Stand Back and Stand By

[Ken-1122]

White supremacists are against anybody that isn't like them.

Tell that to Cow451. He seems to think the Proud Boys align themselves with White Supremacists

 

[FireDragon76]

Tell that to Cow451. He seems to think the Proud Boys align themselves with White Supremacists

There is some fluidity between these groups (they are all Alt-Right extremists, after all, with common fascistic tendencies) and they are willing to at least associate with each other for tactical purposes at rallies and protests.

 

[Ken-1122]

No it doesn't, and the idea that he's done that more than any other president is obviously absolute nonsense.

In the below link he condemns bigotry and racism at least a dozen times over a 3 year period via speeches. Name another president who condemned racism and bigotry that many times over a 3 year period.

 

[Ken-1122]

There is some fluidity between these groups (they are all Alt-Right extremists, after all, with common fascistic tendencies) and they are willing to at least associate with each other for tactical purposes at rallies and protests.

Didn't you just say white supremacists are against anybody who isn't like them? The proud boys aren't like them. C'mon pick a side and stick with it!

 

[FireDragon76]

Didn't you just say white supremacists are against anybody who isn't like them? The proud boys aren't like them. C'mon pick a side and stick with it!

Clearly you have trouble understanding how actual extremist groups try to navigate a pluralistic society to undermine it. Fascists in Germany were willing to side with conservatives when it was convenient, but in the end, they rejected what the conservatives believed in, and enforced their own values on the German state. Likewise, the associations of the Proud Boys and other extremist groups on the Right are ones of convenience and common cause, but that doesn't suggest agreement necessarily.

 

[Ken-1122]

Clearly you have trouble understanding how actual extremist groups try to navigate a pluralistic society to undermine it. Fascists in Germany were willing to side with conservatives when it was convenient, but in the end, they rejected what the conservatives believed in, and enforced their own values on the German state. Likewise, the associations of the Proud Boys and other extremist groups on the Right are ones of convenience and common cause, but that doesn't suggest agreement necessarily.

What evidence do you have that the proud boys work with white supremacy groups?

 

[cow451]

If the white supremacists are against the Antifa rioters, they also share a common ground with peace loving Americans.

Peace-loving White Americans that want to return to the 1950’s or earlier, IMHO.

I love peace but I don’t want militia gun nuts or anarchists claiming they have any common ground with me... because they do not.

 

[cow451]

Tell that to Cow451. He seems to think the Proud Boys align themselves with White Supremacists

They currently have common ground with the White Supremacy groups. Look at the recent history of Afghanistan and how militia allegiances can change based on circumstances.

PB’s and the White Supremacy groups oppose the BLM movement and “liberals” and the idea of a strong federal government. You are right to point out the Proud Boys are not racist in the way most people define it. But they got the label by hanging with the racists. There is a need for them to clean up their image so that people know they just hate women and people from outside North America. And Muslims. Probably Canadians, too. Not sure about Hawaiians.



Fast forward to now: What we’re seeing is the re-emergence of something that has been there this whole time. I’d characterize Proud Boys as a group that straddles the line between militia and a white-supremacist fight club. It’s commonly noted they are in some instances a multiethnic group. Weirdly this is not that atypical, but it is a white-supremacist group. They do believe in the primacy of western culture, and they believe that other places are dirty and degraded. They don’t like Islam. They don’t think very highly of women.

 

[Vylo]

Tell that to Cow451. He seems to think the Proud Boys align themselves with White Supremacists

They are, case in point:

 

[ArmenianJohn]

I'm still wondering how Proud Boys got a designation of "White Supremacists" when a large number of their organization is Hispanic and Black. (and their leader is a guy named Enrique Tarrio who's half Black and half Cuban), and 20% of their membership are people of color.

Perhaps the designation they were looking for was either “Western chauvinist” or "Islamophobic"...or maybe as the SPLC describes them "a far-right fight club"

They can be those things and still be racist, it wouldn't be the first time. I mean, they're also 99% totally gay but that doesn't stop them from hating gays.

 

[ZNP]

They currently have common ground with the White Supremacy groups.

Currently they (the group) doesn't.

Proud Boys chairman condemns white supremacists, says Trump’s message of ‘stand by’ wasn’t call to action

 

[cow451]

Currently they (the group) doesn't.

Proud Boys chairman condemns white supremacists, says Trump’s message of ‘stand by’ wasn’t call to action

Hence my point. Gotta weed out the hangers on. Let the infighting begin. You know the founder got kicked out for being a racist.

