Day of the Lord

[iamlamad]

If there is anything you can teach me, I will be happy to learn. However, I already understand why you are incorrect regarding this as I used to believe what you did. Then I decided to put things where God says they go and quit taking a hammer and pounding square pegs into round holes.

What an amazing imagination you have! That is all you do! (round pegs in square holes and square pegs in round holes. But you have lots of holes to work with: your theories are FULL of holes. Your theory requires an almost complete rewrite of Revelation to fit!

 

[Douggg]

The two witnesses show up suddenly after the 42 months of trampling start - and just 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint or the 1260th day. They testify for 1260 days which takes them to just 3 1/2 days from the end. They are killed and lay dead those 3 1/2 days and are resurrected on the last day of the week - at the 7th vial.

When the two witnesses are killed, the people of the earth celebrate and exchange presents. Revelation 11:10. When the earth is blue. Near the end of the first 1260 days, but still in the first half.

Differently, near the end of the 7 years, on brown earth, the waters turned to blood, and posioned, and all the green grass dead and brown, and the world full of disease and sickness, and the landscape of dead and rotting bodies - the kings of the earth will be gathering their armies, all drawn into the middle east, will be making ready at Armageddon to make war of Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

But that verse is in regards to escape the Day of the Lord beginning years - not to the world saying peace and safety preceding it. It is not for certain, but the rapture may not take place until some time in the first half, before the Antichrist reveals himself to be the man of sin - triggering the Day of the Lord beginning years..

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[Revealing Times]

Revelation is for the most part in Chronological order. This automatically throws out your assumptions. Daniel's 70th week is multiple fold. The Primary reason is to bring a, remnant of Israel to their knees thus finally recognizing the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah. The second is to punish mankind for his sins against GOD.

If you will look to Daniel 9:24, the summary of why this 70weeks happen is there.

Rev. is in not in Chronological Order as per how it is written, not even close. There is an ORDER if we understand that order, but it is not actually in Chronological Order in the book.

1.) Rev. 1-3 is the Church Age.
2.) Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church/Bride in Heaven before Jesus opens the Seals.
3.) Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9 and 15&16 is REAL TIME PLAGUES via the Seals, Trumpets and Vials of God.
4.) Rev. 20, 21 and 22 ends the Book of Revelation, we have the Judgment Seat, the Hereafter and the New Jerusalem. THAT IS THE ORDER OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19 are Parenthetical Citations...set-a-side chapters that belong in the other chapters as per the Chronological timing, but they were important enough to have a detailed account in a singled out chapter all unto themselves. For instance:

Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry. They show up BEFORE the DOTL, which comes upon us when the First Seal is opened.

Rev. 12 is about Israel Fleeing Judea for 1260 Days and Satan being cast out of Heaven at this point in time. It of course starts at the 1260 EVENT, or in chapter 6 when the First Seal is opened.

Rev. 13 also starts at the 1260 EVENT, thus the Beast Arising out of the Sea means he reemerges after being Mortally Wounded by the Church for nigh 2000 years. Thus he Conquers Jerusalem.

Rev. 14 is all about the Two Harvests. In verse 14 Jesus Raptures the Church from on a cloud. Later on in ch. 14 an Angel thrusts in his sickle to Harvest the Wicked at Armageddon. (7 Years)

Rev. 17 starts with the First Seal being opened (Rev. 6) also, its the Anti-Christ/Beast destroying the Harlot via his 10 Kings (Rev. 17:16) or ALL FALSE RELIGION, so he can be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD, he will destroy Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and ALL RELIGIONS, the False Prophet oversees this task no doubt. He's the BEAST over Religion !! The Anti-Christ BEASTS over Gov.

Rev. 18 is Babylon (Whole World) being hit by the Plagues of God, the Seals, Trumpets and Vials of God, nothing more, nothing less, it of course starts with the First Seal being opened in Rev. ch. 6.

Rev. 19 covers a 7 year period like Rev. 14. Its the Church in Heaven before she Marries Jesus, it says shes about to marry Jesus, then it shows the Bride returning to earth with Jesus to destroy THE BEAST and his Armies at Armageddon, which is the Marriage Supper in earth.

Dan. 12 fits perfectly with that order, the AoD happens at the 1290, Israel FLEES and is CHASED by the Beast and Satan, God thus protects them in Petra for 1260 Days. Thus the AoD happens 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem.

The Scriptures actually tells us Israel repent BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD...Malachi 4:5-6. I have a blog about the 70th Week brother. It is to get Israel to Repent, and that is what they do, just as Malachi 4:5-6 says BEFORE the DOTL not after.

