Day of the Lord

[Douggg]

YOu cannot prove that by scripture: you can only guess with no basis. It is a poor guess. The martyrs have been told they must wait for the final martyr before judgment comes. In Revelation judgment begins at the 6th seal - or if you prefer, the 7th seal. The rapture then will come just before that.

Again there is no hint whatsoever that this great crowd has been martyred.

The great crowd would include the martyrs, but not be limited to the martyrs. The point is that all of them come out of the great tribulation.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Yes, what you suggested is just MORE imagination.

Lol, come on man. If you're going to be totally and ridiculously wrong.............do it right.
Follow it up with......Any attempt to change Johns order of Revelation will be proven wrong.

Then hit him with a video.

So you think he is wrong.........even though we see Jesus coming at the end of Rev 16 and the same coming at the end of Rev 19. And if you had a clue you would realize that the unwritten thunders of Rev 11 would likely have the same coming.

 

[iamlamad]

Rev 16:15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
Rev 16:16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!"
Rev 16:18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.
(What does the greatest earthquake in history do to this planet?)
Rev 16:19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
(What happens to this planet if every island moves, and the mountains are destroyed?)
Rev 16:21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.

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So? Show me the word "coming" in this passage of scripture. Note carefully that verse 15 -where "coming" is included - is prophetic - showing a coming in the future. It is a true prophecy: He WILL come - as shown in chapter 19. In other words, we cannot prove from this verse, that He actually comes in this chapter. This is a book of prophecy: it should not be a surprise then that there is verses of prophecy in it.

 

[iamlamad]

Lol, come on man. If you're going to be totally and ridiculously wrong.............do it right.
Follow it up with......Any attempt to change Johns order of Revelation will be proven wrong.

Then hit him with a video.

So you think he is wrong.........even though we see Jesus coming at the end of Rev 16 and the same coming at the end of Rev 19. And if you had a clue you would realize that the unwritten thunders of Rev 11 would likely have the same coming.

Ha ha ha! YOU did it again - made me laugh! Yes, indeed, I missed a chance for a video! My mistake.
How wrong of me to look for the word "coming" such as I find in 1 thes 4. Or at lease words that SHOW a coming, such as in Rev. 19.

The truth is, people IMAGINE a coming when there is none. This is just one of many examples. Another example is a coming at the 6th seal. When God is really coming, There will be WORDS that say coming or words that show a coming.

 

[iamlamad]

The great crowd would include the martyrs, but not be limited to the martyrs. The point is that all of them come out of the great tribulation.

Yes, of course the raptured church will include the dead in Christ - both those that die a normal death and those that were martyred. Good point. And at the time of the rapture, people will be being martyred just because they love Jesus.

 

[iamlamad]

Well, Revelation 16:15-16 is at Jesus's Second Coming. It is not the timing rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonian4:15-18, however.

I disagree: Jesus is NOT COMING on the 1260th day, or everyone would know the day - and He said no one would know the day. The events of chapters 17 and 18 must come after the end of the trib in chapter 16 and before His coming in chapter 19. In fact, the first events of chapter 19 will also happen before He comes: the marriage and supper.

 

[BABerean2]

So? Show me the word "coming" in this passage of scripture. Note carefully that verse 15 -where "coming" is included - is prophetic - showing a coming in the future. It is a true prophecy: He WILL come - as shown in chapter 19. In other words, we cannot prove from this verse, that He actually comes in this chapter. This is a book of prophecy: it should not be a surprise then that there is verses of prophecy in it.

First you say the Book of Revelation is in perfect chronological order, and then when faced with a passage that proves you wrong you claim it is "prophecy".

If you cannot see the word "coming" in Revelation 16:15, you need to get your eyes checked for new reading glasses.

Why did you ignore the mountains being destroyed in the passage?

Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

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[iamlamad]

First you say the Book of Revelation is in perfect chronological order, and then when faced with a passage that proves you wrong you claim it is "prophecy".

If you cannot see the word "coming" in Revelation 16:15, you need to get your eyes checked for new reading glasses.