BLM has the same growing pains. They let the anarchists get in the act and now are lumped in with them.

 

[ZNP]

Hence my point. Gotta weed out the hangers on. Let the infighting begin. You know the founder got kicked out for being a racist.

BLM has the same growing pains. They let the anarchists get in the act and now are lumped in with them.

It is straight out of the Book of Enoch, God has them fight with each other.

 

[cow451]

It is straight out of the Book of Enoch, God has them fight with each other.

Apparently Enoch is making a comeback.

 

[KCfromNC]

Someone does need to do something about Antifa.

Too bad Donald didn't realize he's the head of the executive branch. Poor guy - first he mistakenly thought Biden was in charge of a national response to rioters, now this. Sad. Maybe it is time for someone better at the job.

 

[ZNP]

Apparently Enoch is making a comeback.

Jude and John quote him, Peter, Paul, James all appear to be heavily influenced by him. That is a very strong seal of approval to me. Also, the phony books of Enoch tell me the enemy is quite concerned with his prophecy and wants to confuse and discredit it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Peace-loving White Americans that want to return to the 1950’s or earlier, IMHO.

No, they want to return to a time when anarchists and rioters were not allowed to destroy other people's property without police interference.

 

[Ken-1122]

They currently have common ground with the White Supremacy groups.

If White supremacy groups are against rioting anarchists, everybody should share a common ground with that aspect of the group. A white supremacy group detesting something evil doesn’t make the evil right.

Look at the recent history of Afghanistan and how militia allegiances can change based on circumstances.
PB’s and the White Supremacy groups oppose the BLM movement and “liberals” and the idea of a strong federal government.

Here is an interview from their chairman where he says they have liberals within their ranks, and they detest white supremacy saying they should be labeled terrorist groups along with Antifa. Kinda contradicts what you said. He didn’t mention anything about BLM, however if they did detest a racist organization like BLM, they would be justified in doing so.

You are right to point out the Proud Boys are not racist in the way most people define it. But they got the label by hanging with the racists.

Do you have something other than your word to confirm this?

 

[Ken-1122]

They are, case in point:

Are you suggesting that because someone waves a confederate flag, that they are a racist? Are you kidding me??? More evil, hatred, and oppression has been done to black people under the guise of Christianity and the Bible than has ever been done under the Confederate flag. Are you also gonna claim anyone who is Christian is a racist since Christianity was such an important part of the KKK and Christianity was used to justify slavery in the USA?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

If the white supremacists are against the Antifa rioters, they also share a common ground with peace loving Americans.

That ties in with an issue that I've been harping on for months on here...which is that people need to stop treating all of these groups as if they're single-threaded in terms of their purpose and goals and basing that off of the semantics of their name or what other group-overlap happens to exist at rallies and events or in terms of ideology.

For instance:

(ASPCA) American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals
(PETA) People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

Purely semantically speaking, both groups sound like they're pretty much the same.

And it's probably pretty common to see members/supporters of both a lot of the same sorts of events. (there's probably even people who give money and support to both)

However, while their positions do have some measure of ideological overlap, they also have some positions that are wildly different, and one could rightfully say that ASPCA is pretty moderated in their approach, while PETA is a little more extreme. (For instance, I'm not aware of ASPCA making a big push to eliminate the word "pet", and make everyone replace it with "animal companion", banning insulin use, or barging into a steak house with a bull horn, or giving financial/legal support to people arrested for vandalizing medical research facilities)

It's sort of a case where people want to judge a group based on the worst possible other group that they happen to share any sort ideological overlap with (even if that overlap has nothing to do with the particular objectionable thing in question).


So it'd be like saying "If you refuse to condemn ASPCA, that means you're refusing to condemn throwing fake blood on others, and breaking into medical research facilities...because ASCPA people happen to be at the same events as PETA people, and the PETA people are for those sorts of things"


It's obvious that the Proud Boys have some views and tactics many reasonable people would find objectionable...however, I don't think it's necessarily fair to saddle them with all of the baggage of white supremacists because they happen to have political ideology overlap in other areas.

CNN actually did a pretty good interview with the leader and it appeared to be a fairly calm conversation where they actually explained their views. I don't agree with a most of their views, but they shouldn't be lumped in with NeoNazis

(him explaining what their ideologies are starts at around the 3 minute mark, he even states that white supremacist groups should be designated as terrorist organizations)