Day of the Lord

[Choose Wisely]

There is no coming of Jesus at the 6th Seal brother.

Actually there is. Those kings in Rev 6 aren't trying to hide from nothing.

The Wrath of God will kill 1.5 to 2 Billion via the Beast/Anti-Christ, the Sun, Moon and Stars signal that the Wrath of God is upon mankind, thus when it states that men say to the rocks fall on us that is a general statement about the FEAR OF THE WICKED from the Wrath that they understand is UPON THEM.

You are putting the tribulation period inside the wrath of God. The wrath of God starts with His coming at the 6th seal. The cosmic signs occur BEFORE the Day of the Lord.
Acts 2
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
Gods people are not appointed to wrath.

This is just not factual brother, the 5 Virgins who were left behind had the door SHUT ON THEM, they must endure, nut Israel are protected. SEE Rev. 12:17, when the Dragon can not get at the Woman (Israel) he goes after the REMNANT OF HER SEED .........

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The REMNANT of her (Israel's) SEED (Jesus was her Seed) is thus the Church, who keep God's commandments AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ. This means those who became Christians AFTER the Rapture, they must endure, they did not have enough light in their lamps, so they missed the call to the Marriage. They are thus going to have to die for Christ, they are the Martyrs under the Altar at the 5th Seal.

The remnant of Israels seed is not the church. The remnant of her seed is those that flee the abomination of desolation in the nation of Israel. These now have the testimony of Jesus Christ. The dragon goes to make war with them.

 

[Choose Wisely]

You ever here of the Jesus couldn't be found in all of Heaven guys ? They therefore think while Rev. 5 was happening Jesus thus ASCENDED to Heaven. They think the SEALS were opened 2000 years ago. But when I point out it says he was NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.......In Heaven, ON EARTH or UNDER THE EARTH they poo poo my point, LOL.

Jesus was in Heaven all the time, he was a SLAIN LAMB !! John sees him as a SLAIN LAMB and thus he stops crying because he realizes Jesus is the slain Lamb and thus can open the Seals.

I have went around with them, it's nonsensical stuff really. But they believe it, so I usually just ignore it, I have seen quite a few argue this point over and over, the Seals were opened 2000 years ago, we are waiting on the 6th Seal to be opened according to their thinking, I kid you not.

On this........we can agree. The seals are not opened.

Now, if you would only understand that the Tribulation is not the wrath of God.

 

[iamlamad]

Let's think about this for a moment.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

We know from this verse that they are not made war against, nor overcome, nor killed, during the 3.5 years they are giving their testimony. This obviously requires another period of time after the 3.5 years they give their testimony in order to fulfill verse 7. Thus another 3.5 year period follows, this period referring to the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13, obviously.

Verse 7 does not say when they are killed, it only says they are killed. When they are killed then come to life again, the 7th trumpet soon follows.

You are missing the truth of these verses. First, they testify for 1260 days. But when exactly do they BEGIN? John TELLS us: they begin their testimony right where John first sees them: a moment after the 42 month countdown for the trampling of the city begins. We can be even more accurate: they will begin their testimony exactly 3 1/2 days before the man of sin enters the temple and causes the abomination that ends the daily sacrifices and that event will happen on the 1260th day of the week.

They then testify for 1260 days - and that takes them almost to the end of the week: just 3 1/2 days before the end. They are then killed (on their 1260th day of testifying) and will lay dead for 3 1/2 days - which will take them to the 7th vial that ENDS the week.

Make no mistake! All five of these mentions of the 3 1/2 years (whether given in days, months or years) are all for events that will begin near the midpoint and go to the end of the week.

Again make no mistake: the 7th trumpet is the MIDPOINT of the week. They begin testifying just before the midpoint and are killed just before the end of the week. HOW can this be? It is simple: verses 11:4 through 11:13 are written as parenthesis.

