is deceving the same thing as lying?

[martymonster]

Is using deception and cunning the same as outright lying? If through circumstance and cunning one were to make another believe something that is untrue would that constitute a sin?

Why do you ask?

 

[gideon123]

YES .. deceiving is lying.
There, was that answer crystal clear?

Plz go to the first Epistle of John. Read the Book! Anyone who does not have truth in his heart - does not have Christ in his heart.

Well said, John!!!
We need you back on Planet Earth

These days lying and deception are so rampant, it is almost impossible to find honest behavior any more. You would be better off trying to define ... Honest Behavior.
Few people seem to have any idea what it is.

As a simple litmus test, if you are deceiving to gain money, or to gain position or power, then YES you are lying. Do not bother praying to God. First confess your sin, then change your behavior and pray for redemption.

 

[Hank77]

The keyword here is deception. Deceiving someone, regarding something they have a right to know, is still deceipt whether you do it through words or other means.

Good point.....something that they have a right to know.

 

[Hank77]

No, it's the same principle. If lies were harmless then you wouldn't go out of your way to justify them by appealing to some good end.

Nonsense. God is about behaving righteously in lovingly caring for others. A spouse setting up a surprise party is behaving in a lovingly and caring manner for the most important person in their life, even if they have to set up a cover story to do it.

 

[Hank77]

As a simple litmus test, if you are deceiving to gain money, or to gain position or power, then YES you are lying. Do not bother praying to God. First confess your sin, then change your behavior and pray for redemption.

Agree.
Or to harm someone or their character.....

 

[zippy2006]

Nonsense. God is about behaving righteously in lovingly caring for others. A spouse setting up a surprise party is behaving in a lovingly and caring manner for the most important person in their life, even if they have to set up a cover story to do it.

It's worth pointing out that a very large number of posters are appealing to the principle that the end justifies the mean. In your case you claim that lying is good when it brings about the good end of surprising your husband on his birthday. Philosophically speaking, this is poor reasoning. Just because something results in a good outcome does not mean it is itself good. Hitler and the Marxists are great examples of folks who thought that it was okay to break a few eggs to get an omelette.

(This also illustrates why random folks on the internet aren't the best source for moral advice)

 

[Monk Brendan]

Is using deception and cunning the same as outright lying? If through circumstance and cunning one were to make another believe something that is untrue would that constitute a sin?

Rahab the harlot lied to conceal the Hebrew spies, and is called "righteous" in Hebrews 11.

 

[RDKirk]

Unfortunately many do mistake themselves for God.

You were the one going into philosophy. The direction you're going indicts God.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Is using deception and cunning the same as outright lying? If through circumstance and cunning one were to make another believe something that is untrue would that constitute a sin?

Welcome to Satan's world,his mo.

mo·dus op·e·ran·di

 

[NDL]

Right, and also the Hebrew midwives (Exodus 1:15-20). If you're doing it to preserve innocent life, I believe it's permissible.

Excellent application!

***

I encourage *everyone* to look at the below verses:

Deuteronomy 29:29 - Treasury of Scripture Knowledge

There seems to be an idea among many, that just because someone asks a question, it must be answered.

 

[Cement]

However, in scripture there is much deception in warfare.

I'd argue that all the deception practiced by God in scripture is a matter of warfare.

What scripture actually prohibits is deceiving people with whom you are supposed to be in good faith.

Scripture does not, as a practice, prohibit deceiving people who are trying to kill you.

I agree we have to take everything into context and thats what matters. People on this thread have said that I was intentionally vague about my question and that was the point. I think you nailed it on the head with this answer was what i was looking for. God Bless

 

[Cement]

A general rule should be to 'put yourself in the other person's shoes' based on what you know about them; and then ask yourself, "Would I want this done to me if I was them?"

Sometimes the truth is too much to bear on us. Sometimes God does not give us the full gravity of our situation because we are not yet ready for it. Milk for the Babes and Meat for the Strong Men.

 

[Cement]

Welcome to Satan's world,his mo.

mo·dus op·e·ran·di

Thankfully its impossible for Satan to deceive those indwelt with the Spirit of Truth. However its true that many Christians are yet lacking in knowledge and wisdom. I do not exclude myself from this category. I wonder many times what I do not know that the Prophets had known.

 

[NDL]

Thankfully its impossible for Satan to deceive those indwelt with the Spirit of Truth.

I wish that I could agree with you, but:

Hebrews 5:13-14: "Everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained their sensibilities to distinguish good from evil."

 

[salt-n-light]

Is using deception and cunning the same as outright lying? If through circumstance and cunning one were to make another believe something that is untrue would that constitute a sin?

Deception is part of lying, but lying isn't exclusive to deception. Deception is really to manipulate an outcome. You can do that telling the truth.

Example:

Lie: Bobby I'm sick and its cold and rainy outside so I can't go out today (while you're not sick)
Deception: Hey Bobby, I see that its pouring rain outside, so I don't think I should be going out today. Don't wanna get sick.

But yes, if you're leading someone into deception, as in believing something untrue, their blood would be on YOUR hands. So you would be responsible for that.

 

[UnprofitableServant]

It comes back the very question people have been debating for years what is the truth

Without going to deep on the question, "what is truth". All we have to do is look at a situation to determine the truth of the matter. We are usually aware when we are being dishonest or deceiving someone in believing something that is wrong.

Not knowing what 'truth' is, could just be a way to justify someone to not admitting that they used deception.

In peace

 

[Just_a_Christian]

Is using deception and cunning the same as outright lying? If through circumstance and cunning one were to make another believe something that is untrue would that constitute a sin?

Why would one want to make someone believe something that wasn't "completely" true? One being ashamed of something, downplaying responsibility, attempting to profit somehow...and the list goes on. Is it sin? A half truth is a whole lie and in a sense could be worse than a flat out lie. Is it easier to get someone to believe a bold faced lie or a half truth....the end result being the same. We humans for some reason like to have "degrees" of sin while according to the Bible sin is sin. I once knew a man that had rather climb a tree and tell a lie than to stand on the ground and tell the truth. This man was arrested by under cover cops for propositioning them in the rest room at a local mall, on Sunday mornings he was in the pulpit.

 

[Vicomte13]

How so? If I wear a disguise will I be tried for perjury?

No more than if you lie down on a bed to give truthful testimony

 

[Roidecoeur78]

Is using deception and cunning the same as outright lying? If through circumstance and cunning one were to make another believe something that is untrue would that constitute a sin?

All lies are deceptions, or at least attempts at deception, but not all deceptions are lies.

 

[AfterThought]

All lies are deceptions, or at least attempts at deception, but not all deceptions are lies.

I guess it would be easier to hurt someone's feelings then lie to them I'm just taking a different angle on things but i agree with what you're saying