Day of the Lord

[iamlamad]

I would say that it means that that they are not allowed to hurt the grass, trees or any green thing but only those which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. Since I understand the order of revelation I can look over in Rev 14 and see that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth before the wrath of God begins. I see the harvest at the end of Rev 14 and realize that that is the great multitude of Rev 7.

Rev 14
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

The wrath begins.
Rev 14
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

You can certainly IMAGINE that God's wrath does not begin until chapter 14. The rest of us know His wrath began (will begin) at the 6th seal when Judgment begins. His wrath is in the trumpet judgments, which are fulfilling the Old Testament purpose of the 70th week: to destroy the world and the sinners in the world. Anyone who will read what the Old Testament has to say about the DAY and then read the trumpet judgments would KNOW they are fulfilling the DAY by starting the destruction of the world and the sinners in the world.

By the way, Rev. 14 does not tell us this is the START of God's wrath. God will have has wrath at this time for 3 1/2 years - the first half of the week.

Since I understand the order of revelation You really make me laugh on this one! Thanks for a good laugh!

 

[iamlamad]

If them in Revelation 7 come out of "greater tribulation" - it would have said so.

It is not greater great tribulation either.

It is the souls of them who will die during the time the abomination is placed in the temple.

It is not the rapture saints, nor the resurrection of them in Christ that happens at the same time.

It IS the raptured church - you just don't know it yet. Did you not notice how John used those two words together in chapter 2 - certainly NOT referring to the days of GT that Jesus spoke of?

 

[iamlamad]

2000 years is GREATER than 7 is it not ? Why do you desire to LIMIT God's vocabulary ? Because that has been a rock solid thought in your head like it was mine for 30 years, so it HAS TO BE TRUE, even though it isn't, that is why Jesus warned us about Men's Traditions. I understand, you have built your whole thesis already around it being the MARTYRS of the Tribulation period, but its not, so rework your theories brother. It is what it is. We should only want the truth, no matter how much we have to rework our thoughts and ideas !! RIGHT ?

Those are the Church who were RAPTURED, thus they have on white, those under the altar were SPECIFICALLY TOLD you must WAIT until your fellow brothers are killed in like manner as you were!! What does that say unto us Douggg ? It says they will have to REMAIN there until the Beast finishes his 42 months reign of terror, I know I told that unto you before, why does it not take brother ?

Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

They are told they HAVE TO WAIT until all their brothers are killed in like manner as they were is FULFILLED. That means they must wait on the Beast to finish if 42 months of murder and mayhem. THESE are the ones JUDGED in Rev. 20:4 after Jesus returns with the Church (Rev. 7:9 is the Church in Heaven) in tow. They came out of the 2000 year Church Age, that is what the Rapture means brother. We thus have on White, but we are not told we must WAIT like they are. MORE PROOF NEEDED ? Let's look at Rev. 20:4 a little CLOSER !!

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

BOOM, you get it ? THESE in Rev. 20:4 are the ones that died DURING the Tribulation or 70th week period. ONLY THESE could have rejected the chance SERVE THE BEAST, he wasn't around until the final 3.5 years. Psttt these are the SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR that he killed !! The ones that refused to serve him, and laid down their lives for Christ. These are the ones that you imply are in Heaven in Rev. 7:9 with white robes on, but its just not the case brother. They are the Bride in Heaven in Rev. 7:9, those under the altar are JUDGED in Rev. 20:4.

So those that came out of the GREAT (2000>7) Tribulation can ONLY BE the Raptured Church brother.

You are mistaken - as usual. The rapture will END the church age, and trigger in the DAY of the Lord. Those under the altar are CHURCH AGE martyrs and they are told they must wait for the very last CHURCH AGE martyr. (in John's narrative, the rapture is the very next event - but not seen by John) You are absolutely correct that this great crowd is the raptured church, for John saw them in chapter 7, right after he saw the 6th seal event take place in his vision.