11:1-11:2, where the 42 month countdown begins are probably 3 1/2 days before the midpoint. It is the man of sin entering Jerusalem. (He must first enter to Jerusalem if he is to enter the temple in Jerusalem.) These two verses shows the man of sin coming with Gentile armies. The two witnesses show up BECAUSE the man of sin shows up in Jerusalem. God knows what he is about to do. He wants witnesses. Next, John shows us the two witnesses show up, just 3 1/2 days before the midpoint.

I know it LOOKS at first as if all this happens before the 7th trumpet, but that is because few people understand that John takes us on a side journey down the last half of the week with the two witnesses - written as a parenthesis - when in reality their testimony is the LAST HALF of the week.

 

[iamlamad]

I'm pretty sure it says immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days.

If you try using the scripture EXACTLY like it says you will get the correct outcome. Playing around with the words is as you like to say.........sending down the wrong rabbit hole.

How like you trying to fit "the tribulation" of chapters 8 through 16 before the 6th seal!

 

[iamlamad]

It is talking about at, near, the end of the 7 years - not after the 7 years are over.

Why do you say this? what verse or verses prove this statement?

 

[Choose Wisely]

Like I stated, I don't think the Fig Tree Parable means anything except what I stated above. As per the 144,000:

I don't think the 144,000 is an actual number, it's a metaphor for ALL ISRAEL. The number 12 means FULLNESS, thus 12 x 12 x 12 = ALL ISRAEL, not every Jew, but all Jews that turn unto God or repent, thus Israel's seed is preserved forever, just like God promised Abraham. When the 144,000 are SEALED in chapter 7 that means ALL ISRAEL who repented/accepted Jesus, and Fled to Judea, God tells the Angels to hurt not the earth, sea nor the trees until they are SEALED (in Petra) then the Trumpet Plagues can go forth onto mankind, the Trees Burn, the Seas turn to blood, the Earth has plague after plague brought against it. In Rev. 18, when God says "Come out of her my people, lest ye receive of her plagues" God is telling Israel to FLEE Judea and go to Petra where He will protect them, else they will be in the middle of those Plagues! Israel repent BEFORE the Day of the Lord, just as Malachi 4:5-6 says.

It appears that you are making things up here. This only adds to your confusion.

When God says 12,000 from each tribe...........He means 12,000 from each tribe. He doesn't mean the church. He doesn't mean all of Israel.........He means 12,000 from each tribe.

We can confirm He means what He says (not that we need to) because the 144,000 become the 1st fruits of the second harvest.

Even though God saw the fathers of Israel as the 1st fruits of the 1st harvest.........Israel served other Gods and therefore the Gentiles would go in the 1st harvest.

Hos 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

 

[iamlamad]

The multitude in Revelation 7 come out of the great tribulation. In order to come out of the great tribulation, they first have to have been in it. They are not the raptured saints.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

One HUGE problem with this theory: John does not GET to the days of GT until after chapter 14! Therefore that cannot be the meaning in chapter 7. What John is telling us about the great crowd too large to number is that at the time of the rapture it will BE great tribulation - that is people dying for their testimony. How can tribulation be any greater for those that are martyred? They cannot be martyred twice. In other words, when we see the two words together, "great" and "tribulation" don't just assume it is talking about the days of GT that Jesus spoke of. Those two words were NOT ENOUGH for Jesus: He had to add that there never would be days as bad.

It seems that in the mind of God, the entire church age is "tribulation" and some times, when martyrs are being killed, it is GREAT tribulation - just not the days Jesus spoke of.

Make no mistake, this great crowd, too large to number, IS the just raptured church. Imagine, those that love Jesus from EVERY generation since Jesus ascended: perhaps 50 generations of believers: surely a crowd too large to number, and MUCH larger that the tribulation martyrs.

 

[Choose Wisely]

How like you trying to fit "the tribulation" of chapters 8 through 16 before the 6th seal!

Please don't speak in ignorance or post my quote showing I said this.

 

[Choose Wisely]

One HUGE problem with this theory: John does not GET to the days of GT until after chapter 14! Therefore that cannot be the meaning in chapter 7.

