Science vs. Christian

[joshua 1 9]

I think you might very well be right about that. There was a huge regional flood in the Middle East, about the right time for it to work out as you suggest.

Yes what we read in Gen 4:10 and the study of the space satellite photos. The evidence seems to point to Eden being under water. Moses warned them for years and they would not listen to him. Just like we are warning people today.

Gen 4:10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Yes what we read in Gen 4:10 and the study of the space satellite photos. The evidence seems to point to Eden being under water. Moses warned them for years and they would not listen to him. Just like we are warning people today.

Gen 4:10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters.

LXX dates Eden to almost 8000 years ago, which is basically in agreement with archeology

 

[The Barbarian]

Eden would have been a lot farther back then that. We have human cultures developing long before 6000 BC.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Eden would have been a lot farther back then that. We have human cultures developing long before 6000 BC.

Adam and Eve IN THE BIBLE lived 5990 year ago. Science Time Magazine Adam and Eve lived much earlier in time. Eve in the Bible is one of 18 Eves world wide that people are descended from. For example in China they believe there are 9 different women that all the women in China are descended from. Eden in the Bible is one of many biodiverse eco systems. Eden was very important though because this has to do with domesticated plants and animals. Science call this study botany. Science can tell us a lot about how the plants and animals because domesticated in the Middle East. What has been called the furtile crescent. Genesis 15:18 "On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I have given this land— from the river of Egypt to the great River Euphrates— " Science can verify that the people living on the Arab Continental Plate are indeed the descendants of Abraham. The Hebrew people believe that Abraham was the first person to cross the Euphrates River and God gave him all of the land on the other side of that river. Abraham and his descendants.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Eden would have been a lot farther back then that. We have human cultures developing long before 6000 BC.

well, one view is that the Eden story is an accurate (if maybe not completely precise) deep memory of the transition from hunter-gather to farmer...

i.e. the Agricultural Revolution -- arguably the most momentous change ever, for example cumulative to date the AR has caused more climate change than the Ind. Rev.

So Adam & Eve would represent all of those early "Mesolithic" HG cultures you implied, up until about 6000 BC and the dawn of Agriculture (= curse of Gen 3:19) and large urban cities (= Cain living in Nod and building the first city)

 

[Erik Nelson]

Adam and Eve IN THE BIBLE lived 5990 year ago. Science Time Magazine Adam and Eve lived much earlier in time. Eve in the Bible is one of 18 Eves world wide that people are descended from. For example in China they believe there are 9 different women that all the women in China are descended from. Eden in the Bible is one of many biodiverse eco systems. Eden was very important though because this has to do with domesticated plants and animals. Science call this study botany. Science can tell us a lot about how the plants and animals because domesticated in the Middle East. What has been called the furtile crescent. Genesis 15:18 "On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I have given this land— from the river of Egypt to the great River Euphrates— " Science can verify that the people living on the Arab Continental Plate are indeed the descendants of Abraham. The Hebrew people believe that Abraham was the first person to cross the Euphrates River and God gave him all of the land on the other side of that river. Abraham and his descendants.
View attachment 260452

LXX says 7500 years ago

 

[joshua 1 9]

LXX says 7500 years ago

What is LXX? I go by Bishop Ussher and his results are confirmed by Lightfoot. His book is a classic and still as valid today as the day his book was first published. Even if at the time they had no information on anything that took place before Adam and Eve the way we do today, 400 years after he wrote his book.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Eden would have been a lot farther back then that. We have human cultures developing long before 6000 BC.

well, one view is that the Eden story is an accurate (if maybe not completely precise) deep memory of the transition from hunter-gather to farmer...

Actually, that would be the story of Cain and Able. From herder to farmer. But the mention that farming is the consequence of that fall from grace when man went his own way, apart from God, does sound like farming isn't the way God intended things.

i.e. the Agricultural Revolution -- arguably the most momentous change ever, for example cumulative to date the AR has caused more climate change than the Ind. Rev.

For example, the formerly "Fertile Crescent" of Mesopotamia. Some anthropologists argue that farming was a disaster for humanity. God seems to agree, given the way the story of Cain and Able plays out. And for good reason. Farmers tend to be sicker, smaller, less well-fed than herders or hunter-gatherers, but they have larger populations, and can kill or drive off the others to take their land. Historically, that's what they did.

So Adam & Eve would represent all of those early "Mesolithic" HG cultures you implied, up until about 6000 BC and the dawn of Agriculture (= curse of Gen 3:19) and large urban cities (= Cain living in Nod and building the first city)

I don't know if I'd extend it that far, but it's an interesting idea.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Actually, that would be the story of Cain and Able. From herder to farmer. But the mention that farming is the consequence of that fall from grace when man went his own way, apart from God, does sound like farming isn't the way God intended things.

farming began at Genesis 3:19 = Adam

Cain versus Abel is the subsequent growing conflict between the new Neolithic farmers versus the conservative old ways hunter gatherers, with the former out populating the other

For example, the formerly "Fertile Crescent" of Mesopotamia. Some anthropologists argue that farming was a disaster for humanity. God seems to agree, given the way the story of Cain and Able plays out. And for good reason. Farmers tend to be sicker, smaller, less well-fed than herders or hunter-gatherers, but they have larger populations, and can kill or drive off the others to take their land. Historically, that's what they did.

