The Pastor King (New)

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I don't doubt your sincerity. I don't doubt your claim being a Christian. What does get me is your religious practice and claims behind it. You can claim I'm your enemy all you want. If that claim is based on the fact I'm not involved in your religion, you're incorrect. I see icons as idols.
Well, they're not idols because we worship the Holy Trinity in spirit and in Truth, and neither are saints who are venerated and whose prayerful intercessions asked for idols, for the same reason stated above. I don't particularly care if you venerate icons or ask prayers of saints, so long as you repent of all sins, whether in word, deed, or thought, and strive to keep that religion that is pure and holy before God, which is to "take care of widows and orphans in their distress".

Whether you're an enemy or not I don't know. What I do know, is that your spiritual perception (sight) and knowledge of the True God is not quite the same as mine. Iconoclasm is one fruit of such perception as yours. One fruit of our perceptions is the ability to live as taught by the Lord (see Matthew 25:31-46), and to not be quick to believe that the True God is offended by our having portraits of His children (our brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers in Christ) hanging about our homes and Churches, whom we bow to and kiss in humility and Love, or to otherwise believe our Good God is offended by our humbly asking prayers of his holy saints, because we know we are sinners needing God's grace. There is a vast difference between what we do and what idolaters do.
 
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ace of hearts

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Well, they're not idols because we worship the Holy Trinity in spirit and in Truth, and neither are saints who are venerated and whose prayerful intercessions asked for idols, for the same reason stated above. I don't particularly care if you venerate icons or ask prayers of saints, so long as you repent of all sins, whether in word, deed, or thought, and strive to keep that religion that is pure and holy before God, which is to "take care of widows and orphans in their distress".

Whether you're an enemy or not I don't know. What I do know, is that your spiritual perception (sight) and knowledge of the True God is not quite the same as mine. Iconoclasm is one fruit of such perception as yours. One fruit of our perceptions is the ability to live as taught by the Lord (see Matthew 25:31-46), and to not be quick to believe that the True God is offended by our having portraits of His children (our brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers in Christ) hanging about our homes and Churches, whom we bow to and kiss in humility and Love, or to otherwise believe our Good God is offended by our humbly asking prayers of his holy saints, because we know we are sinners needing God's grace. There is a vast difference between what we do and what idolaters do.
Nice of you to include Jesus and God in your religious practices.
 
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ace of hearts

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You misunderstand what I mean

We don’t know Christ after the flesh now and to say there he is or there he is on that altar is not scriptural.

Matthew 24 - 23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.”

2 Corinthians 5 - 16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”

And

Hebrews 10 - 12. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;”


1 Corinthians 1 - 13. Is Christ divided?...”
To just the statement of is Christ divided I'd say no. I'd also say many have divided Jesus from salvation. That certainly can't be done. JN 10:9 I am the door implies exclusive, not additionally. JN 14:6 is another claim by Jesus granting exclusive access to our Father.
 
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ace of hearts

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Well, no kidding? God dwells in my heart by faith and obedience (John 14:23), this is how I know that I eat His flesh and drink His blood (John 14:21) as bread and wine. I wouldn't teach that the bread and wine of the Orthodox Eucharist is indeed the body and blood of Christ if this had not been revealed to me by God the Holy Spirit. You are confused about what we do in Communion. You think that we believe that God is confined in the bread and wine. Not so, the exulted Christ is boundless, everywhere present, and fills all things. We do not worship bread and wine. We worship God Who is inconceivable and incomprehensible. God is inconceivably and incomprehensibly present in the bread and wine of Communion. This is what the Christ teaches in His Gospel. "This is a profound MYSTERY" (Ephesians 5:32). Yet you call it idolatry. It is the work of the Holy Spirit. Yet you are calling it evil. Beware of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
I don't think a claim has been made that Jesus is confined to the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper.
 
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ace of hearts

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I have been freed from the harlot for a long time now almost 30 years and I am fully aware of such and the many daughters she has.

I do not go by the so called "church fathers" or man made traditions, but in the Spirit and with scripture and the body ministry.
Me too, just not as long. It's absolutely wonderful!!!
 
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ace of hearts

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It is you who is so literal that you can't accept Jesus' saying about his flesh and blood as true. If you can't define it with literal abstract concepts, it therefor cannot be true to you. You're rejecting a God Whom your mind cannot comprehend, because you have allowed your own mind, or intellect, to become your god. This is prelest, and it is the absolute worst form of it, from which hardly anyone ever recovers because it's impossible for such a one to ever be convinced that their mind (their god) can fail to define anything at all -- even God. Rightly does the prophet Isaiah speak to this condition (Isaiah 5:21).

FYI, Jesus "really is" the Lamb, slain before the foundation of the world. The Bible says He is the Lamb of God, so this is exactly what He is. In the Kingdom of Heaven He is all of these things which are said of Him - REALLY, not figuratively. You can't see it because of this: (John 9:41)
I don't think there's any prelest going on by LoveofTruth.
 