Doug is correct. Since you don't understand the order of Revelation......you don't understand.

 

[Douggg]

Why do you say this? what verse or verses prove this statement?

lamad, you have to start in Revelation 19:
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Then you gotta work backwards to Revelation 16:14-16, as they gather their armies for that purpose...

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Then you gotta continue working backwards from there to Revelation 6, to know why they gather their armies.

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

They know they are about to be judged, and that the beast' s time and the Satan's time (the time, times, half time) is about to run out. So they will gather their armies to try and make war on Jesus.

That's how you can know Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

....(the immediately after the tribulation of those days) is talking about at, near, the end of the 7 years - not after the 7 years are over.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Why do you say this? what verse or verses prove this statement?

The 7 years are not over until Jesus returns..........at the 6th seal............Matt 24..........Paul's gathering.
Then the wrath of God begins.

 

[iamlamad]

There is no coming of Jesus at the 6th Seal brother. People get on wrong paths or forks in the road it it takes them down wrong path after path my friend.The Rapture happens Pre-trib, the Martyrs under the Altar ARE NOT the Multitude in Rev. ch. 7, the Multitude in Rev. 7 were also seen in Rev. 4:1 and in Rev. 5:9, they came out of the Church Age VIA the pre-trib Rapture. Those under the Altar in the 5th Seal are thus Judged at the Judgment Seat in Reb. 20:4 after Jesus Returns. READ IT.....They refused to SERVE THE BEAST !! Israel are protected by God in Petra, he doesn't return at the 6th Seal. Why would he ? The Rapture takes the Church, God Protects Israel Himself for 1260 days, so please explain to my why Jesus would return at the 6th Seal.

This is a "times" that has not been "revealing" to you.
OF COURSE there is a coming, but it is not AT the 6th seal, for that is the start of wrath; it is just BEFORE the 6th seal. Go back and study 1 Thes. 5 and you will discover that Paul tells us the rapture comes a moment before the start of WRATH. In Revelation that can ONLY be a moment before the 6th seal earthquake. In fact, that earthquake is Paul's "sudden destruction" and will be caused by the dead in Christ rising. Matthew 27 tells us, "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened" when Jesus raised the elders of the Old Covenant. When God raises the dead, it causes an earthquake. Notice there is also an earthquake when the two witnesses are raised. That is the same earthquake we read of at the 7th vial.

So Jesus comes, the dead in Christ are raised, then those alive and in Christ are caught up - just as the ground begins to quake: Paul's sudden destruction - the beginning of God's wrath - at the 6th seal.

Just so you know - if you are willing to learn - the "trib" does not begin until the 30 minutes of silence at the 7th seal - so the rapture is both prewrath AND pretrib.

The Rapture happens Pre-trib, Truth!
the Martyrs under the Altar ARE NOT the Multitude in Rev. ch. 7, Truth!
the Multitude in Rev. 7 were also seen in Rev. 4:1 and in Rev. 5:9 WRONG!

Revelation 4:1 is JOHN being called up. Making that a rapture is the poorest excuse for exegesis. Rev. 5:9 is for all humans of all times. Jesus blood was shed for ALL. God is not willing that ANY should perish.

Those under the Altar in the 5th Seal are thus Judged at the Judgment Seat in Reb. 20:4 after Jesus Returns. WRONG! The 5th seal are the martyrs of the CHURCH AGE. They are a part of the dead in Christ that are risen at the rapture. Your timing is wrong. The church age continues right up to the rapture a moment before the 6th seal brings on judgment and wrath.

They refused to SERVE THE BEAST !! WRONG! The Beast is not even introduced until chapter 13! READ IT! Don't rearrange. They are church age martyrs and are told they most wait for the final number - the LAST church age martyr.

he doesn't return at the 6th Seal. Why would he ? FOR THE RAPTURE, of course! You need further study on 1 Thes. 5.

please explain to my why Jesus would return at the 6th Seal. It's so simple: for the rapture. The church MUST be taken before His wrath begins. You imagine it in Rev. 4:1 - but you are so mistaken! That is JOHN caught up - not the church.

