Science vs. Christian

[Tone]

LOL it's a quote of what I said about someone... probably him..

Ohhh, so it's a link...I gotta check it out!

 

[Tone]

Ohhh, so it's a link...I gotta check it out!

Oh, it's actually above "JacksBratt", I missed it:

"Say what you will, but, I doubt you could last 5 minutes in a battle of the minds with Kent".

Who's Kent?

 

[JacksBratt]

Oh, it's actually above "JacksBratt", I missed it:

"Say what you will, but, I doubt you could last 5 minutes in a battle of the minds with Kent".

Who's Kent?

Oh, I know I couldn't. But, then again, I agree with what Kent says.... that's Kent Hovind by the way.

 

[Tone]

Oh, I know I couldn't. But, then again, I agree with what Kent says.... that's Kent Hovind by the way.

Ohhhh...okay...mystery solved...I'll have to check him out! Thanks!

 

[trophy33]

Oh, so now even the ages are not literal... What else then? Jesus walking on water? Angels speaking to Abraham and Lot? Moses standing in front of a dry sea bed?

Basically, what is witnessed by the writer, is probably "literal" (if its not clear that its not - like the book of Revelation).
The rest can be literal or can be metaphorical, symbolical or just a story to teach something. Depends on the content, background, style, writer etc.

Usually when people start talking about the validity of the OT, especially Genesis, and are using terms like "dramatical scene polemic with pagan creation stories"
They are down playing the solid integrity of these events as written.

Or, understanding the book, finally.

 

[trophy33]

Are you saying that these ideas are not atheistic? No matter who dreams them up, they are ideas that show anti biblical views and, in the end, no need for a God or creator.

Yes, these ideas are no more atheistic than the solar system, quantum mechanics or gravity is.

The fact that it does not match your understanding of some bible verses does not make them to be automatically "atheistic".

 

[JacksBratt]

Basically, what is witnessed by the writer, is probably "literal" (if its not clear that its not - like the book of Revelation).
The rest can be literal or can be metaphorical, symbolical or just a story to teach something. Depends on the content, background, style, writer etc.

If the bible was a news cast... or newspaper article... then ya.

However, the bible is God inspired and not the words of men. It is highly likely that much of the Torah was dictated by God to Moses. Just like the 10 commandments were written by the finger of God in stone, the Torah is not Moses ideas, interpretation or view.

If you have the view that the bible is just the events of God's people as it was recorded by some really good men.. then you will never understand the rock solid truth that it actually is.

The only thing that could be more obvious would have been if the Bible was given to someone, like Moses, by an Angel or God Himself. In the end...... It is God's Words.

Or, understanding the book, finally.

The bible is written so that a child can read it, comprehend it and understand the basic concepts of it, in order to grasp it's concepts and know the one who wrote it.. God.

At the same time, if you dig into it and start to analyze it, it has many many layers.

It is now being researched and studied with computer algorithms and the more that man finds out about it, the more it is realized to be impossible that it was written by men from all walks of life over a span of hundreds of years.... It has too many interlaced parts and common threads.. It had to be divinely orchestrated.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes, these ideas are no more atheistic than the solar system, quantum mechanics or gravity is.

The fact that it does not match your understanding of some bible verses does not make them to be automatically "atheistic".

I'm not sure what you are referencing here. Could you be more explicit?

I'm sure that you have gleaned through the many threads on this forum to understand that most of the concepts of the bible do not get into Quantum mechanics.. which is mostly theoretical mathematics anyway.

You must admit that it is not even close factual applicable things like the physics of an airfoil or applied chemistry....

 

[trophy33]

I'm not sure what you are referencing here. Could you be more explicit?

I'm sure that you have gleaned through the many threads on this forum to understand that most of the concepts of the bible do not get into Quantum mechanics.. which is mostly theoretical mathematics anyway.

You must admit that it is not even close factual applicable things like the physics of an airfoil or applied chemistry....

The point was that you cannot call something "atheistic" just because its not from the literal reading of the Bible.

 

[trophy33]

However, the bible is God inspired and not the words of men.

Wrong. If we do not believe in an automatic dictation, we believe that God inspired it, but the words are of men.

It is highly likely that much of the Torah was dictated by God to Moses.

Its not highly likely, you just wish it to be so.

If you have the view that the bible is just the events of God's people as it was recorded by some really good men.. then you will never understand the rock solid truth that it actually is.

No, I have a view that Bible is inspired theologically and men used their current language and knowledge to express these theological truths.

The bible is written so that a child can read it, comprehend it and understand the basic concepts of it

Yes. Bible is written in this child's style. Its not a scientific description of creation or anything similar. Because people writing it were not scientist and were like children regarding the knowledge about the universe.

So, use it in this way.

 

[JacksBratt]

Wrong. If we do not believe in an automatic dictation, we believe that God inspired it, but the words are of men.


Its not highly likely, you just wish it to be so.


No, I have a view that Bible is inspired theologically and men used their current language and knowledge to express these theological truths.


Yes. Bible is written in this child's style. Its not a scientific description of creation or anything similar. Because people writing it were not scientist and were like children regarding the knowledge about the universe.

So, use it in this way.

If a Child stated... "I slammed the door on the dog"... You would not assume that they ignored the dog and did not do what the dog wanted. Like you may if your boss "slammed the door on your idea".....

