CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

[LoveGodsWord]

By the working of the Holy Spirit to convict of sins, and to open up minds and hearts when the Gospel is preached, as we preach the Gospel, not the law!

What is sin and how do we receive a KNOWLEDGE of sin?

OP QUESTIONS

.............

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Our knowledge of good and evil is a result of being made in the image of God. Even in those who have never been exposed to the Decalogue there is natural knowledge of good and that which is not good. The law sets God's standards before man and provides proof positive that without the Grace of God there can be no salvation. It also serves as the foundation for the nation that God was building. The Grace of God allows man to grow in righteousness and progress towards the full potential that he was intended to have when he was created by God.

Salvation from what?

OP QUESTIONS

.............

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So would you then say that God did not give any grace prior to the book of Exodus? How can that be?

God's GRACE was given in the Garden of Even.

OP QUESTIONS

.............

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

God bless.

 

[SkyWriting]

What you think is right is sin? So every time you DO WHAT IS RIGHT, that is sin !?

Rather, yes, what you think is right IS sin. Yes, I agree, as does all Scripture,
likewise Yahweh and Jesus.

Thank you.

Or did you mean that sin is what you think is NOT right between you and God ?

If you agree with Jesus, this is truth as written in Scripture - Jesus says any transgression of TORAH is sin. If you agree with Jesus, and with God's Word, then you also say any transgression of TORAH is sin.

Transgression of TORAH is sin, and is what is NOT right between you and God. That is correct.

If you would just read and believe, then a typo would not give you logic spasms.
I will pre-twist my words to help you out.

New International Version
If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.

New Living Translation
Remember, it is sin to know what you ought to do and then not do it.

English Standard Version
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore, whoever knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore to the one knowing to do good, and not doing, it is sin.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

King James Bible
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Christian Standard Bible
So it is sin to know the good and yet not do it.

 

[SkyWriting]

The Scripture, all Scripture, EVEN what you post! Speaks against you.
The Scripture, all Scripture, what everyone posts, speaks against you.
Yahweh never said what you claim, yet Scripture, which you are opposed to ,

in your posts you keep putting up a 'front' as if "the form of religion" , but still by your own words denying the truth, denying the power (of Jesus to save, in line with Scripture).

IF it was as you say, which is clearly opposed to Scripure, was true, then JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE HAD TO DIE - thus denying the GOSPEL by your posts and beliefs.

Whenever anyone posted Scripture, exposing your errors and the sinfulness of sin the WAY JESUS SAYS,
you denied it.

What good will ANY SCRIPTURE do then, when the eyes cannot see, and the heart is stone ?
We pray hopefully, expectantly, joyously, not for the sin, but for a new heart and a clean heart, for a right spirit, rightly understanding Yahweh's Word. (that only a new heart and a new mind can even grasp - the old sinful nature rejects Jesus, rejects truth, does not even seek the truth, nor repent of sin) .

Yahweh wants the sin to stop, not the thoughts to accept the abominations that are sin as if they are not sin. He Calls them Abominations on PURPOSE, TRUTHFULLY, in HIS WORD, and in HIS PLAN for SALVATION> Abominations that must be STOPPED< repented of, and atoned for.

Without the BLOOD OF JESUS there is no atonement. Without repentance, their is no sacrifice for the sin. Thus no salvation without repentance.

Again, the sermon of the natural man and no scripture to back anything.
You don't need to use my methods, but a passage or two would help.
You seem fixed on this so:

English Standard Version
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Berean Study Bible
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Berean Literal Bible
In saying, "new," He has made obsolete the first; and that which is growing old and aging is near vanishing.

New American Standard Bible
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

King James Bible
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Christian Standard Bible
By saying a new covenant, he has declared that the first is obsolete. And what is obsolete and growing old is about to pass away.

Contemporary English Version
When the Lord talks about a new agreement, he means that the first one is out of date. And anything that is old and useless will soon disappear.

Acts 15
10 Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
11 On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

English Standard Version
But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

Berean Study Bible
On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Berean Literal Bible
But we believe ourselves to be saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same manner asthey also are."

New American Standard Bible
"But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."

King James Bible
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Christian Standard Bible
On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way they are."

Contemporary English Version
But we believe that we will be saved by the gift of undeserved grace from our Lord Jesus Christ, just as the Gentiles are.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I place no special meaning on those words. All of Paul is suspect as Chief of all sinners. Like I said, no haloes.

He was chosen by Jesus as An Apostle, so his books are inspired by God, as was his theology!

 

[YeshuaFan]

The admitted Chief of Sinners? He never even met Jesus. He seems to have a hard time applying what had learned into action. Never meeting Jesus, that makes sense.

He met the risen Jesus, and was taught his theology by Jesus, and commissioned by Jesus!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Not all 10 of them but surely we must obey all His commandments right?


Not true they were commandments of God not of man.

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

We must believe in Jesus as messiah to be saved!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I will pre-twist my words to help you out.

We are praying when God permits, for you. You abandoned church, as you said, and went out on your own, away from sound doctrine, contrary to Biblical teaching, on the broad road to destruction.
In the Bible, when someone REPENTED to be FORGIVEN, they did not "DECIDE" that their sin is no longer sin because they "thought it is not sin", no.
They stopped sinning, turned away from their sin (which you need to do, as in your posts you said you just "think it's not sin" , INSTEAD of stopping from sinning, and you go on your way , away from God, DOING not HIS WORD, but your own selfishness in sin mocking Him.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I stopped attending sermons years ago.


Scripture research has taught me much since I was a legalist conservative in the past few decades. I am now a clear leftist progressive as scripture requires of me.


Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

Luke 6:32-42
“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

Just as long as you uphold biblical morality, and that Jesus is Lord, and only way to get saved!

 

[SkyWriting]

Just as long as you uphold biblical morality, and that Jesus is Lord, and only way to get saved!

I include your sermons as an archetype.
Biblical morality is specifically called out embodied in the Old Testament laws. Sorry:

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

2 Corinthians 3:6
And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Hebrews 1:11
They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

Hebrews 7:22
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 12:24
to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You don't need to use my methods, but a passage or two would help.

Apparently, humanly, nothing has helped.
"A passage" or two - you've , in your posts, apparently rejected every passage and twisted it to your liking.
Maybe you are realizing what sin is - it is doing what is wrong. NOT thinking it is wrong.
So making your thoughts as if "it's not wrong because I don't think it is wrong"
is further abomination, leading to condemnation because of unbelief (not believing the truth; not trusting the FATHER in HEAVEN is RIGHT).

For forgiveness, seek the Father in Heaven, turn AWAY FROM SIN (STOP SINNING),
and seek the Kingdom of Yahweh (God Almighty Sovereign).

IF you actually knew Scripture , as written, every sentence in my posts you would recognize as true and in harmony with Scripture - many almost direct quotes from Scripture. But without knowing Scripture, you want "references" to argue against, not to believe, apparently (obviously?).

We hope not, for your sake. We pray the God of Salvation might open your eyes, even grant you a heart of flesh, new, with the eyes of your heart open to Jesus, to His Way,
to be recovered unto Him, saved from sin (and from death).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just as long as you uphold biblical morality, and that Jesus is Lord, and only way to get saved!

His posts show he is immoral, rejecting Scripture, accepting living in sin as "okay" as long as "he thinks" it is okay, regardless of what God Says. Instead of "THY WILL OF GOD",
instead of Jesus is Lord, he posted "I can sin as long as I don't think it is sin" effectively, thus he is his own lord, instead of submitting to Jesus as Lord.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I include your sermons as an archetype.
Biblical morality is specifically called out embodied in the Old Testament laws. Sorry:

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

2 Corinthians 3:6
And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Hebrews 1:11
They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

Hebrews 7:22
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 8:8
But God found fault with the people and said: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 12:24
to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Do you uphold sexual morality, marriage covenant, no abortion etc then?

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you uphold sexual morality, marriage covenant, no abortion etc then?

When you grasp that OT laws are obsolete, then under the Grace of the Blood of Jesus, those questions become mute under the New Covenant.

 

[SkyWriting]

His posts show he is immoral, rejecting Scripture, accepting living in sin as "okay" as long as "he thinks" it is okay, regardless of what God Says. Instead of "THY WILL OF GOD",
instead of Jesus is Lord, he posted "I can sin as long as I don't think it is sin" effectively, thus he is his own lord, instead of submitting to Jesus as Lord.

After you grasp that OT laws are obsolete, then under the Grace of the Blood of Jesus, those questions become mute under the New Covenant. You should study the current covenant more.

 

[YeshuaFan]

When you grasp that OT laws are obsolete, then under the Grace of the Blood of Jesus, those questions become mute under the New Covenant.

The standards of Biblical morality remain in place, as in Marriage between JUST male/female, no alternative lifestyles, no abortions etc!

 

[SkyWriting]

Apparently, humanly, nothing has helped.
"A passage" or two - you've , in your posts, apparently rejected every passage and twisted it to your liking.
Maybe you are realizing what sin is - it is doing what is wrong. NOT thinking it is wrong.
So making your thoughts as if "it's not wrong because I don't think it is wrong"
is further abomination, leading to condemnation because of unbelief (not believing the truth; not trusting the FATHER in HEAVEN is RIGHT).

For forgiveness, seek the Father in Heaven, turn AWAY FROM SIN (STOP SINNING),
and seek the Kingdom of Yahweh (God Almighty Sovereign).

IF you actually knew Scripture , as written, every sentence in my posts you would recognize as true and in harmony with Scripture - many almost direct quotes from Scripture. But without knowing Scripture, you want "references" to argue against, not to believe, apparently (obviously?).

We hope not, for your sake. We pray the God of Salvation might open your eyes, even grant you a heart of flesh, new, with the eyes of your heart open to Jesus, to His Way,
to be recovered unto Him, saved from sin (and from death).

ZZZZzzzzz......Where is that crossword puzzle in the church handout when you need it?

 

[SkyWriting]

The standards of Biblical morality remain in place, as in Marriage between JUST male/female, no alternative lifestyles, no abortions etc!

Are you quoting from the New Covenant? Or jist makin stuff up.


What is the new covenant?
What does the Bible mean when it talks about a new covenant between us and God? The new covenant is the ultimate solution to human rebellion. It's in the Bible, Jeremiah 31:33, NIV. "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be My people."

The new covenant comes through the death of Jesus Christ. It's in the Bible, Luke 22:20, NIV. "In the same way, after the supper He took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you."

The new covenant means we can go directly to God through Christ. It's in the Bible, Hebrews 7:22, NIV. "Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant."

There is forgiveness of sins only through the new covenant. It's in the Bible, Hebrews 9:14-15, NIV. "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant."

Under the old covenant, what did the people promise to do? It's in the Bible, Exodus 24:3, NIV. "When Moses went and told the people all the Lord's words and laws, they responded with one voice, 'Everything the Lord has said we will do.'"

Under the new covenant, what does God promise to do? It's in the Bible, Hebrews 8:10, NIV. "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be My people."

New Covenant | Bibleinfo.com

 

[YeshuaFan]

Are you quoting from the New Covenant? Or jist makin stuff up.

Jesus was the same God in both OT/NT, and he still upholds strict biblical morality!