In God's mind, TWO THINGS must absolutely be accomplished BEFORE the 7th seal begins the 70th week of Daniel:
1. The sealing of the 144,000 must be accomplished.
2. The church must be safe in heaven.

God shows John that these two events WILL BE accomplished before the 70th week.
50 generations of saints > martyrs of the 70th week.

 

[Choose Wisely]

You only tells us "the trib" comes before the 6th seal. It is your ignornorance of the Word that you don't know that the "trib" or 70th week begins in chapter 8 and goes to chapter 16. You SHOULD know this - but you don't.

So your error - your rearranging - forcing 8 chapters of Revelation back in time to overlay the first 5 seals. And all because you just cannot believe God can show signs in the sun and moon TWICE Also because you equate a blood moon (seen) with a darkened moon (not seen).

Rev. 18 - the harvest with sickles - is PROPHECY of the soon to happen end of the week: the battle of Armageddon, the parable of the tares, and the sheep and goat judgment.

This is SO simple: God is STILL ANGRY in chapter 14, for His anger has been building as judgment after judgment has come, and people have still not repented.

I can't help it if you think the seals have been opened when I have already wasted my time proving to you that they haven't. Try paying attention.

There are likely others that realize the seals have not been opened. Maybe you should listen to them. The seals have not been opened and they are the tribulation period spoken of by John......who said the same thing Jesus said in Matt 24.

Just use some common sense. When the next major war happens and the nukes start flying do you think it's going to be business as usual down at Walmart?

 

[iamlamad]

I can't help it if you think the seals have been opened when I have already wasted my time proving to you that they haven't. Try paying attention.

There are likely others that realize the seals have not been opened. Maybe you should listen to them. The seals have not been opened and they are the tribulation period spoken of by John......who said the same thing Jesus said in Matt 24.

Just use some common sense. When the next major war happens and the nukes start flying do you think it's going to be business as usual down at Walmart?

When these events begin to heaven, you will find the 6th seal will follow very closely after the rapture of the church - exactly as I have been saying.

You will be looking for a white horse, and you will be mistaken. You will be looking for a red horse, and you will not see it. These are history now...but ongoing.

 

[Revealing Times]

What you are trying to do is make Revelation 7, them coming out of the great tribulation, as a proof text for a pre-70th week timing of rapture. And jumping through hoops to do so.

The rapture may indeed happen pre-70th week or might not. But Revelation 7 is not them who have been raptured. It is their souls in heaven having died in Christ during the time that abomination of desolation is placed in the temple.

No, it is the Bride having married the Lamb. Rev. 19 tells us the White Linen is proof she is the Bride.

Rev. 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

So the Bride is adorned in White.

Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

These are THE CHURCH........Having married the Lamb and thus she has become THE BRIDE just as Rev. 19 stated was her destination.

We see her again in Rev. chapter 7.........

Rev.7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes (Bride of Christ, not the Martyrs of Seal #5 who must WAIT 42 Months until the Beasts reign is over), and palms in their hands;

Rev. 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

These are of course the RAPTURED CHURCH........The same as those we saw in Rev. 4:4 and 5:9 which of course was before any of the Seals were opened !! NOTICE: Rev. 5:9 and 7:9 uses the exact same verbiage to describe those seen in Heaven. In Rev. 7:9 we see the Great Multitude came out of every nation, kindred, people and tongue and likewise in Rev. 5:9 those were Redeemed of of every kindred, tongue, people and nation.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

It's really pretty simple, you can believe as I do that the Church was Raptured pre 70th Week, thus she stays in the Marriage Chambers for 7 Years (7 Days) just like a normal Jewish wedding and would thus have already married the Lamb by the time of the 4th and 5th chapter of Rev. in which Jesus opens the Seals, and is thus shown again in Rev. 7:9-17.

