The Pastor King (New)

[ace of hearts]

I read everything. It just doesn't matter because you're seeing things in Scripture that just aren't there. There's nothing anyone can do about that. You don't understand how a leader in the Church has to have authority in order to serve in the role of shepherd (pastor). They have to strike the wolves when they come after the sheep, and the sheep need to be fed the from the True Gospel, rather than someone's false gospel. There needs to be order so their needs to be a hierarchy. Hierarchy is taught in Scripture, period. The Sacrament of Holy Orders is taught in Scripture, period.

In more than one assembly I've attended, I've been ostracized for simply speaking truth. It was taken as an effort to overthrow a person in power. Yes the truth does threaten many people of power.

 

[LoveofTruth]

When I think about it, I was seduced for many years because of my lack of understanding. Deliverance was a long process for me because of physical conditions more like peer pressure than anything else. I had problem with what was being enforced by things such as that's is the way it's always been that can't be supported with anything but air.

Yes, I was in such places for many years as well a long time ago about 20 years ago. One time I was in a place and the so called "pastor" would listen to my understanding in these things and simply cross his arms and look perplexed. I mentioned one time I would like to share something with the body and he said to me that whatever I had to say would be said by someone in the leadership role. He basically said I have no need of you. He was in error.

A few times I wanted to speak to the entire assembly about some things yet there was no freedom to do so. I asked for a copy of their man made by laws, their constitution. It is full of man mad commandments and rudiments of the world. i made a few page letter about it and called it Constitution confusion. i quoted where it made the one man pastor the only ministry under the ministry section and how it set him up as supreme in authority over all and no one could speak or minister unless he gave approval etc. I quoted many other things from the man made constitution. Then I gave it out to the leadershio and they ignored me for a while, so I then gave it out to the other believers. The so called Pastor there one day in a bible study lifted up my letter and criticized it and did not even read it to the body. I was very gracious in it and yet he still attacked it.

 

[ace of hearts]

I love studying and searching the scriptures and reading books. I am the proverbial bookworm. I have over 1,000 books in my personal library and nearly every week I download a book onto my E reader.

About 10 years ago, I embarked on a 2 year study of the New Testament Church which involved reading about 60 books on the subject and looking at the scriptures in the original Greek.

When I had finished and written it all up, I had material sufficient for a PhD. I went about looking at various bible colleges to submit my work to and in the middle of it all I heard the Lord say "No, it will only draw attention to yourself."

So my PhD is in name only not in fact.

I do realise however that many so called pastors haven't a clue about the truth of scripture. I have fallen foul of some because I have said to them that the spin they put on it is not what the scripture means.

Last year I was thrown out of a church because I asked the preacher a question. Apparently, the leadership is infallible (and it is not Catholic) so no one is allowed to ask questions. What they say is gospel truth, even when it is not.

It is not uncommon for some members of the congregation to be more educated and learned than the pastor so they have to sit and listen each week to some trite commentary on the scriptures that is totally irrelevant and wrong.

If a pastor cannot get people filled with the Holy Spirit and fulfilling their role in the gifts and he can't give them solid meat from the Word, then he would do everyone a favour if he resigned.

One thing that has not been mentioned and which I know is the truth as research has shown this, Derek Prince reckoned 50% of pastors should never be pastors as the only reason they are is because they are coping with rejection and the public aspect of the ministry gives them some semblance of notoriety and recognition.

My wife and I used to attend a church that had a big ministry to those with rejection so we learned all the symptoms.

When we moved to the country we live in now, we would go to a church service and when we came out at the end we would look at each other and say "rejection" as it was plain for us to see it in the preacher.

Apparently, I am told by the people that have done the research that there are over 10,000 ex-ministers who have gone back into a secular profession.

They claim burnout or unrealistic expectations of them which may well be right but I add that they should never have gone into the ministry because they did so as a result of their rejection.

This could very well be my testimony except I'm still not married. Yes I remain true to good morals in compliance with Scripture, not to restrain my freedom. I don't promote sin as some law people here try to impose on me.

 

[truefiction1]

You're promoting religion rather than a relationship with God and Jesus Christ.

My Lord, Jesus Christ, promoted religion as well as practicing it Himself, having created man to be a religious being by nature. Why do so many conceive the notion that one cannot both be in Communion with God while also practicing religious rituals and ceremonious gatherings?

 

[truefiction1]

There's no denial that some from your church have suffered wrongly for their beliefs. My question is did they suffer because of Jesus or affiliation with your church. You make it more because of their affiliation with your church than a relationship with Jesus. Indeed many have suffered from various organizations even by them for the cause of Jesus Christ.

They suffered because they confessed Christ to be the Lord, with their mouths, and because they believed in their hearts that He is risen from the dead. For this, they are with the Lord now.

