reason why his approval rating has been remarkable steady. On the low end, but steady nonetheless.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Stop your pearl clutching.

Whether or not they are overt racists, Proud Boys are vile thugs and asking the president to denounce them would not be asking too much.

Has nothing to do with "pearl clutching"...

If you read my other posts, I said he should be condemning them for a number of reasons.

I simply said "claiming he refused to disavow white supremacy because he refused to disavow the proud boys" was dishonest.

I even commented on the fact that he initially refused to condemn david duke by pretending to not know who he was (when that was obviously a lie...he clearly knew who duke was because he had commented about him 10 years prior when they were both part of the reform party)

If I start and end every post with "Orange man bad, he's the worst orange man to ever be orange and bad and orange and also a bad man", would you then read the entire contents on my posts instead of zeroing in on one or two sentences, then pretending I'm defending Trump? or accusing me of "pearl clutching"

 

[LostMarbels]

I don't think we miss out on that at all. What's going on between Trump and his supporters is dangerously close to cult status. I certainly believed and still believe Donald could shoot someone on 5th Ave. and not lose any supporters. There's good reason why his approval rating has been remarkable steady. On the low end, but steady nonetheless.

You just can't stop, can you? Sorry to say, it's not Trump that has galvanized them. It is not Trump that has messed with them for years to the point that they have had enough.

 

[jgarden]

Enrique Tarrio, National Chairman of the "Proud Boys," with former Florida Governor and current Senator Rick Scott!

Tarrio was also a former Republican Congressional Candidate for the House - Make America Great Again!

 

[cow451]

Now you're acting like you can read his mind. So even if he would have said, "I hereby condemn all white supremacist groups" in response to Chris Wallace's question on the debate stage, there would still be people like you who would then claim, "Yeah, but he didn't actually mean it". That's why there's no point in him continuing to say things the Left keeps telling him to say.

Trump is transparent. He cannot control himself. He wants to continue courting right wing militias.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Enrique Tarrio, National Chairman of the "Proud Boys," with former Florida Governor and current Senator Rick Scott!

Tarrio was also a former Republican Congressional Candidate for the House - Make America Great Again!

It's hard to believe that white supremacists like "Enrique Tarrio" and homophobic extremists like Gavin Mcinnes could have such a deep influence on our government...

 

[Skewpoint]

You just can't stop, can you? Sorry to say, it's not Trump that has galvanized them. It is not Trump that has messed with them for years to the point that they have had enough.

Stop doing what? I'm just doing what you're doing...

I'm not one to lie about how I actually feel. To my own detriment or not, I will tell the truth.

Trump is a very large catalyst, but I can agree that he is a symptom, not the cause. But eventually a cancerous clump takes over, at which point, congratulations; a cult is formed!

 

[jgarden]

EXCLUSIVE: Leader of 'white supremacist' Proud Boys is state director of unofficial support group called Latinos for Trump and has ties to Republicans including the president's son Don Jr., Senator Ted Cruz and Roger Stone, who is a member

• Enrique Tarrio is serving as the Florida state director of a political support group Latinos for Trump, DailyMail.com can reveal
• A spokesman for the Trump campaign told DailyMail.com that neither Tarrio nor his ‘Latinos for Trump’ are affiliated with the president’s official ‘Latinos for Trump Coalition’
• Tarrio is the national chairman of the Proud Boys, the 'white supremacist' group who Donald Trump told to 'stand back and stand by' at Tuesday's debate
• DailyMail.com can reveal that Tarrio, ran for congress as a Republican earlier this year
• Tarrio, 36, has been pictured with Trump confidant Roger Stone who is a Proud Boys member, the president's son Don Jr, and GOP Senator Ted Cruz
• Cruz co-sponsored a Senate resolution based on a petition written by Tarrio to designate the left wing group Antifa as a 'domestic terrorist organization'
• Tarrio posted a selfie of him and Donald Trump Jr. online with the caption: 'Blurry but at least we spoke about the rampant censorship of conservatives'.
• Tarrio is a Cuban American from Miami who was promoted from president of his city's Proud Boys chapter to become the group's national chairman in 2018

1 October 2020

Leader of Proud Boys is state director of Latinos for Trump | Daily Mail Online

Enrique Tarrio, current National Chairman of "The ProudBoys," with Senator Ted Cruz - Cruz co-sponsored a Senate resolution based on a petition written by Tarrio to designate the left wing group Antifa as a 'domestic terrorist organization'

 

[Nithavela]

 

[lasthero]

It's hard to believe that white supremacists like "Enrique Tarrio" and homophobic extremists like Gavin Mcinnes could have such a deep influence on our government...

View attachment 285556

Where did you get that picture from?

 

[KCfromNC]

Yeah, like the concerns if collusion, and a multitude of other things that never happened

"Russia, if you're listening..."

It is weird, it is like his followers want us to not listen to what he actually says or something.

 

[KCfromNC]

Stop your pearl clutching.

Whether or not they are overt racists, Proud Boys are vile thugs and asking the president to denounce them would not be asking too much.

How about telling them to stand by, followed immediately by saying someone needs to do something about Antifa? That seems like basically the same thing, more or less...

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Where did you get that picture from?

It's a picture from the publicity event that Gavin did a few years back where he made out with Milo to try to agitate Fundamentalist Muslims.

I screen capped it from the video of the event that's on youtube (can't directly link the video due to language used in it), but the video clip is out there on youtube all over the place. I had first learned of that publicity stunt from the episode of Rogan's podcast ep. 920 where they discussed it.

Like I touched on earlier, the Proud Boys aren't "good guys" by any stretch of the imagination, but this idea of tying them to white nationalism, homophobia, etc... isn't accurate. Islamaphobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric...sure, they're definitely guilty of that. Showing up to agitate and provoke fights with left wing protesters, sure, they definitely do that as well.

 

[98cwitr]

Trump is transparent. He cannot control himself. He wants to continue courting right wing militias.

Sounds good to me. Someone's got to stand up to the anarchists and communists.

 

[cow451]

Sounds good to me. Someone's got to stand up to the anarchists and communists.

Sounds so very 1933.