Or you can believe these are the Martyred Saints of Rev. chapter 6 (the 5th Seal) even though Jesus tells them EXPLICITLY that they have to wait until their brothers are ALL KILLED in like manner as the were. Which means they have to wait until the Beasts 42 Month reign is up. We see that the Rev. 20:4 Judgment is about those who RESISTED the Beast and DIED !! They can't have been in Heaven as per Rev. 7:9, they are not raised from the dead and Judged until Rev. 20:4

Those in Rev. 7:9-17 are the Raptured Church, that is just a fact sir. They can be nobody else in reality.

 

[Revealing Times]

I can't help it if you think the seals have been opened when I have already wasted my time proving to you that they haven't. Try paying attention.

There are likely others that realize the seals have not been opened. Maybe you should listen to them. The seals have not been opened and they are the tribulation period spoken of by John......who said the same thing Jesus said in Matt 24.

Just use some common sense. When the next major war happens and the nukes start flying do you think it's going to be business as usual down at Walmart?

I like the guy OK, but when someone comes at me with that kind of way out there stuff I just ignore it pretty much, because you are wasting time. Like I said, he's a nice enough guy, but it's the same thing in every post.

They get this because Jesus is nowhere to be found in Heaven..........they forget hes nowhere to be found on earth or under the earth also, which means he was in Heaven all the time, John just didn't understand he was the Slain Lamb before the throne.

 

[Douggg]

No, it is the Bride having married the Lamb. Rev. 19 tells us the White Linen is proof she is the Bride.

Rev. 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

So the Bride is adorned in White.

Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

These are THE CHURCH........Having married the Lamb and thus she has become THE BRIDE just as Rev. 19 stated was her destination.

We see her again in Rev. chapter 7.........

Rev.7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes (Bride of Christ, not the Martyrs of Seal #5 who must WAIT 42 Months until the Beasts reign is over), and palms in their hands;

Rev. 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

These are of course the RAPTURED CHURCH........The same as those we saw in Rev. 4:4 and 5:9 which of course was before any of the Seals were opened !! NOTICE: Rev. 5:9 and 7:9 uses the exact same verbiage to describe those seen in Heaven. In Rev. 7:9 we see the Great Multitude came out of every nation, kindred, people and tongue and likewise in Rev. 5:9 those were Redeemed of of every kindred, tongue, people and nation.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

It's really pretty simple, you can believe as I do that the Church was Raptured pre 70th Week, thus she stays in the Marriage Chambers for 7 Years (7 Days) just like a normal Jewish wedding and would thus have already married the Lamb by the time of the 4th and 5th chapter of Rev. in which Jesus opens the Seals, and is thus shown again in Rev. 7:9-17. Or you can believe these are the Martyred Saints of Rev. chapter 6, the 5th Seal, even though Jesus tells them EXPLICITLY that they have to wait until their brothers are ALL KILLED in like manner as the were. Which means they have to wait until the Beasts 42 Month reign is up. We see that the Rev. 20:4 Judgment is about those we RESISTED the Beast and DIED !! They can't have been in Heaven as per Rev. 7:9, they are not raised from the dead and Judged until Rev. 20:4

Those in Rev. 7:9-17 are the Raptured Church, that is just a fact sir. Ur can be nobody else.

RT, you are building your case on the white robes - which doesn't make them in Revelation 7 the raptured/resurrected church - but is the condition of their garments because they are washed free of sin by the blood of Jesus. Which it is their souls in heaven. Not their resurrected bodies in Revelation 7.

 

[Choose Wisely]

You can certainly IMAGINE that God's wrath does not begin until chapter 14. The rest of us know His wrath began (will begin) at the 6th seal when Judgment begins. His wrath is in the trumpet judgments,

Just once.........pay attention......and try to keep up. Why do you babel this stuff. You know that I say that the wrath of God begins with the opening of the 7th seal. Oh look, in Rev 11 we have the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God. Oh look, in Rev 11 we have the judgement of the dead. I guess we can pretend that those verses aren't there. Let's just skip over them because it probably doesn't mean anything that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God. Let's just disregard that piece of information and blindly carry on.

Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

By the way, Rev. 14 does not tell us this is the START of God's wrath. God will have has wrath at this time for 3 1/2 years - the first half of the week.

Oh look, we see the harvest of the earth. One group is gathered to the clouds and we see the other group cast into the wrath of God. I thought you said that the wrath of God does not start in Revelation 14. Gee whiz that's confusing. If the wrath of God begins with the opening of the 7th seal (which it does) how are these people now being cast into the wrath of God. Maybe these people were were just waiting around for the wrath of God to get to them. I think you're right. Let's just disregard the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our God in Rev 11 and then let's disregard these people being cast into the wrath of God in Rev 14. Ok, I'm on the same page as you now. If we just disregard some of this stuff and dream up a coming of Jesus in Rev 5.........it all works perfectly. Thanks.

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Since I understand the order of revelation You really make me laugh on this one! Thanks for a good laugh!

You are quite welcome, Brother.

 

[iamlamad]

Just once.........pay attention......and try to keep up. Why do you babel this stuff. You know that I say that the wrath of God begins with the opening of the 7th seal. Oh look, in Rev 11 we have the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God. Oh look, in Rev 11 we have the judgement of the dead. I guess we can pretend that those verses aren't there. Let's just skip over them because it probably doesn't mean anything that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God. Let's just disregard that piece of information and blindly carry on.

Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Oh look, we see the harvest of the earth. One group is gathered to the clouds and we see the other group cast into the wrath of God. I thought you said that the wrath of God does not start in Revelation 14. Gee whiz that's confusing. If the wrath of God begins with the opening of the 7th seal (which it does) how are these people now being cast into the wrath of God. Maybe these people were were just waiting around for the wrath of God to get to them. I think you're right. Let's just disregard the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our God in Rev 11 and then let's disregard these people being cast into the wrath of God in Rev 14. Ok, I'm on the same page as you now. If we just disregard some of this stuff and dream up a coming of Jesus in Rev 5.........it all works perfectly. Thanks.

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


You are quite welcome, Brother.

In John's narrative, angels speak, God speaks, John speaks, the four beasts speak, and the 24 elders speak. Yes, even the people speak. We learn from what is said.

Some of what is said is someone telling John what he is seeing at that moment. Some of what is said is prophecy: foretelling what will soon come - and we prove this because we read that what was prophesied did happen later in the book. Some people imagine what is prophesied actually takes place right where John wrote the prophecy! They ignore the fact that the very thing prophesied takes place later in the book.

Some people ignore that John numbered the seals, the trumpets, the woes, and the vials for sequencing. They imaging they can rearrange what John wrote - even rearrange what John numbered! Outside of what John numbered, the Holy Spirit, guiding John, set the chronology. Many people feel the need to rearrange whole chapters! It is all silliness, for God knew the order these things would happen and wrote the book as if it was history - in the very order these events will take place.

Most people ignore the fact that much of the verbs John used were Greek Aorist tense verbs that are simply not inflected to show tense or timing. For example, when John wrote that "the great day of His wrath is come" appears in English as if it CAME - at that moment. But there is no timing information in the Greek word for "is come." The most accurate way we could say what the Greek is saying is to avoid any English verb that shows tense. That is VERY Hard to do. The best we could do is write, "the great day of His wrath..." or perhaps, the great day of His wrath has come, or is here, or will come..." MOST of John's verbs are Aorist tense verbs. However, it seems from study that when John mentions an event - we are to understand it begins at the point of mention. The exception is, if it is given as a prophecy. A few verbs are future tense, such as the verbs used for the two witnesses: "will" and "shall." I think the Holy Spirit wanted us to know that from their first verse of mention, that is when they begin their testimony.

If we examine the Old Testament on the Day of the Lord, His wrath is either mentioned or strongly hinted. John's first mention of wrath is at the 6th seal. The next time wrath is mentioned is in chapter 11. That verb also is an Aorist tense verb, that shows no timing. But since it is only half way through the 70th week, we can say without doubt that God's wrath which began at the 6th seal is continuing. Therefore, the trumpet judgments come with His wrath, by deduction, and the vials come with His wrath because it is written precisely. In other words, God gets angry at the 6th seal and His anger continues on througout the entire week and on to the battle of Armageddon. It seems His wrath will not end until justice is served and all who refused to repent are gone.

