Day of the Lord

[Revealing Times]

Are you sure that the great tribulation referred to in Revelation 7 is not due to the Abomination of Desolation that Daniel spoke about in Daniel 12? To be unrivaled by times past and never to be exceeded ever again.

Yes I am 100 percent positive, because the Rapture happened BEFORE the 70th Week. The people seen thus with White Robes on have MARRIED THE LAMB by this time. Thus they came out o the 2000 year Tribulation period. Those who die as Martyrs and are under the Altar at the 5th Seal are raised up and judged at the END TIMES.........Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they(Church or Bride) sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them (Bride): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So those that died at the hands of the BEAST are not raised up until the Second Coming, so why would they be seen with White Robes on in Rev. ch. 7 ? The Church/Bride seen in Rev. 7, are also seen in Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9 in White Robes and REDEEMED. These seen in Rev. 7 are not from the 7 year tribulation period, they are from the 2000 year Church Age period. 2000 is GREATER than 7, thus the lingo used by Jesus/John is indeed correct. Its us who limits God's vocabulary.

The GREATEST TROUBLES EVER is going on after the Rapture !! Thus those in heaven came out of the 2000 year Church Age which is in itself a GREAT TRIBULATION PERIOD of 2000 years. We had millions of Martyrs during this period of time, via the Romans, via Islam, etc. etc.

 

[keras]

So nowhere are the 144,000 called preachers of the Gospel, that is a misnomer. When anyone finds it, get back to me, it's not in the bible anywhere, yet they are called 144,000 preachers.

Isaiah 66:18b-21....people from every language will come.....I shall put a sign on some of them and send them out to all the nations to proclaim My Glory....and some I shall take for My priests and Levites.
This proves that the 144,000 are selected out of the 'vast multitude' of Rev 7:9 and it is them who spread 'the Eternal Gospel', not an angel as Revelation 14:6-7 metaphorically states.
Luke 10:1-10 is a preview of this. They went out in pairs; 72+72=144 [some Bibles say 70, but 72 is correct]

Now that I have shown the truth; please correct your belief in this matter.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Brother, I have reasons why I do things, I don't just do them. I will walk you through it later, but the book of Revelation is metaphor after metaphor The stars are angels, the locusts are demons, animal beasts are kingdoms, the woman = Israel in Rev. 12 and the Red Dragon = Satan. The seven candlesticks are seven churches. The seven eyes and seven spirits = an omnipresent God. A slain lamb represents Jesus Christ etc. etc..........well you get the picture.

One thing I've noticed is the Bible explains the Bible. It tells you what things mean.
Rev. 17 tells us that the water are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Rev 17
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Rev 1 tells us that the 7 candlesticks are the 7 churches.
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
So Brother.........the Bible explains the Bible. That does not give us a get out of jail free card to start making things up........cause that's what we think. We go by what the word says.....not what we think it says.

In Rev. 14 we are shown the 144,000 on Mt. Zion with Jesus, told they are virgins which I think means they have repented and accepted Jesus, etc. etc. etc. then we get this:

Why would you think that virgins mean that they have repented and accepted Jesus. You've got to quit going by WHAT YOU THINK and go by what it says. The word says they are virgins.......that means they are virgins. The word says they are 12,000 from each tribe..........that means 12,000 from each tribe. The word says that there is 144,000..........that means 144,000. If the word says that they are sealed, that would mean that they have accepted Jesus as Messiah. Well, the word says that they are sealed.

So nowhere are the 144,000 called preachers of the Gospel, that is a misnomer. When anyone finds it, get back to me, it's not in the bible anywhere, yet they are called 144,000 preachers. So who are they then if they are not preachers I thought to myself !! Let's delve into it I thought, so I did. And I discovered the first place they are mentioned is after the Seals and just before the Trumpet Judgments, and God is telling the Angels to HOLD BACK the Trumpet Judgments (Seas, Earth, Trees) until the 144,000 are SEALED !! Then it hit me, why would God not want to hurt the TREES, SEAS & EARTH until the 144,000 are SEALED/PROTECTED ? That must mean they would be IN DANGER of these coming Judgments, that must mean this is referring to Israel who are Fleeing Judea unto Petra at about this same time.