I don't know if I'd extend it that far, but it's an interesting idea.

Bible remembers events that way also

 

[Erik Nelson]

What is LXX? I go by Bishop Ussher and his results are confirmed by Lightfoot. His book is a classic and still as valid today as the day his book was first published. Even if at the time they had no information on anything that took place before Adam and Eve the way we do today, 400 years after he wrote his book.

LXX is the older Greek Septuagint favored by the NT

 

[Theophilus2019]

“Science” is too broad a term in this context. Sciences such as archaeology certainly constantly prove Bible descriptions to be accurate. Sciences like chemistry and electronics are completely neutral. If you read New Scientist magazine, a leading popular British science publication, many of its articles support the Bible. If someone alleges “science” disproves Christianity, ask them to narrow it down to just what “science” they mean.

 

[nolidad]

Everyone likes arguing and fighting over beliefs when the bible gives room for science and science gives room for the bible.

That would be incorrect!

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

whether they knew or not- those who espouse the ages long evolutionary cosmology have joined the other side on the assault on the sovereignty of God!

 

[nolidad]

You are avoiding simple answers as much as possible. Not a good sign.

Do you believe that the Bible was 100% dictated or do you believe that human writers had a word in it?

Do you believe that the Bible is 100% preserved, so that no original word is lost?

It was God breathed- not dictated. God allowed every writer the use of language as long as it did not interfere with what He desired to say!

Well teh NT is preserved, as for the OT we have no reason (based on how the OT was copied by Israel) to think any was lost.

 

[eleos1954]

The thing about science is what is scientific fact changes year to year. The bible or any religion for that matter is a matter of faith not fact. But the thing is science also gives some basis to a higher power. If you look at mathematical percentages the match says most likely there is some form of creator you can call it god or aliens but something created us.
Scientist say the universe evolved over billions of years.
Christians think the universe formed in 6 to 7 thousand years

Look at the first two lines of Genesis

Genesis
1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It does not say when he created so it could have been over billions of years. He could of created the earth and dinosaurs and wiped them out to make room for humans.

Everyone likes arguing and fighting over beliefs when the bible gives room for science and science gives room for the bible.

Both science and creationists agree, the beginning was in the cosmos ... we need to get out of the zoo here on earth and into astrophysics and whats going on in the cosmos.

 

[nolidad]

Both science and creationists agree, the beginning was in the cosmos ... we need to get out of the zoo here on earth and into astrophysics and whats going on in the cosmos.

But the action of the universe is on earth. We need to care about what God has to say about us and our need to worship HIm on th is planet!

 

[eleos1954]

But the action of the universe is on earth. We need to care about what God has to say about us and our need to worship HIm on th is planet!

wasn't intended to in any way dismiss God nor our worship of Him ... was just saying that we argue and argue about creation and evolution in relation to this turned into that here on earth .... when ... both science and creationists agree, the beginning of all things started in the cosmos.

 

[Erik Nelson]

That would be incorrect!

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

whether they knew or not- those who espouse the ages long evolutionary cosmology have joined the other side on the assault on the sovereignty of God!

Just for sake of argument, how long is the Millennium then?

 

[joshua 1 9]

LXX is the older Greek Septuagint favored by the NT

I go by the Hebrew. Jesus was the only one that could add to what Moses gives us in the first five books of the Bible. Although they go a long way to explain what Moses tells us.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I go by the Hebrew.

Which Hebrew version? There are three classes of ancient Hebrew versions: the Masoretic Text, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Samaritan Pentateuch. Probably, there were probably multiple Hebrew versions in existence at the same time. For example, there were probably at least proto-Masoretic and proto-LXX Hebrew editions circulating at the same time.

Also, the LXX translators used a Hebrew version for their translation.

 

[Yekcidmij]

What is LXX? I go by Bishop Ussher and his results are confirmed by Lightfoot. His book is a classic and still as valid today as the day his book was first published. Even if at the time they had no information on anything that took place before Adam and Eve the way we do today, 400 years after he wrote his book.

One of Ussher's mistakes is that he used the chronology of the MT without considering the different chronologies in the Septuagint (LXX) and Samaritan Pentateuch (SP). Not to mention the non-canonical Jewish works that had even different chronologies, such as the book of Jubilees.

This leaves too many unanswered questions about he nature of biblical chronologies to take Ussher seriously.