See what I mean. It was written so that a child can understand and comprehend it.. When it states that the universe was spoke into being, in six literal days, a child is not going to leap to a metaphorical assumption.

Also, when a child hears that Jesus is "the lamb of God", they still are able to comprehend that Jesus is not a sheep.

You and I have a totally different view of the scriptures and what they stand for. For me, if what some man tells me, whether at the front of a class or church or even in conversation, and it contradicts the biblical scripture... I'm going with scripture....

Hasn't let me down yet.

 

[trophy33]

Also, when a child hears that Jesus is "the lamb of God", they still are able to comprehend that Jesus is not a sheep.

And now imagine the absurdity of a situation that after 1900 years, some group of Christians would begin to spread claims that its literal and scientific and would create websites and youtube videos where they would collect "proofs" that Jesus had DNA of a sheep or similar nonsense.

The YEC movement is doing exactly that.

 

[JacksBratt]

And now imagine the absurdity of a situation that after 1900 years, some group of Christians would begin to spread claims that its literal and scientific and would create websites and youtube videos where they would collect "proofs" that Jesus had DNA of a sheep or similar nonsense.

The YEC movement is doing exactly that.

Really.... well that' sounds legit.....as the saying goes.

Sorry "myst33" But, I am going to have to leave you to your common sense. I l know it's not that common anymore, but life is life.

Like I said. If you cannot distinguish between "there was evening and there was morning, the first, second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth days".... and "Jesus is the door"......Then you are probably going to have trouble with "Jesus has Sheep DNA and other things like "This statue is bleeding" or "I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell".

Again, the Bible is simple enough for a child to read and understand. It is also so intricate that it's layers of information and wonder will never be fully understood.

It is the word of our creator, who spoke the entire universe into existence... I would expect nothing less from Him.

 

[trophy33]

Really.... well that' sounds legit.....as the saying goes.

Sorry "myst33" But, I am going to have to leave you to your common sense. I l know it's not that common anymore, but life is life.

Like I said. If you cannot distinguish between "there was evening and there was morning, the first, second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth days".... and "Jesus is the door"......Then you are probably going to have trouble with "Jesus has Sheep DNA and other things like "This statue is bleeding" or "I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell".

Again, the Bible is simple enough for a child to read and understand. It is also so intricate that it's layers of information and wonder will never be fully understood.

It is the word of our creator, who spoke the entire universe into existence... I would expect nothing less from Him.

The theological truths really are simple, for a child to understand - God is the creator, there is only one God, Christ, death, resurrection, sins, forgiveness, love your neighbor, do not cheat, do not lie, do not murder etc.

But in the 19th century Seventh Day Adventists began to spread conflicts and complications regarding Genesis, flood etc., saying that we must read it literally and scientifically, which produced unending arguments with science and put many Christians into a serious dilemma. From the USA it spread into other English speaking countries and from there to the rest of the world.

 

[JacksBratt]

The theological truths really are simple, for a child to understand - God is the creator, there is only one God, Christ, death, resurrection, sins, forgiveness, love your neighbor, do not cheat, do not lie, do not murder etc.

And... six days of creation, global flood, tower of Babel, Jericho, Christ walking on water, death and resurrection.. and many more truths.

But in the 19th century Seventh Day Adventists began to spread conflicts and complications regarding Genesis, flood etc., saying that we must read it literally and scientifically, which produced unending arguments with science and put many Christians into a serious dilemma. From the USA it spread into other English speaking countries and from there to the rest of the world.

I don't think we can blame the Seventh Day Adventists for reading it literally. Christ, Himself, talked of these scriptures as they were real events.

Again, I will not put the words of men over the word of God and, to me, it is quite apparent that Jesus is the door.. just not a real door... and He created the universe in six literal 24 hour days.

 

[trophy33]

Again, I will not put the words of men over the word of God and, to me, it is quite apparent that Jesus is the door.. just not a real door... and He created the universe in six literal 24 hour days.

You are putting the words of men over the word of God right there - Genesis knows nothing about 24 hour days.

 

[JacksBratt]

You are putting the words of men over the word of God right there - Genesis knows nothing about 24 hour days.

How long do you think it took for the earth to rotate once, back in the beginning? Were days longer, shorter.. Oh, maybe that's why they lived so long, the days were real short...

All kidding aside, you believe what you do.. that's you.

I believe as I do.. that's me...

As Christians, one day we will sit down with our savior and He will go over our beliefs and the "why's" of our beliefs. I'm fine and I bet you are too... so... God Bless.

 

[trophy33]

How long do you think it took for the earth to rotate once, back in the beginning?

Genesis knows nothing about the rotation of Earth.

The description in Genesis is not scientific, but ancient.

 

[JacksBratt]

Genesis knows nothing about the rotation of Earth.

The description in Genesis is not scientific, but ancient.

Oh my goodness. It matters not if the people knew about the rotation of the earth... it's a fact. So, when God said "there was evening, there was morning, the first day, second day, third day," unless the earth slowed down or sped up since then, it was a 24 hour day.

It's not as ancient as one may believe.

 

[trophy33]

Oh my goodness. It matters not if the people knew about the rotation of the earth...

It does, because they were not describing our scientific 1 rotation days.

So, when God said "there was evening, there was morning, the first day, second day, third day,"

God did not say "there was evening, there was morning etc." Its a commentary of the writer.

unless the earth slowed down or sped up since then, it was a 24 hour day.

Or billions of years or just a symbolic separation of different creation frames.