The 144,000 are sealed because they have been born again. This sealing is not for their physical protection to go through the wrath of God. This sealing means that they are Gods. These 144,000 are the first fruits of the harvest. First fruits are a guarantee of a harvest. So we know that the harvest is the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

[Douggg]

These seen in Rev. 7 are not from the 7 year tribulation period, they are from the 2000 year Church Age period. 2000 is GREATER than 7, thus the lingo used by Jesus/John is indeed correct.

What does Matthew 24.21 say, the part in the blue, after the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place?

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
____________________________________________________________________

Daniel 12:
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

[iamlamad]

What does Matthew 24.21 say, the part in the blue, after the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place?

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
____________________________________________________________________

Daniel 12:
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

From _ _ _ _ AND (from) _ _ _ _ (to the end of these wonders) = 1290 days.

The daily sacrifice is taken away when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God. At the same time he IS the abomination. There is no time between: he pollutes the temple and the daily sacrifices MUST cease that day. But from that day - the midpoint of the week - count to 1260 and the 7th vial will be poured out to end the week. But continue on another 30 days and you come to the 1290th day; perhaps the day Jesus returns, or perhaps the day the Millennial reign begins. John does not tell us so we don't know what will happen on that 1290th day.

Yes, days of great tribulation greater than any other will begin shortly after the abomination that divides the week.

 

[iamlamad]

So Brother.........the Bible explains the Bible. That does not give us a get out of jail free card to start making things up........cause that's what we think. We go by what the word says.....not what we think it says.

Credit where credit is due: this is a GOOD post! Too many people make things up. Good answer here, Choose Wisely.

 

[iamlamad]

The 144,000 are sealed because they have been born again. This sealing is not for their physical protection to go through the wrath of God. This sealing means that they are Gods. These 144,000 are the first fruits of the harvest. First fruits are a guarantee of a harvest. So we know that the harvest is the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Sorry, but we cannot find "born again" anywhere in this passage. We can say they follow Jesus.
What do you make of this scripture?

Rev. 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

This verse really sounds as if the sealing WAS for their protection. Notice it is NOT the seal of the Holy Spirit in their spirit - which they would get if they were born again. It is a seal on their forehead.

 

[iamlamad]

Isaiah 66:18b-21....people from every language will come.....I shall put a sign on some of them and send them out to all the nations to proclaim My Glory....and some I shall take for My priests and Levites.
This proves that the 144,000 are selected out of the 'vast multitude' of Rev 7:9 and it is them who spread 'the Eternal Gospel', not an angel as Revelation 14:6-7 metaphorically states.
Luke 10:1-10 is a preview of this. They went out in pairs; 72+72=144 [some Bibles say 70, but 72 is correct]

Now that I have shown the truth; please correct your belief in this matter.

This proves that the 144,000 are selected out of the 'vast multitude' of Rev 7:9 and it is them who spread 'the Eternal Gospel', not an angel as Revelation 14:6-7 metaphorically states.
No it does not. Maybe in YOUR mind it does. There is no New Testament verse tying Isa. 66 to the 144,000. At least I have never seen such a verse. Perhaps it is your belief that needs correcting?

 

[iamlamad]

Yes I am 100 percent positive, because the Rapture happened BEFORE the 70th Week. The people seen thus with White Robes on have MARRIED THE LAMB by this time. Thus they came out o the 2000 year Tribulation period. Those who die as Martyrs and are under the Altar at the 5th Seal are raised up and judged at the END TIMES.........Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they(Church or Bride) sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them (Bride): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So those that died at the hands of the BEAST are not raised up until the Second Coming, so why would they be seen with White Robes on in Rev. ch. 7 ? The Church/Bride seen in Rev. 7, are also seen in Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9 in White Robes and REDEEMED. These seen in Rev. 7 are not from the 7 year tribulation period, they are from the 2000 year Church Age period. 2000 is GREATER than 7, thus the lingo used by Jesus/John is indeed correct. Its us who limits God's vocabulary.

The GREATEST TROUBLES EVER is going on after the Rapture !! Thus those in heaven came out of the 2000 year Church Age which is in itself a GREAT TRIBULATION PERIOD of 2000 years. We had millions of Martyrs during this period of time, via the Romans, via Islam, etc. etc.

When will you learn the truth? The first 5 seals were opened as soon as Jesus ascended are are church age events. The 5th seal is for church age martyrs.