 

[DavidPT]

You are missing the truth of these verses. First, they testify for 1260 days. But when exactly do they BEGIN? John TELLS us: they begin their testimony right where John first sees them: a moment after the 42 month countdown for the trampling of the city begins. We can be even more accurate: they will begin their testimony exactly 3 1/2 days before the man of sin enters the temple and causes the abomination that ends the daily sacrifices and that event will happen on the 1260th day of the week.

They then testify for 1260 days - and that takes them almost to the end of the week: just 3 1/2 days before the end. They are then killed (on their 1260th day of testifying) and will lay dead for 3 1/2 days - which will take them to the 7th vial that ENDS the week.

Make no mistake! All five of these mentions of the 3 1/2 years (whether given in days, months or years) are all for events that will begin near the midpoint and go to the end of the week.

Again make no mistake: the 7th trumpet is the MIDPOINT of the week. They begin testifying just before the midpoint and are killed just before the end of the week. HOW can this be? It is simple: verses 11:4 through 11:13 are written as parenthesis.

11:1-11:2, where the 42 month countdown begins are probably 3 1/2 days before the midpoint. It is the man of sin entering Jerusalem. (He must first enter to Jerusalem if he is to enter the temple in Jerusalem.) These two verses shows the man of sin coming with Gentile armies. The two witnesses show up BECAUSE the man of sin shows up in Jerusalem. God knows what he is about to do. He wants witnesses. Next, John shows us the two witnesses show up, just 3 1/2 days before the midpoint.

I know it LOOKS at first as if all this happens before the 7th trumpet, but that is because few people understand that John takes us on a side journey down the last half of the week with the two witnesses - written as a parenthesis - when in reality their testimony is the LAST HALF of the week.

I don't see the texts in ch 11 and 13 making sense if the 2W are giving their testimony during the 42 month of the beast. Ch 13 indicates the beast makes war with the 2W after they have finished their testimony. Ch 13 indicates that it is only during the 42 months that the beast wages war on anyone. Clearly the 2W are made war against, not during their 42 months of giving testimony, but after. After the 42 month reign of the beast is fulfilled, it is then time for the fulfillment of Matthew 24:29, IOW the events of the 6th seal.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them---fits during the following period of time---and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months(Revelation 13:5)---And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them(Revelation 13:7)--- and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed(Revelation 13:15). Therefore when the 2W give their testimony can't be when the beast reigns for 42 months.


Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Obviously the 2W are in control of things at the time.


Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Obviously the beast is in control of things at the time. Therefore two distinct periods of time are meant, where one finishes followed by the other. The 70th week involves 7 years. The 70th week is yet to be fulfilled. Revelation 11 and Revelation 13 combined make up the 70th week.

 

[Bladerunner]

I agree with Blade here: when John wrote 12,000 from each tribe, why try to change it?

Thank You iamlamad; I think GOD went out of HIS way to make sure we looked at Revelation literally and using all the numbers and extra care to explain everything, yet there are those that want to change what He Says for personal reasons.

Blade

 

[Revealing Times]

The multitude in Revelation 7 come out of the great tribulation. In order to come out of the great tribulation, they first have to have been in it. They are not the raptured saints.

The 200 year Church Age is THE GREAT TRIBULATION. Spend more time studying brother, and less time making graphs.

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Jesus said we will always have tribulation in this world.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

So we are to have "TRIBULATION ALWAYS" and you don't understand the tribulation the Bride came out of was THE GREAT 2000 year Church Age tribulation period ?

Mens Traditions creep in unawares and has you in error here my freind.

Of course you think there can only be ONE PERIOD of Tribulation all because Jesus stated the greatest troubles ever would happen during the 70th week. But the 2000 year Church Age Tribulation is GREATER as in 2000>7 than the 70th week Tribulation period. We can't limit God's vocabulary.

 

[Revealing Times]

I'm pretty sure it says immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days.

