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Featured CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    The blind cannot see that - that's why Jesus spoke to them when He was still on earth in the first cenury. They still did not see, so they perished,

    same today, if they don't repent (turn AWAY from sin - stop violating TORAH, stop transgressing the commandments (the definition of sin) ) .
     
  2. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is God's Grace through His Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth that released us, those in the Body of Christ, from the bondage of the law. The law reveals sin.
    Every free Christian is the expression of His Grace.
    Galatians 4:21-26
    21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  3. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Actually it was the penalty of the TORAH, (death), and the fact that the written TORAH could not produce eternal life,
    that Jesus set us free from - as He kept TORAH perfectly, and trained all His disciples also to obey the Father, with a way to forgiveness through and including His Atonement by His Blood, the Perfect Sacrifice Once for All Time, opening the Way to Eternal Life, "healing the sick".
    Since Jesus always obeyed TORAH, and trained all His pupils to do the same,
    TORAH is not bondage unless someone thinks they can obtain righteousness to get to heaven by keeping TORAH. In fact it is the LIGHT unto our feet, healing for the bones, and leads people TO CHRIST.
     
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    So you've not investigated it yet, huh?

    Hebrews 8:10, NIV. "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be My people."
     
  5. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    "Morality" is not even a word found in scripture. Why you makin stif up?
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The New Covenant is just a piece of the New Testament, but close.

    "But the Old or Mosaic Covenant had three fundamental flaws. First, although there was a high priest who would regularly offer an animal sacrifice for their sins, such sacrifices could never fully and finally secure their forgiveness. “For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins” (Heb. 10:4).

    Second, the law of the Old Covenant that came through Moses was unable to supply the power that people needed to fulfill and obey it. The Law of Moses was very clear in stating, “Thou shalt not” or “Do this and live” or “Be ye holy.” But there was nothing in the law itself that could empower the people to obey it. The Law of Moses told the people of Israel what they should and should not do but it was never capable of supplying them with the internal energy or the spiritual power to obey. As someone once said:

    “To run and work the law commands,
    Yet gives me neither feet nor hands.
    But better news the gospel brings:
    It bids me fly, and gives me wings!”

    The point here is that with the New Covenant that Christ established and the gift of the Holy Spirit who indwells all its members, we not only know what to do, we also have been given the power and strength to do it. More on this in a moment.

    Third, the Old or Mosaic Covenant was temporary. It was designed by God with a built-in obsolescence. God never intended for the Old Covenant to last forever. He never intended for it to be the final revelation of his will for mankind. We know this because we read in Hebrews 8:5 that everything Moses did in constructing the Old Covenant tabernacle, together with its rituals and sacrifices, was only “a copy and shadow of the heavenly things.” We also know the Old Covenant was temporary because of what we see in Jeremiah 31:31-34, a passage that is cited in Hebrews 8:8-12. There we read that God always intended to establish a new covenant with his people that would be different from the one he made with Moses and Israel following the exodus from Egypt. To this we add Hebrews 8:13 – “In speaking of a new covenant, he [God] makes the first one [the old covenant] obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.”

    (3) We read in Hebrews 8:6-7 that the very existence of this New Covenant is just one more proof or demonstration that the high priesthood of Jesus is superior to the high priesthood of Aaron and his descendants. The priestly “ministry” of Jesus is better than that of Aaron because the “covenant” he established and now mediates is better than that which came through Moses.
    "
    10 Things You Should Know about the New Covenant
     
  7. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    If you say that the apostles were fallible then you are saying the Lord is fallible because He sent them to teach us. Further, when you quote the fallible apostles you prove yourself to be teaching fallacy, according to your own words. What you are doing is picking and choosing what to believe.
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Can you treat people the same as you'd want to be treated yourself
    and
    illegally discriminate against them by perverting justice, at the same time?
    According to scripture, I mean?


    Romans 13:1-7
    Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

    1 Peter 2:13-17
    Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

    Titus 3:1
    Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

    1 Timothy 2:1-3
    First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

    Psalm 22:28
    For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

    1 Timothy 2:1-2
    First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

    Deuteronomy 16:18-20
    “You shall appoint judges and officers in all your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment. You shall not pervert justice.

    Revelation 1:5-6
    And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

    Proverbs 21:1
    The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.

    John 19:11
    Jesus answered him
    , “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

    Proverbs 8:15
    By me kings reign, and rulers decree what is just;
     
  9. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    Neither is legalized abortion, same sex weddings, and yet both would be prohibited by God!
     
  10. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Paul said he was the worst of all sinners and he was not able to do the right thing that he knew was right. Paul claimed that, not me.
     
  11. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus defined Marriage as being between one man and one woman, was he wrong?
     
  12. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Spirit inspired them just as he had the OT Prophets, so if they erred in ANY matters of doctrines and practices, the entire Bible is up for grabs as being full of errors and mistakes!
     
  13. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    You would think so, as I did, until you read this:

    Romans 13:1-7
    Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
     
  14. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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  15. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    NOT referring to him penning down inspired infallible scriptures, but that he needed to be saved by Grace, and empowered by the Holy Spirit, just as we all do!
     
  16. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    We obey the government and its rules until it violates the scriptures, and must honor God before man!
    Abortion and gay weddings forbidden in the scriptures!
     
  17. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Yet you quote him to prove your flawed theology. Paul was referring to his past, not him as the new man.
     
  18. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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  19. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    People often mistakenly think that who live in sandy villages cut off from the world.

    Romans 13:1-7
    Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience
     
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    But that is you saying that in your own words, as usual.
    Scripture says that God's law is now local government law.

    Jesus taught that here:

    John 19:11
    Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

    Do you recall what happened next?
    What if Jesus had run away and disobeyed the local law?
    You are not thinking things through very deep.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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