These seen in Rev. 7 are not from the 7 year tribulation period, they are from the 2000 year Church Age period.

You have a glimpse of truth here: FOLLOW it! In Revelation the 70th week or "trib" has not yet started: it does not start until the 7th seal. You are right, this great group is the just raptured church. The rapture will come a moment before the 6th seal.

 

[iamlamad]

Brother, I have reasons why I do things, I don't just do them. I will walk you through it later, but the book of Revelation is metaphor after metaphor The stars are angels, the locusts are demons, animal beasts are kingdoms, the woman = Israel in Rev. 12 and the Red Dragon = Satan. The seven candlesticks are seven churches. The seven eyes and seven spirits = an omnipresent God. A slain lamb represents Jesus Christ etc. etc..........well you get the picture.

So why do you think a number (144,000) used in like manner in the book of Revelation is odd ? Its not. You can choose to see the book of Revelation as literal if you like, but everyone knows it is not literal, I don't even think you think that its literal in full, you mean the way you see this 144,000 is literal I assume. But we can't pick and choose, we can't be surprised if someone says hey, I think this is metaphoric in nature, because much of Revelation is metaphoric of symbolic in nature.

So why did I come to see the 144,000 as symbolic of Israel as a nation ? Good question. I didn't just come to that conclusion by accident. The first inclination was discovering the the 144,000 supposed "JEWISH PREACHERS" are never called that anywhere in scriptures, nowhere does the bible infer they will spread the gospel, the bible says that an Angel spreads the Gospel.

In Rev. 14 we are shown the 144,000 on Mt. Zion with Jesus, told they are virgins which I think means they have repented and accepted Jesus, etc. etc. etc. then we get this:

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

So nowhere are the 144,000 called preachers of the Gospel, that is a misnomer. When anyone finds it, get back to me, it's not in the bible anywhere, yet they are called 144,000 preachers. So who are they then if they are not preachers I thought to myself !! Let's delve into it I thought, so I did. And I discovered the first place they are mentioned is after the Seals and just before the Trumpet Judgments, and God is telling the Angels to HOLD BACK the Trumpet Judgments (Seas, Earth, Trees) until the 144,000 are SEALED !! Then it hit me, why would God not want to hurt the TREES, SEAS & EARTH until the 144,000 are SEALED/PROTECTED ? That must mean they would be IN DANGER of these coming Judgments, that must mean this is referring to Israel who are Fleeing Judea unto Petra at about this same time.

Thus we get all of the tribes instead of just the Livite Priesthood tribe (we don't get Dan, it seems John understood there was a legend going around that the Anti-Christ would be from the tribe of Dan, so he just left it off, that comes from my studies). We get 12 x 12 x 12 or the Fulness of Israel or ALL ISRAEL, not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation is preserved via those who repent and flee Judea unto Petra.

They have to be men on earth or the Trumpet Judgments would not hurt them, but the Angels were ordered to HOLD OFF from bringing those Judgments until these 144,000 were SEALED or PROTECTED, I think this means they had to wait on the Jews to get to Petra and then they could release the Trumpet Judgments, and in Rev. 8 we see the Trumpet Judgments affect the EARTH, SEAS AND TREES !! Do other scriptures in Revelation jibe with this ? Yes, Rev. 18:4

Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

So the Jews Flee Judea to Petra, God orders the Angels in Rev. 7 to hold of on the Trumpet Judgments (Plagues) until the "144,000" are SEALED. And then in Rev. 18:4 we see the exact same thing, God is saying, come out of her MY PEOPLE (Israel) that you don't get hit with the PLAGUES I am about to rain down upon Babylon (the wicked world).

What is the only thing we need to do to get to the point of understanding that the 144,000 is in fact the Jews who are fleeing Judea to Petra ? We just have to put the puzzle/FACTS together to see what makes sense. Are the 144,000 Jewish Preachers as the lore goes or are they actually just Israel fleeing Judea and God protecting them ? I say the evidence suggests the latter, nowhere in all the bible does it say the 144,000 are preaching the Gospel. We get them coming out of all the tribes of Israel as in all 12 tribes of Israel, and thus we get 12,000 from each tribe. So every tribe TIMES 12,000 = All the Jews are represented IN FULL !! 12 x 12 x 12.