If you try using the scripture EXACTLY like it says you will get the correct outcome. Playing around with the words is as you like to say.........sending down the wrong rabbit hole.

Or interpreting it via using common sense and using the original Greek makes much more sense so you don't want to hear that. Don't get tunnel vision brother.

 

[DavidPT]

IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TROUBLES [BEGIN], the Sun is darkened, the moon is darkened and the stars fall from Heaven, THEN Jesus will Return. So the Tribulation or TROUBLES come upon Israel, the Jews, the Many nations in the region, and much of the world, the first 4 Seals will kill many, then the SUN, MOON and STARS even happens...........THEN Jesus returns.........but the rest of Revelation also happens, this is a Gospel, Jesus isn't supposed to give us a lay by play of the end times, he does that in the book of Revelation !!

The text doesn't agree with you then, which also means Jesus doesn't agree with you either, since He is the one who initially said this.

Though unrelated, the following is a good example of how immediately after should be understood in Matthew 24:29.


Acts 16:10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.



Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


IOW----After the tribulation of those days have been fulfilled, immediately shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

[Douggg]

Of course you think there can only be ONE PERIOD of Tribulation all because Jesus stated the greatest troubles ever would happen during the 70th week. But the 2000 year Church Tribulation is GREATER as in 2000>7 than the 70th week Tribulation period. We can't limit God's vocabulary.

Are you sure that the great tribulation referred to in Revelation 7 is not due to the Abomination of Desolation that Daniel spoke about in Daniel 12? To be unrivaled by times past and never to be exceeded ever again.

Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand :

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Revealing Times]

You Said:"Chapter 7 is in order, even though the 144,000 are sealed, they are not 144,000, they are really 1/3 of the Jews, 12 x 12 x 12 = ALL ISRAEL, so it's probably 2 to 3 million Jews."

As long as you do not read the entire Bible Literally, Historically and Grammatically, we cannot discuss anything. Everything we say will be at odds with each other.

Brother, I have reasons why I do things, I don't just do them. I will walk you through it later, but the book of Revelation is metaphor after metaphor The stars are angels, the locusts are demons, animal beasts are kingdoms, the woman = Israel in Rev. 12 and the Red Dragon = Satan. The seven candlesticks are seven churches. The seven eyes and seven spirits = an omnipresent God. A slain lamb represents Jesus Christ etc. etc..........well you get the picture.

So why do you think a number (144,000) used in like manner in the book of Revelation is odd ? Its not. You can choose to see the book of Revelation as literal if you like, but everyone knows it is not literal, I don't even think you think that its literal in full, you mean the way you see this 144,000 is literal I assume. But we can't pick and choose, we can't be surprised if someone says hey, I think this is metaphoric in nature, because much of Revelation is metaphoric of symbolic in nature.

So why did I come to see the 144,000 as symbolic of Israel as a nation ? Good question. I didn't just come to that conclusion by accident. The first inclination was discovering that the 144,000 supposed "JEWISH PREACHERS" are never called that anywhere in scriptures, nowhere does the bible infer they will spread the gospel, the bible says that an Angel spreads the Gospel.

In Rev. 14 we are shown the 144,000 on Mt. Zion with Jesus, told they are virgins which I think means they have repented and accepted Jesus, etc. etc. etc. then we get this:

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

So nowhere are the 144,000 called preachers of the Gospel, that is a misnomer. When anyone finds it, get back to me, it's not in the bible anywhere, yet they are called 144,000 preachers. So who are they then if they are not preachers I thought to myself !! Let's delve into it I thought, so I did. And I discovered the first place they are mentioned is after the Seals and just before the Trumpet Judgments, and God is telling the Angels to HOLD BACK the Trumpet Judgments (Seas, Earth, Trees) until the 144,000 are SEALED !! Then it hit me, why would God not want to hurt the TREES, SEAS & EARTH until the 144,000 are SEALED/PROTECTED ? That must mean they would be IN DANGER of these coming Judgments, that must mean this is referring to Israel who are Fleeing Judea unto Petra at about this same time.