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ace of hearts

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No. Christ's Apostles all knew that Christ is present in the bread and wine of Communion. They passed this Holy Mystery throughout the Church from the beginning until now. Paul wrote that the bread really is His body and the cup really is His blood, warning all to never profane it by not discerning the body and blood in Communion. The Holy Spirit revealed the Truth of this profound mystery to me personally as I was Communing, so that I know that I'm in no danger by denouncing any teaching that denies this Truth. This is my testimony before God and before all.

You know, I think you might truly benefit from doing some serious reading about prelest.
I've investigated your word prelest and its concept. I disagree that is what LoveofTurth is guilty of.
 
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I've investigated your word prelest and its concept. I disagree that is what LoveofTurth is guilty of.
Maybe not. Things written in forum settings often lead us to have misconceptions about one another. But pride (self-esteem) is so firmly enmeshed within our very being that even if we aren't aware of its presence in us, and are certain that its not influencing us in our thoughts, feelings, and perceptions, it still is. Our imperceptible enemies use it to cause us to form wrong judgments about things. That's all. In the spiritual life, pride leads to prelest, so if we have any evil pride, we also have some level of prelest that we're afflicted with.
 
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Nice of you to include Jesus and God in your religious practices.
God, the Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit are not "Included" in my religious practices: They are (i.e. fullness of Communion with Them) the goal of and reason for all religious practices.
 
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ace of hearts

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Maybe not. Things written in forum settings often lead us to have misconceptions about one another. But pride (self-esteem) is so firmly enmeshed within our very being that even if we aren't aware of its presence in us, and are certain that its not influencing us in our thoughts, feelings, and perceptions, it still is. Our imperceptible enemies use it to cause us to form wrong judgments about things. That's all. In the spiritual life, pride leads to prelest, so if we have any evil pride, we also have some level of prelest that we're afflicted with.
If you say so. I've no idea why you're going in this direction.
 
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ace of hearts

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That's not what the real presence means.
I think I understand what you claim to be the real presence. For me the real presence is Jesus in me. Yes I've been exposed to the doctrine of real presence thru my job as a chaplain asst in the Army.
 
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ace of hearts

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God, the Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit are not "Included" in my religious practices: They are (i.e. fullness of Communion with Them) the goal of and reason for all religious practices.
Didn't say they weren't.
 
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ace of hearts

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The statement was a direct response to yours. That is why I went in this direction.
You said prelest to which I responded. Now you bring in pride which I made no mention of. So I'm asking why?
 
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ace of hearts

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God cannot be known by thinking about God. God can be known only be known by the mysterious encounter of our own spirit with His Holy Spirit. But the "hard sayings" (Holy Mysteries) he speaks of are to be taken at His word as "really True", and to be believed on by faith that He is the Son of God and has the words of Eternal Life. He said "My flesh is meat indeed" and "My blood is drink indeed". It was a "hard saying" and many stopped following Him because of this saying. He asked His disciples "Are you not also going to leave?" They answered "Lord, where else would we go? You have the words of Eternal Life." Is it so hard to just believe Who has the words of Eternal Life that some try to alter His words? Apparently so. I will believe His words just as He spoke them, because He is truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and all of His sayings are the Truth -- really.
You're promoting religious teaching over the truth of the Scripture.
 
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ace of hearts

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It is you who is so literal that you can't accept Jesus' saying about his flesh and blood as true. If you can't define it with literal abstract concepts, it therefor cannot be true to you. You're rejecting a God Whom your mind cannot comprehend, because you have allowed your own mind, or intellect, to become your god. This is prelest, and it is the absolute worst form of it, from which hardly anyone ever recovers because it's impossible for such a one to ever be convinced that their mind (their god) can fail to define anything at all -- even God. Rightly does the prophet Isaiah speak to this condition (Isaiah 5:21).

FYI, Jesus "really is" the Lamb, slain before the foundation of the world. The Bible says He is the Lamb of God, so this is exactly what He is. In the Kingdom of Heaven He is all of these things which are said of Him - REALLY, not figuratively. You can't see it because of this: (John 9:41)
Only for those who think in carnal terms.
 
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ace of hearts

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Read the above article I quoted and consider some aspects of it. I know its a bit long. But that is just a small section from it.
Given the response you got, I'd like to know the source of the quote. Is it Catholic or something else?
 
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ace of hearts

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No, there just uniforms (i.e. one form of clothing worn by all of a particular profession for the sake of those who may need to call upon them for important human services -- for ease of identification). If you need a policeman, you go fetch the guy in the policeman's outfit... A soldier, the one in the soldier's clothes... a physician, the one's wearing the surgical scrubs... etc. If you need to be anointed and prayed over by an elder of the Church, you summon the guy in the long black robe. To you they have become a means by which you judge others to be exulting themselves into "worldly styled false" authority over others in the Church.
Sorry but that's not how I recognize a man of the cloth (religious leader). I know them by association.
 
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You're promoting religious teaching over the truth of the Scripture.
No, I'm promoting experiencing Communion with God, in the Holy Spirit, over mere cognitive knowledge about God that comes from reading about and thinking about God, rather than from pure prayer of the heart.
 
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