We know they are not dead Jews who are raised and given a new body in that they need PROTECTION from the coming Trumpet Plagues, so they are human beings who live on earth whom God has to protect. In Rev. 18:4 we see that God calls them to "come out" of Babylon, lest they partake in her sins and her Judgments. Then in Rev. 14 we see them show up on Mt. Zion with Jesus, so Jesus gathers them unto himself as he returns at the Second Coming.

This is why I see the 144,000 as ALL ISRAEL. The 1/3 who come through the fire in Zechariah 13: will be ALL ISRAEL.

Zech. 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

So nowhere are the 144,000 called preachers of the Gospel, that is a misnomer.
You are absolutely right here - not one hint of them preaching the gospel. Why do people think this? They may - but it is not written, so it cannot be proven.

Your timing is STILL off: the 144,000 ( I think it is a litteral number) are raptured at the midpoint of the week and are then seen in heaven shortly after the midpoint. ON the other hand, those who flee BEGIN their flight at the midpoint. These have NOTHING to do with the 144,000.

I think this means they had to wait on the Jews to get to Petra and then they could release the Trumpet Judgments, It seems you have NO RESPECT (or no understanding) of John's chronology.

The trumpet judgments will come in the FIRST 1260 days of the 70th week - or first half. Those who flee will BEGIN their flight a second or two after the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint. Your theory therefore is bogus.

I challenge you to learn John's chronology rather than deny it.

 

[iamlamad]

Are you sure that the great tribulation referred to in Revelation 7 is not due to the Abomination of Desolation that Daniel spoke about in Daniel 12?

Absolutely sure! The 70th week has not yet started in Rev. 7. You really need to learn John's chronology. What you suggest is impossible.

 

[iamlamad]

The 200 year Church Age is THE GREAT TRIBULATION. Spend more time studying brother, and less time making graphs.



Jesus said we will always have tribulation in this world.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

So we are to have "TRIBULATION ALWAYS" and you don't understand the tribulation the Bride came out of was THE GREAT 2000 year Church Age tribulation period ?

Mens Traditions creep in unawares and has you in error.

Of course you think there can only be ONE PERIOD of Tribulation all because Jesus stated the greatest troubles ever would happen during the 70th week. But the 2000 year Church Tribulation is GREATER as in 2000>7 than the 70th week Tribulation period. We can't limit God's vocabulary.

I almost agree: the church age is certain "tribulation" and at times when there are martyrs, "great tribulation." But the entire church age has not been "great tribulation." John wrote, "I John in THE TRIBULATION...." Good job here!

 

[Revealing Times]

Actually there is. Those kings in Rev 6 aren't trying to hide from nothing.

They are hiding from the Wrath of God. Nowhere in the entire bible can you show me a scripture that says Jesus will return at the 6th Seal brother.

You are putting the tribulation period inside the wrath of God. The wrath of God starts with His coming at the 6th seal. The cosmic signs occur BEFORE the Day of the Lord.
Acts 2
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
Gods people are not appointed to wrath.

That is why we are RAPTURED pre 70th week and that is why repentant Jews are PROTECTED. The Day of the Lord begins when Jesus opens the First Seal. Acts 2 is quoting Joel, and the Hebrew word for BEFORE means in the FACE OF or in the PRESENCE OF..........the Day of the Lord, like BEFORE A KING'S FACE etc. etc. Look it up, stop trusting the English Translations brother.

In other words the Sun and moon will stop giving its light in the PRESENCE of the Day of the Lord or in the midst of the Day of the Lord.

The Wrath of God correlates with Jacob's Troubles. It's a 3.5 year period.

The remnant of Israels seed is not the church. The remnant of her seed is those that flee the abomination of desolation in the nation of Israel. These now have the testimony of Jesus Christ. The dragon goes to make war with them.

No they are not, look man, it's plain English right in your face and you miss it.

LOOK AT IT CLOSER !!

If the Dragon CAN NOT get at the Woman (Israel which = the REMNANT JEWS) and thus he decides to change course and go after the REMNANT of her SEED who are they ? They can't be the Jews because Satan just got ANGRY because he couldn't get at them !! You see how you miss the obvious there Brother ? WATCH:

Rev. 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth (ANGRY) with the woman(Israel/REMNANT JEWS), AND, went to make war with the remnant of her(Israel = HER) seed (Jesus is HER SEED) which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Let's look at why I call Jesus Israel's SEED and thus those who have Jesus' testimony the REMNANT of her SEED (Jesus).

Gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

So Jesus is THE SEED............The Church is Raptured to heaven therefore those Gentiles that give their lives unto Christ Jesus after the Rapture are what ? The REMNANT CHURCH on earth, whilst the Church has been Raptured to Heaven, another small part is indeed ON EARTH !!

They are the REMNANT (small part that is left) of her (Israel's) SEED (Jesus Christ).

How can Satan get ANGRY that he CAN'T GET AT Israel.............then go get at Israel's Remnant ? The Remnant is what he was chasing, the 1/3 who Repented !! The Remnant Church is what he then goes after. Anyone that can make it to Petra will be OK, God is going to protect them, the Church is in Heaven, but the others will indeed have to pay with their lives. They missed the Marriage Call because they were not ready, they had no oil in their lamps !!

On this........we can agree. The seals are not opened.

Now, if you would only understand that the Tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Indeed we do agree............I think you will eventually get it brother. It's all good.

 

[iamlamad]

I don't see the texts in ch 11 and 13 making sense if the 2W are giving their testimony during the 42 month of the beast. Ch 13 indicates the beast makes war with the 2W after they have finished their testimony. Ch 13 indicates that it is only during the 42 months that the beast wages war on anyone. Clearly the 2W are made war against, not during their 42 months of giving testimony, but after. After the 42 month reign of the beast is fulfilled, it is then time for the fulfillment of Matthew 24:29, IOW the events of the 6th seal.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them---fits during the following period of time---and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months(Revelation 13:5)---And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them(Revelation 13:7)--- and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed(Revelation 13:15). Therefore when the 2W give their testimony can't be when the beast reigns for 42 months.


Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Obviously the 2W are in control of things at the time.


Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Obviously the beast is in control of things at the time. Therefore two distinct periods of time are meant, where one finishes followed by the other. The 70th week involves 7 years. The 70th week is yet to be fulfilled. Revelation 11 and Revelation 13 combined make up the 70th week.

You will just have to study this in greater detail. The two witnesses SHOW UP the very moment of their first mention: 11:3. And that timing is written (if you understand it): it is just 3.5 days before the man of sin will do his abomination. That leaves 1260 days MINUS the 3.5 to testify. Most of their testimony will be during the reign of the Beast. And THAT is where God will want two witnesses. He will have 144,000 witnesses during the first half of the week.

Ch 13 indicates that it is only during the 42 months that the beast wages war on anyone.
This is probably not true. It seems VERY likely that he as the man of sin takes down three kings before his is revealed as the Beast. Since the Beast is not revealed until he abominates, (I coined this word for convenience) he cannot have killed the two witnesses previous to this time. There it leaves ONLY His 42 months in which to kill them. Since John tells us when they start, all we need do is count 1260 days from their starting point and THAT is when they are killed - which is 3.5 days before the 7th vial that ends the week.

Your Therefore bolded above is a non sequitur.
Obviously the beast is in control of things at the time. He may be in control of some things, but he cannot "control" the two witnesses. He must put up with them.

where one finishes followed by the other. Sorry, but the there are only TWO halves to anything. The first 1260 days or the first half is simply not mentioned in so many words, but from stody we can determine that the trumpet judgments come in the first half. The second half has 5 countdowns going simultaneously. All five mentions of the 3.5 years are for the second half.

Another way to say this: the Beast is not the Beast UNTIL the second half of the week. He has 42 months of authority - but his countdown starts last because He is captured by Jesus last - after the week has finished.

Why not just follow exactly what is written? No amount of human reasoning and change what is written. Face the truth: they will be killed DURING the 42 months of the Beast's authority. After that 42 months he will be in the lake of fire. He therefore can kill ONLY during his 42 months. Take careful note: the 1260 days of testifying will begin BEFORE the beast's 42 months.

 

[Revealing Times]

It appears that you are making things up here. This only adds to your confusion.

When God says 12,000 from each tribe...........He means 12,000 from each tribe. He doesn't mean the church. He doesn't mean all of Israel.........He means 12,000 from each tribe.

For you to suggest that NO METAPHORS are used in Revelation is silly brother. While we might disagree, you full well know the book of Revelation is full of Metaphors and Symbolism, so to suggest someone is making something up because you don't see it is way off the deep end. Am I making it up to say the Stars cast out of Heaven is Satan ? See my point ?