You are the first and only one I have ever read after that imagines that God gets angry, then gets over it, they gets angry again! There is simply no verses even hinting at such a thing. A careful study of the book will show that THE DAY begins, then the week begins, then the week ends, and the DAY of the Lord continues on - people disagree on when THE DAY actually ends. Since the day is the day of His wrath, then the events happening in the day should come with wrath.

Yes, I know you say His wrath begins at the 7th seal. I say the 6th seal, but we are close there. But you say it ends when there is no scriptural evidence of that. Just because wrath is mentioned again does not mean God got over His anger and then got angry again!

Agreed: in John's narrative, at the 7th trumpet, chapter 11, Jesus becomes the rightful ruler of planet earth. I acknowledge this as truth. I also acknowledge that from this time on, NO MORE DELAY: God is going to bring the time of judgment to a swift end. However, He has promised the Beast 42 months of authority, so even though Jesus has become the rightful ruler of Earth, He cannot take possession at this time - the midpoint of the week. He MUST allow the Beast his 42 months.

Correction: in chapter 11 we have the PROPHECY of the judgment of the dead. We can KNOW it is prophecy because we see what was prophesied happening latter on in the book. We also notice that this prophecy came from the 24 elders. It was included in John's narrative, but it was not something that God said, or an angel said. In other words, the 24 elders are not the one in authority to cause the harvest to begin.

For example, we know from farther on in John's narrative that the wicked dead are not judged until a thousand years later - NOT in the timeframe of chapter 11. This is further proof the 4 elders are prophesying. Therefore, we are NOT pretending these verses are not here, we are just UNDERSTANDING these verses for what they are. From your prospective, John might as well have skipped to chapter 21 right after chapter 11! After all, the judgment is done. NO! These verses are PROPHECY of future events.

18 And the nations were angry,.......................................................Aorist verb
and thy wrath is come,...................................................................Aorist verb
and the time of the dead, that they should be judged,........................Aorist verb
and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets,....Aorist verb
and that thou shouldest give reward unto the saints, same verb
and that thou shouldest give reward unto them that fear thy name, small and great; and
Fear is present tense
shouldest destroy them...................................................................Aorist tense
which destroy the earth...................................................................Present tense

Notice that in the Greek there is NO TIMING information given except for fearing the Lord and for those destroying the earth. These two things are ongoing at that point in time. Therefore, I am NOT just "blindly" carrying on. I study to show myself approved.

 

[iamlamad]

I can't help it if you think the seals have been opened when I have already wasted my time proving to you that they haven't. Try paying attention.

There are likely others that realize the seals have not been opened. Maybe you should listen to them. The seals have not been opened and they are the tribulation period spoken of by John......who said the same thing Jesus said in Matt 24.

Just use some common sense. When the next major war happens and the nukes start flying do you think it's going to be business as usual down at Walmart?

You are only showing us that you lack understanding of chapters 4, 5 and 6! You are showing us you totally ignore the message chapters 4 & 5 bring us: TIMING. You read that John saw Jesus suddenly appear in the throne room, and send the Holy Spirit down, don't understand WHY John included that, and then go blindly on your way coming up with your own theories, rather than accepting God's correct and intended meaning. In other words, you only prove things to yourself! Proof that is aginst scripture is no proof at all.

Try and get this - although you have seen it all before and ignored it every time:

Seal 1 is the church sent out with the gospel.
Seal 2, seal 3 and seal 4: these riders ride together to try and stop the gospel from spreading.
Seal 5 is for the martyrs of the church age.

Why ignore the truth of scripture and reason your way into some theory that does not fit?