Why did you ignore the mountains being destroyed in the passage?

Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

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I see it, but I also know it is prophecy. He does not come at the time of that verse. Therefore it IS prophecy. What about the mountains? Just because there is a great earthquake does not mean Jesus came. We all know the earth shakes or quakes so violently the mountains sink down into the earth. Still, NO COMING.

 

[BABerean2]

I see it, but I also know it is prophecy. He does not come at the time of that verse. Therefore it IS prophecy. What about the mountains? Just because there is a great earthquake does not mean Jesus came. We all know the earth shakes or quakes so violently the mountains sink down into the earth. Still, NO COMING.

Hopefully, you do understand that both Revelation 16:15-20, and Revelation 19 are prophecy, since neither of them has happened yet.

The word "coming" is found in Revelation 16:15, but it does not work for your doctrine, so you ignore it.

Now I see how you make your viewpoint work, and so does everyone else on this thread.

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[iamlamad]

Hopefully, you do understand that both Revelation 16:15-20, and Revelation 19 are prophecy, since neither of them has happened yet.

The word "coming" is found in Revelation 16:15, but it does not work for your doctrine, so you ignore it.

Now I see how you make your viewpoint work, and so does everyone else on this thread.

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On the other hand, this verse mentions "coming" so you imagine He will come right then, just before the 7th vial that ends the week. So where are the words that describe this end of the week coming? I say the description is found in chapter 19.

 

[BABerean2]

On the other hand, this verse mentions "coming" so you imagine He will come right then, just before the 7th vial that ends the week. So where are the words that describe this end of the week coming? I say the description is found in chapter 19.

All manmade doctrines are exposed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

The verse below is an excellent example.

Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

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[iamlamad]

All manmade doctrines are exposed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

The verse below is an excellent example.

Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

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You imagine that proves a coming. Meanwhile, the rest of the world knows better.

Allow me to assist: THIS is a coming:

Rev. 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

See how actual WORDS describe an actual coming?

Here is another example:

1 Thes. 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice the words that TELL US He is coming: read again the bolded words above.

See now how we can tell a REAL "coming?"

Quit using your imagination and just read and understand the word of God. It is a simple concept. No need for any videos, or photos: just the word of God correctly divided and understood.

 

[BABerean2]

Notice the words that TELL US He is coming: read again the bolded words above.

See now how we can tell a REAL "coming?"

Now I see.

The word "coming" has to be present for it to be a "REAL" "coming", like in the passage found below.

Rev 16:15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
Rev 16:16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!"
Rev 16:18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.
Rev 16:19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

.

 

[iamlamad]

Now I see.

The word "coming" has to be present for it to be a "REAL" "coming", like in the passage found below.

Rev 16:15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
Rev 16:16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!"
Rev 16:18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.
Rev 16:19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
Rev 16:20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Exactly! NO WORDS there describe a real coming. The words that DO describe a real coming are found in chapter 19. The events of chapters 17 & 18 will take place between the 7th vial that finished the 70th week and His REAL coming as shown in chapter 19. And just as is written, the marriage and supper will take place IN HEAVEN before He comes to earth.

 

[BABerean2]

The events of chapters 17 & 18 will take place between the 7th vial that finished the 70th week

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews for a period of about 7 years before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the first century.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

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[ItIsFinished!]

The 70th of week of Daniel has clearly not come to pass .

 

[ItIsFinished!]

I find it quite strange that you find the truth funny .

 

[iamlamad]

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews for a period of about 7 years before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the first century.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

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That is a very good imagination. How slack of God not to include any dates so we could really see the 1260 days back then. No, the truth is, you are totally wrong and the 70th week is FUTURE. That would be a good word for you to learn.

 

[BABerean2]

That is a very good imagination. How slack of God not to include any dates so we could really see the 1260 days back then. No, the truth is, you are totally wrong and the 70th week is FUTURE. That would be a good word for you to learn.

The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

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[iamlamad]

The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.

All this tells us is that they did not understand much about this prophecy.