I explain in depth why I see it that way.

We can confirm He means what He says (not that we need to) because the 144,000 become the 1st fruits of the second harvest.

The Holy Spirit just gave me this about a little over an hour ago. Just like Rev. chapter 11 is all about the Two-witnesses, Rev. 12 is about the Dragon chasing the Woman, Rev. 13 is about the Beast and False Prophet and Rev. 17 is about the Harlot (False Religion). Likewise Rev. 14 has a theme also, I knew this but I have always missed one component in my thesis here. I often wondered why Jesus showed up with the 144,000 on Mt. Zion, I knew (IN MY OPINION) it was the Jews who Repented and came through the fire (the 1/3) but I wondered why they showed up with Jesus, then I understood it........It's THE HARVEST CHAPTER !! Ding, ding, ding !!

Jesus Gathers the Jews unto his Barn when he returns. He Harvests the Jews who REPENT at his Second Coming !! In verse 14 we see the Rapture of the Church when Jesus thrusts in his sickle whilst on a CLOUD mind you. And in verses 18-20 we see an Angel thrusts in his Sickle and Harvests the Wicked in the great winepress of the wrath of God !! And the blood came up to the horses bridles, in other words, the Wicked are Harvested at Armageddon.

Three Harvests are given unto us in Rev. chapter 14. God Harvests the Church, he then Harvest the Wicked and Gathers Israel into his barn. God Bless........

 

[Choose Wisely]

Absolutely sure! The 70th week has not yet started in Rev. 7. You really need to learn John's chronology. What you suggest is impossible.

Dougg was exactly correct.

 

[Choose Wisely]

They are hiding from the Wrath of God. Nowhere in the entire bible can you show me a scripture that says Jesus will return at the 6th Seal brother.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Revealing Times]

What does Matthew 24.21 say, the part in the blue, after the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place?

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

So that is the ONLY THING that can be DESCRIBED as a GREAT TRIBULATION in your mind ? All because you learned it that way, Pssttt even though it doesn't FIT !! We must stick with what we learned, even though in actuality it's according to what one is describing as per to what GREAT TRIBULATION MEANS in reality. The Church that is being described was NEVER in the 70th week. The Church was in the 2000 year Church Age Tribulation. What is being described therefore is the Church, having bece the Bride, in Heaven, who came out of GREAT TRIBULATION......And that is indeed true, 2000 years worth of Martyrdom.

If I am speaking about a RAPTURED CHURCH (Check) that were Rapture pre 70th Week (Check), and Married the Lamb in Heaven (Check) and thus when John saw himself in the GREAT MULTITUDE in Heaven, and he asked the guy who they were, and they guy responds, these came out of the GREAT TRIBULATION why would one assume it means the 70th week troubles ? Those who missed the Wedding call will be LOCKED OUT according to Jesus' own words !! Thus these are they that came out of the GREAT TRIBULATION would mean the LONGEST of two tribulation periods. The Church Age and the 70th Week. Now which is the GREATEST PERIOD ? The 2000 year Church Age no doubt is greater than the 7 year period of the latter.

So just because you always thought that is what it meant, doesn't mean that is what it meant. And the Church Age actually FITS !! The other can't be true, if you miss the Bridegrooms call you will not make the Wedding.

Just because there is a GREATEST TROUBLES EVER Period doesn't mean there can't be a period of time being spoken of as GREATER also........There are two ways to speak about things. We can speak about the SEVERITY of the troubles or the LENGTH of the troubles.

One can be of Greater Severity and one can be of Greater Length. Measurements don't have to be measured in only ONE WAY !! The Church Age Saints are the ONLY THING THAT FITS !!

 

[Revealing Times]

7 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

You are quoting a VISION of what John saw people describing, do you not get that ? They only UNDERSTAND AT THAT POINT what is going on. That is not relevant to when the Wrath starts.

So your posting tose same scriptures changes nothing brother.

 

[Choose Wisely]

You are quoting a VISION of what John saw people describing, do you not get that ? They only UNDERSTAND AT THAT POINT what is going on. That is not relevant to when the Wrath starts.

So your posting tose same scriptures changes nothing brother.

Yeah I know. That's the problem.