 

[iamlamad]

I like the guy OK, but when someone comes at me with that kind of way out there stuff I just ignore it pretty much, because you are wasting time. Like I said, he's a nice enough guy, but it's the same thing in every post.

They get this because Jesus is nowhere to be found in Heaven..........they forget hes nowhere to be found on earth or under the earth also, which means he was in Heaven all the time, John just didn't understand he was the Slain Lamb before the throne.

It is the same thing, because it is TRUTH. Why change what is correct?

However, thanks for the compliment! You are correct in many things yourself. You imagine Jesus was there all the time, but was Jesus there in heaven for the 32 years He was on earth? Was He in heaven during the 3 days and nights He was under the earth? You KNOW the right answer!

 

[iamlamad]

RT, you are building your case on the white robes - which doesn't make them in Revelation 7 the raptured/resurrected church - but is the condition of their garments because they are washed free of sin by the blood of Jesus. Which it is their souls in heaven. Not their resurrected bodies in Revelation 7.

I disagree, as you know. It is the raptured church simply because the rapture just took place according to Paul.

 

[Douggg]

I disagree, as you know. It is the raptured church simply because the rapture just took place according to Paul.

It doesn't say resurrected from the dead in Revelation 7.

 

[Revealing Times]

RT, you are building your case on the white robes - which doesn't make them in Revelation 7 the raptured/resurrected church - but is the condition of their garments because they are washed free of sin by the blood of Jesus. Which it is their souls in heaven. Not their resurrected bodies in Revelation 7.

Good grief man, no human flesh can enter Heaven. Why are you straining at a gnat to try and prove a point that is a lost hope ?

1 Corinthians 15:49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

50 Now I declare to you, brothers,that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—…...........

Jesus told Mary not to touch him when she saw him risen from the grave, if she had his "SACRIFICIAL OFFERING" would have been corrupted !!

The Robe is a Body, not a Soul. We get a White Robe which = a New Body, we don't get a new soul brother, you soul and mine better be washed in the blood or we ain't going to Heaven. Multitudes ASLEEP in the grave don't gather in the throne room of Heaven. You overcomplicate this because you are entrenched in an erroneous position brother.

We see then in Rev. 4, 5 and 7. They are the Raptured Church. Why wouldn't they be with Jesus in Heaven ? Oh I SEE...........all because of a passage that says "they came out of the GREAT TRIBULATION" and you thought it meant the dead martyrs from tribulation are taken to heaven. even though Jesus stated all those who miss the calling unto the wedding will be SHUT OUT. Even though the Bride is seen in Rev. 4:4 and 5:9 before any Seals are opened !!

All because of the words GREAT TRIBULATION, which you think has to mean GREATEST TROUBLES, it can't mean GREATEST of two different periods of time can it ? I mean a GREAT 2000 YEAR Church Age period verses a LESSER 7 year 70th week period can't be it.......even though it is.

 

[keras]

Those in Rev. 7:9-17 are the Raptured Church, that is just a fact sir. They can be nobody else in reality.

The reality is that they are alive people, all the faithful Christians, in the holy Land.
Heaven is never mentioned in Rev 7.
The prophesied truth is about the gathering of all of God's people into His Land, soon after the Lord's Day of wrath has removed all the ungodly peoples.
Jesus plainly stated that no one would go to heaven, He even prayed to the Father for Him to NOT take His people away. John 17:15

Making statements like you do above, is a very serious matter. You must, for your own sake, cease making such badly wrong and foolish opinions.

 

[Revealing Times]

It is the same thing, because it is TRUTH. Why change what is correct?

However, thanks for the compliment! You are correct in many things yourself. You imagine Jesus was there all the time, but was Jesus there in heaven for the 32 years He was on earth? Was He in heaven during the 3 days and nights He was under the earth? You KNOW the right answer!

Rev. 4:1 through 16 is a 7 Year Period called the 70th Week. Why would Jesus be on earth during that future period of time ?