 

[ace of hearts]

What is evasive is that you are unable to accept His command, so you evade it by presenting it as something that it is not. What this actually means is that you don't really believe in Him, because if you did you would believe what He says about this and you would have faith that it's true, and you would obey. I can see by what you say and do that you aren't a follower of my Lord. So, I don't care to discuss His mysteries with His enemies. Good day.

Another religious group I talk with says the very same thing.

 

[LoveofTruth]

My Lord, Jesus Christ, promoted religion as well as practicing it Himself, having created man to be a religious being by nature. Why do so many conceive the notion that one cannot both be in Communion with God while also practicing religious rituals and ceremonious gatherings?

John 4:23, 24 “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”

 

[ace of hearts]

My Lord and your lord are not the same person. I'll do what my Lord says.

I think we just might be in agreement on this.

 

[truefiction1]

John 4:23, 24 “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”

My Lord said this, but this isn't all that He said. He says many great things and we mustn't pay attention only to this while forgetting about and ignoring all of the other things he taught and did. Do we want to possess all of our Lord, or only a small part of Him? Should we have a fullness of faith, or one that is lacking in various ways?

 

[ace of hearts]

No. Your religion is the product of your prelest. The rites practiced in the Church were instituted by Christ and established by the Apostles. The fact that their are many "long robe wearing hypocrites" milling about in the Church does nothing to effect a rejection of the Apostolic Way, no matter what you think. Sorry.

Ah very good and smooth. I don't think there is any prelest being practiced in response to you. Jesus didn't institute the rites of your church. Jesus did institute what we call the Lord's Supper.

 

[ace of hearts]

Note that you made no mention of the role of the Holy Spirit in any way here. I noticed it right off. This is the characteristic of those who are afflicted with "pride of intellect". To such, their thoughts alone are enough to save them, so all they need are the right words and proper understandings of the words. The need for the intercession of the Holy Spirit is forgotten about.

This is Prelest of the most awful sort. A miracle is needed to save them who become afflicted with this most foul of spiritual diseases. I am honestly hoping that you are not truly afflicted in this way so that you still learn from God about His Divine Mysteries.

Times changed, and the conditions under which the Christians live and worship have changed many times throughout the 2000 plus years since Christ established His Church. It's still the same Church. It had sinners in it causing various problems from the beginning, all throughout, and even now. There were always hypocrites practicing religion alongside those who were not hypocrites. A long robe doesn't make a person a hypocrite. Hypocrisy is in the heart.

This that I will now say is important: If hypocrisy subtly exists in our own hearts (i.e. the passion of vainglory), we will refuse to be aware of its existence in ourselves and project it onto other people whose appearance give us justification for doing so. My Lord has a saying: "Judge not, lest you be judged" (Matthew 7:2) because He knows that all such judgment springs from a heart full of evil.

If we automatically condemn a person for their appearance, it's only by the evil within our own hearts that we don't own up to. The Orthodox faith is the practice of spiritual warfare. You fight the passions in your heart and the demons bringing evil thoughts with all the weapons and protections God has given. The Holy Spirit intervenes and rewards with victory and the heart is purified. The log of passions thus being removed from your own spiritual eye, you see clearly, with Love, and can remove the splinter in your brother's eye. If you judge, you are not seeing things as they really are: you are only seeing things as you are, in your heart. I have to say this because of your "blanket" condemnation of all Christians wearing long robes. It's obvious that something is amiss in this recurring concern of yours. This is like if I refuse to wear a robe and then point at people who do and say, "see, I'm righteous because I listen to the word of God and don't go about in long robes to be seen in the marketplace to be someone special! O, how superior my spiritual qualities are to those proud hypocrites in those fancy religious garments! They are children of their father, the devil, like the Pharisees before them,while I, on the other hand, know how to live according to the law spoken by Jesus. I thank Thee, O Lord, that I am not like those Pharisees... those vain hypocrites... but I read and listen to your words and do not do the things that they do."

The Orthodox say instead... Lord, have mercy on me, the most wretched and useless of all Your servants. They are able to say this and really believe it because of the grace of the Holy Spirit, Who fills them with True humility.

Some of us understand the spiritual warfare taking place here. From your posts we recognize you promote religion. That's only a different flavor than I'm used to engaging.

 

[ace of hearts]

I have to agree with @truefiction1. You're needlessly judging 500+ million Christians based on externalities like vestments and church order.

I personally disagree. Christians haven't been attacked. Religious practices are being discussed. Yeah I understand the need to protect the status quo if you will.

 

[ace of hearts]

You're formerly Roman Catholic. That doesn't make you an expert on all things sacramental or liturgical. You're just rehashing tired polemics to somebody that belongs to a church that has centuries more experience than you do knowing about spiritual things.

It does allow one to recognize what is transpiring.

