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Featured is deceving the same thing as lying?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Cement, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. Cement

    Cement Active Member

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    Is using deception and cunning the same as outright lying? If through circumstance and cunning one were to make another believe something that is untrue would that constitute a sin?
     
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  2. zippy2006

    zippy2006 Dragonsworn

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    It may be a sin but it is less grave than lying, which is intentionally attempting to cause another to believe a falsehood through the use of well-defined language. With lying the active agent is the liar in a very strong sense; with deception there is more interpretive fault on the part of the deceived (than there is in the lying scenario).
     
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  3. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Yet another anti-Trump thread?
     
  4. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Sin is sin and you seem to have spotted yet another one -- or two.

    Note -- usually if we have to wonder if sin or not -- probably is sin.

    M-Bob
     
  5. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    I'd say context matters. If you're playing a sport for instance, and feints or fake plays are part of the game, I'd say it's fine. If you're trying to sell something or otherwise gain something of monetary value and relying on these tactics, that is sin.
     
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  6. longwait

    longwait Well-Known Member

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    Deception is a form of lying, according to me atleast. Its faking and pretending which is not sincere and hence evil and something that's sinful according to the Lord.
    Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death,
    Is the man who deceives his neighbor,
    And says, I was only joking!”
    Proverbs 26:18-19
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  7. AfterThought

    AfterThought Thirst 2 Given & Know

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    well I think of something like that I think being honest it's hard because sometime honesty can hunt peoples feelings but is that deception I guess to me it depends if you're doing it for the right reasons or the bad ones is it wrong manipulate someone for good reasons as well this is my angle on things I don't know if this is off topic
     
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  8. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    Bearing false witness to a neighbor is as evil as bearing false witness against them. Paul wrote that those who practice slander or gossip (among other things) will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, which means they don't have eternal life.

    It depends on the purpose of the deception, whether it be God's will or not, whether it be godly love or not. We readily and rightly lie to an enemy who would kill us or our loved ones, as an extreme example. Parents lie to their children regularly to "save" them from the "god-awful truth," although I'm not so sure how effective that is.

    Purposely withholding the truth from someone is a kind of deception, as you are acting like you don't know what you clearly know. So then, it really does depend on the purpose of the act, and what you are trying to accomplish. In Prov. it says "the fool says whatever is on his mind." So we "hold our tongue" many times as a wise act, and not to be mischievous.

    Therefore, to say that all deception is sin is problematic. We act on what we believe is a righteous reason for doing something. We don't focus on "not lying," since that is a fool's errand. So then, concerning this question: "If through circumstance and cunning one were to make another believe something that is untrue would that constitute a sin?" - it would be sin if the result of that person's belief was sinful. For example, to persuade someone of false doctrine would be sinful, but telling a panhandler you don't have any money would not.

    It might be helpful if you explained the detail rather than ask a general question that requires "what if" scenarios.
    TD:)
     
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  9. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Yes I believe so. Like for example let’s say your alarm clock sounds and your supposed to get up to go to work but your still too sleepy and don’t want to get out of bed so you hit the snooze button a couple of times. Then you finally wake up and start getting ready for work but it takes you 5 minutes to find your car keys because your daughter was playing with them and they fell in the couch cushion. When you finally arrive at work 30 minutes late and your boss asks why are you late. If you say your late because your daughter lost your car keys that isn’t really the reason why your 30 minutes late. What you would be doing is trying to deceive your boss in order to dodge telling him the truth. To me it’s still a lie. I did something similar to this a few months ago. My boss called me and asked me why I was late and I told him my alarm didn’t sound. After a couple minutes I called him back and apologized to him and told him look I’m sorry but I lied to you. The truth is my alarm did sound but I didn’t want to get up. I told him I was sorry and it won’t happen again. He said he really appreciated that I admitted the truth and that telling the truth and accepting the consequences was more important than telling a lie. He said I didn’t have to admit what I did a could’ve gotten away with it and nobody would’ve ever known. Because of this he has more respect for me because he knows that when I say I’m a Christian it’s more than just words and he knows he can trust me to tell the truth even when I’m at fault. When people see this kind of character in us they have more respect for us and we represent both Christ and Christians in a positive manner. By doing this we show others that there is a difference between being a Christian and saying I’m a Christian.
     
  10. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    There is intentional deception - and that would be lying.

    There is also self deception -

    “But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.” James 1:22

    deception is something that is very very close to the truth ... but is not the truth.

    Matthew 24:24
    For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

    satan is the master of deception.

    2 Corinthians 11:14

    No wonder, for even satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

    In the end deception is a lie, but it can be intentional or not intentional.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  11. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Take this op post as an example.

    Is it subtle, is it subterfuge, instead of being straight up ?

    Like someone asked, is it politic?

    What is the real question ?
     
  12. Cement

    Cement Active Member

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    But lets be honest some professions like Lawyers and Used Car Salesmen are tainted with the practice of deception daily.
     
  13. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Perhaps like "whitewashed tombs" ? 'Tainted' every now and then with some isolated good deed in their overall deception?
     
  14. NDL

    NDL Member

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    I sold cars at one point in time :)

    Immediately what came to mind is Rehab the prostitute (Hebrews 11:31)
     
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  15. Cement

    Cement Active Member

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    I would even suggest that even wearing makeup is a form of deception. Your making people believe that you are more beautiful then you look on the outside. Also I find piety to be distasteful and deceptive since no one can claim to be righteous by themselves they should always be humble.
     
  16. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    I think you mean false piety, or piety for show, in your post.

    As you posted though, yes, "Beauty is vain, and charm is deceitful" (trying to attract others by 'put on ' beauty,
    trying to 'charm' anyone for ego's sake )
     
  17. NDL

    NDL Member

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    Piety is distasteful, but wearing makeup? I am not being sarcastic, nor am I being snarky, but should a woman not wear perfume for the same reason?
     
  18. Cement

    Cement Active Member

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    I find perfumes to be more alluring then deceptive but so can makeup be both alluring and deceptive.
     
  19. NDL

    NDL Member

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    Up until this point, I had not said this, lest it come across as disrespectful. And while I mean no disrespect, I say this to highlight the point - how far do you wanna take this:

    Is the Pastor who chews Clorets to be held culpable for his chewing gum? If a guy is chewing gum to mask his bad breath, here's an example of a man who's doing something with the purpose of deceiving others.
     
  20. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    And should a man not comb his hair for the same reason?
    TD:amen:
     
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