 

[Douggg]

Good grief man, no human flesh can enter Heaven. Why are you straining at a gnat to try and prove a point that is a lost hope ?

Who is saying that in the resurrection that them dead in Christ will be resurrected in their
corruptible bodies?

The point is RT is that in Revelation 7 is there is no resurrection. The multitude were seen as "souls", not resurrected saints.

 

[Revealing Times]

The reality is that they are alive people, all the faithful Christians, in the holy Land.
Heaven is never mentioned in Rev 7.
The prophesied truth is about the gathering of all of God's people into His Land, soon after the Lord's Day of wrath has removed all the ungodly peoples.
Jesus plainly stated that no one would go to heaven, He even prayed to the Father for Him to NOT take His people away. John 17:15

Making statements like you do above, is a very serious matter. You must, for your own sake, cease making such badly wrong and foolish opinions.

WHAT ? { Crossover....ZOOMING BY....RT goes in for the 360 DUNK BOOM !! BOOM }

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

I am putting it together for you brother, stop fighting it. I mean that statement you made, reading the text I must say leaves me bewildered !! So they are ON EARTH even though the text says they are in the THRONE ROOM of God which is described in Rev. chapters 4 and 5.

LET US LOOK AT IT IN DEPTH: Discovery mode initiated.

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

There was no Chapters and verses, we are going back and forth between events in Heaven and the goings on down on earth as per the Throne room (Rev. 4 and 5) the Seals on earth (Rev. 6) the 144,000 Jews on earth (Rev. 7) the Multitude in Heaven (Rev. 7) the Trumpet Judgments on Earth (Rev. 8) etc. etc.

Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. 5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. 6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created

Rev. chapter 5

Rev. 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

I did this to let it reverberate through everyone's soul, their very fiber of being, where this is happening, this is the Bride in the throne room with God, the Elders, the Multitude that is seen in Rev. 5:9, before Jesus opens the seals they sing thou art Worthy who has REDEEMED us to OPEN THE SEALS. Worthy, worthy, worthy. Amen.

Then we see the Seals effect on the earth in Rev. ch. 6, we then see the 144,000 who I see as Israel Fleeing Judea to Petra, and God SEALING (Protecting them in Petra) and God saying HOLD BACK THE TRUMPET JUDGMENTS (hurt not the Earth, Seas or Trees) until my people are protected in Petra. The 144,000 are the DESCRIBED as coming from every tribe as in 12 x 12 x 12 which means ALL ISRAEL since 12 represents Fullness. So All the Jews who REPENT are 12 x 12 x 12. God protects them, just like is described in Rev. ch. 12 for 1260 days.

Then we see the THRONE ROOM again, the Bride is shown in full now, John has been in the THRONE ROOM the whole time !! Now he is told these in White Robes seen in Rev. 7:9-17 who are also IN THE THRONE ROOM, came out of the Great (2000 year Church Age Tribulation) Tribulation, just as John did who was there also. Its one continuous vision !! Then we see Rev. 8 and the Trumpet Judgments which bring plagues unto what ? The EARTH...SEAS...and TREES that Burn !! Hurt not the earth, sea nor trees until the 144,000 (Jews who Flee) are PROTECTED !!

Meaning they are HUMANS !! They need PROTECTING !! They are the Jews who Flee Judea.

And then as the 7th Seal was opened in Heaven there was silence (half hour) and the Angels were given 7 Trumpets, but WHY THE SILENCE for a time ? The prayers of the Saints were brought before the nostrils of God before His judgments were sent forth,

Rev. 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. 6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Everything John has seen has been from THE THRONE ROOM of God since Rev. 4:1, he is a part of the Bride, it is the Bride in Heaven in Rev. 7, no one else !! Amen.

 

[Revealing Times]

Who is saying that in the resurrection that them dead in Christ will be resurrected in their
corruptible bodies?

The point is RT is that in Revelation 7 is there is no resurrection. The multitude were seen as "souls", not resurrected saints.

No they are not, they are in THE THRONE ROOM with God, see post #279.