 

[FireDragon76]

My Lord, Jesus Christ, promoted religion as well as practicing it Himself, having created man to be a religious being by nature. Why do so many conceive the notion that one cannot both be in Communion with God while also practicing religious rituals and ceremonious gatherings?

It's obvious they believe in a different kind of religion, and the relationship stuff is merely rhetoric they use to attack liturgical churches. As you point out, it's a false dichotomy.

Instead of worrying about their own salvation, they are attacking other peoples churches. As C.S. Lewis discusses in the addendum to Screwtape, that is not at all a good way to be a Christian, as it is the very brew of Hell.

 

[ace of hearts]

double post

 

[ace of hearts]

It's obvious they believe in a different kind of religion, and the relationship stuff is merely rhetoric they use to attack liturgical churches. As you point out, it's a false dichotomy.

Instead of worrying about their own salvation, they are attacking other peoples churches. As C.S. Lewis discusses in the addendum to Screwtape, that is not at all a good way to be a Christian, as it is the very brew of Hell.

So you really think our purpose here is to attack another persons religion. The only people I know of using this ploy is those promoting something other than Jesus Christ the righteous. Just look at who is presenting Scripture and who is using everything else. I asked for references from Scripture and get no response with Scripture. Some here are defending religion a method claimed to serving God. That could be taken as having a relationship with God. I think it's more an attempt to appease God by works and form. We can't appease (buy) God. I think that LoveofTruth is promoting what the Scripture says. The response he gets is religious non scriptural material.

 

[truefiction1]

Ah very good and smooth. I don't think there is any prelest being practiced in response to you. Jesus didn't institute the rites of your church. Jesus did institute what we call the Lord's Supper.

Jesus is God, and God instituted Holy Matrimony (marriage between a male and female human being), Holy Orders (i.e. giving certain men to have authority within His Church, Holy Communion (i.e. the eating and drinking of bread and wine, which is His body and His blood), Holy Baptism (the ritual performed to initiate us into the new Life in Christ, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), Holy Unction (the anointing of the sick with holy oil, along with prayers - see James 5:14), ... and all other such things as are done in His Church.

Did you ever hear of Jesus personally presiding over a marriage ceremony in the Bible? I haven't, yet I know that Marriage and the sacred ceremony performed in the Church to formally join together a man and wife are in accordance with God's will (God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). So do you, don't you?

 

[truefiction1]

So you really think our purpose here is to attack another persons religion. The only people I know of using this ploy is those promoting something other than Jesus Christ the righteous. Just look at who is presenting Scripture and who is using everything else. I asked for references from Scripture and get no response with Scripture. Some here are defending religion a method claimed to serving God. That could be taken as having a relationship with God. I think it's more an attempt to appease God by works and form. We can't appease (buy) God. I think that LoveofGod is promoting what the Scripture says. The response he gets is religious non scriptural material.

See my post #448, then look at Romans 10:9-10 and compare. Most of what I write here is Scriptural, even if I don't take the time to place quotations around it and reference books, chapters & verses. If you know and understand the Scriptures, you'll recognize my points as being Scriptural. If you don't want to accept that I'm a true follower of Christ because I observe the religious practices of the Orthodox Christian Church, then you'll mostly just make false assumptions about the nature of my faith and spiritual being. This is due to the designs of the enemies of the Church, who are the enemies of God and the Lord Jesus Christ (see Ephesians 6:12).

 

[ace of hearts]

Jesus is God, and God instituted Holy Matrimony (marriage between a male and female human being), Holy Orders (i.e. giving certain men to have authority within His Church, Holy Communion (i.e. the eating and drinking of bread and wine, which is His body and His blood), Holy Baptism (the ritual performed to initiate us into the new Life in Christ, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), Holy Unction (the anointing of the sick with holy oil, along with prayers - see James 5:14), ... and all other such things as are done in His Church.

Did you ever hear of Jesus personally presiding over a marriage ceremony in the Bible? I haven't, yet I know that Marriage and the sacred ceremony performed in the Church to formally join together a man and wife are in accordance with God's will (God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). So do you, don't you?

There's much more than the common rites practiced in most churches.

 

[ace of hearts]

See my post #448, then look at Romans 10:9-10 and compare. Most of what I write here is Scriptural, even if I don't take the time to place quotations around it and reference books, chapters & verses. If you know and understand the Scriptures, you'll recognize my points as being Scriptural. If you don't want to accept that I'm a true follower of Christ because I observe the religious practices of the Orthodox Christian Church, then you'll mostly just make false assumptions about the nature of my faith and spiritual being. This is due to the designs of the enemies of the Church, who are the enemies of God and the Lord Jesus Christ (see Ephesians 6:12).

I don't doubt your sincerity. I don't doubt your claim being a Christian. What does get me is your religious practice and claims behind it. You can claim I'm your enemy all you want. If that claim is based on the fact I'm not involved in your religion, you're incorrect. I see icons as idols.