Thus we get all of the tribes instead of just the Livite Priesthood tribe (we don't get Dan, it seems John understood there was a legend going around that the Anti-Christ would be from the tribe of Dan, so he just left it off, that comes from my studies). We get 12 x 12 x 12 or the Fulness of Israel or ALL ISRAEL, not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation is preserved via those who repent and flee Judea unto Petra. (All 12 tribes are thus represented)

They have to be men on earth or the Trumpet Judgments would not hurt them, but the Angels were ordered to HOLD OFF from bringing those Judgments until these 144,000 were SEALED or PROTECTED, I think this means they had to wait on the Jews to get to Petra and then they could release the Trumpet Judgments, and in Rev. 8 we see the Trumpet Judgments affect the EARTH, SEAS AND TREES !! Do other scriptures in Revelation jibe with this ? Yes, Rev. 18:4

Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

So the Jews Flee Judea to Petra, God orders the Angels in Rev. 7 to hold off on the Trumpet Judgments (Plagues) until the "144,000" are SEALED. And then in Rev. 18:4 we see the exact same thing, God is saying, come out of her MY PEOPLE (Israel) that you don't get hit with the PLAGUES I am about to rain down upon Babylon (the wicked world). The Jews (2/3) who refused to REPENT or COME OUT of Babylon no doubt will perish, va the Anti-Christ or the Plagues of God.

What is the only thing we need to do to get to the point of understanding that the 144,000 is in fact the Jews who are fleeing Judea to Petra ? We just have to put the puzzle/FACTS together to see what makes sense. Are the 144,000 Jewish Preachers as the legend infers or are they actually just Israel fleeing Judea and God protecting them ? I say the evidence suggests the latter, nowhere in all the bible does it say the 144,000 are preaching the Gospel. We get them coming out of all the tribes of Israel as in all 12 tribes of Israel, and thus we get "12,000 from each tribe". So every tribe TIMES 12,000 = All the Jews are represented IN FULL !! 12 x 12 x 12 = Fullness x fullness x fullness.

We know they are not dead Jews who are raised and given a new body in that they need PROTECTION from the coming Trumpet Plagues, so they are human beings who live on earth whom God has to protect. In Rev. 18:4 we see that God calls them to "come out" of Babylon, lest they partake in her sins and her Judgments. Then in Rev. 14 we see them show up on Mt. Zion with Jesus, so Jesus gathers them unto himself as he returns at the Second Coming.

This is why I see the 144,000 as ALL ISRAEL. The 1/3 who come through the fire in Zechariah 13: will be ALL ISRAEL.

Zech. 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[Revealing Times]

I will tell you the GOD said what He meant and Means what He said. When He says He has 144,000 , I believe He has 144,000 and do not change it to fit my worldview or life style. I do not change it to fit my reckoning of what the Bible says.

I have studied the book of Revelation for over 30 years brother, it is a GIANT CODE BOOK and the Old Testament is what we have to use to understand the "CODE". We understand the significance of numbers by reading the Old Testament, 7 stands for God and fullness as in 7 Spirits/7 Eyes,. The number 12 stands for fullness, 8 stands for new beginnings, 3 stands for the triplicate of God, whenever it's used it usually shows things in threes, just like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, not always, but many times. 6 is the number of Mankind, etc. etc.

God speaks of many things in the book of Revelation in metaphoric terms, but it also has a "LITERAL MEANING" almost always, thus it means something in code. We just have to figure out what it means.

If you read it the Literal way, everything falls into place without having to remove or add anything. In Rev. there are allusions and symbols to be sure but everyone of them is explained by the book itself. This is true at other places in the BIBLE especially the OT. The Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament and the New Testament is concealed in the Old Testament. It is simple as that.

If you read everything in Revelation as literal you would go crazy. You want certain things to be LITERAL if it fits your understandings, and other things in Revelation are OK to not be taken literal, that is not the way it works brother. Revelation has to be understood in a unique way, God meant it that way, that is why He encoded it.