 

[Revealing Times]

NO, your trying to reason what GOD says to your views. Read it literally and it says 1260 DAYS, 42 months,(time,times and half a time) are all the same. There is no need to allegorize
1260 or any other number. They are just that numbers, literal numbers

You just can't grasp it, that is on you, or maybe it's not meant for you to understand, but there is no reason to throw shade on something that its evident you don't get.

You seemingly can't grasp the 1260 is 1260 days away from the Second Coming. That is what is going to END THESE WONDERS...What do you think is going to end the Wonders Daniel was shown? It says there will be 1260 days from the time the Holy people power is SCATTERED (or from the time they are Conquered) until these WONDERS END...or the Second Coming. It's not that difficult really. It seems you are stuck on the 1260, time, times and half as covering everything that is being spoken about, even the 1290 and 1335, you actually think Jesus is telling them about things going on into the Millennium, 1290 days later and 1335 days later when that is nonsensical, the AoD has to happen BEFORE THE JEWS FLEE Judea....so your idea is invalid brother. Your thesis doesn't fit, I know, I tried every angle already, that's what I do.

The 1290 is the AoD, not when the holy people's power is scattered !! Daniel asked him again when will these things end. Jesus thus tells him about a DIFFERENT EVENT, the AoD, why would Jesus describe again the same event ? He wouldn't. The man in linen is Jesus. He had already told Daniel to go his way, but Daniel wanted more info. So Jesus gave him the info, but not so as he could understand, nor anyone could understand, until he revealed it. The AoD doesn't happen at the 1260, that is when the Jews are Conquered, the AoD is a sign for the Jews to Flee Judea, it happens just before they are Conquered. In Rev. 13 we see its the False Prophet that sets up the AoD, not the Anti-Christ.

Dan. 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The AoD is likewise 1290 days before the end...WHAT DANIEL ASKED !! In verse 8. Just like verse 7 was 1260 days until THE END or Second Coming.

Why do you add words to the LORDs Book. He did not say 1290 was in the millennium. NOT AT ALL. You need to read Rev 22:18-19...before you get yourself in too deep to get out.

I know that....I am saying that must be what you are saying.

 

[Revealing Times]

Let me word it another way so you might catch on. Do you see anything that tells you Jesus has set up his kingdom on earth? Do you see anything that tells you that Armageddon has occurred? No, you see the cosmic signs of Rev 6. You see Paul's gathering from the EARTH and Heaven.

Matt. 24:29-31 is the Second Coming, we know this because of the SIGNS that have already happened, only THAT GENERATION that sees all of the signs will see Jesus' Second Coming, what do you think the Fig Tree parable is about ?

Well, actually, I understand this. But I also understand that the 70th week is over at the end of the tribulation, and most don't get that, making communication almost impossible. That said, you should then be able to understand that the vials are just a different view of the trumpets. So this verse shouldn't be a roadblock to your understanding of Revelation
Rev 15
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

The Seals, Trumpets and Vials all have a different timing. The LAST THREE WOES are the 5th Trumpet, the 6th Trumpet and the 7th Trumpet, thus the last Trumpet is ALL SEVEN Vials combined. So if that is what you meant I agree.

But they still have a Unique timeframe unto themselves.

Or maybe you don't understand that none of the events that that Metaphor represents are occurring in Matthew 24. Matthew 24 is not when Armageddon occurs and the kingdom is set up on earth..........it is a coming of Christ to gather the elect from earth (the twelve tribes) and from heaven (the church).

What do you think THE CARCASS means in verse 28 ? That is Armageddon. What do you think verse 24 means? That is about the False Prophet and Anti-Christ. Just Because Armageddon is not detailed doesn't mean it hasn't happened, Jesus was telling them about the Tribulation and Second Coming. The book of Revelation would come later.

Well, I certainly understand Rev 4 and 5 with the church being caught up to heaven in the secret rapture in Rev 4. It will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. I also understand the coming of Jesus in Rev 6 and Matt 24 where He comes for the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth that have gone through the tribulation. It will be like the days of Lot where the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction comes.

Well you see the Rapture timing, but for some reason you think Jesus returns in Rev. ch. 6, that is just not the case brother. All Israel means the 12 Tribes are in Israel, they were never actually lost. You see, just like the Livite Tribe moved from the Wicked Northern Kingdom to Juda , likewise some people who loved wickedness moved north, and men of all the tribes who despised evil, moved south. So the SEED was never actually lost, it was just dispersed the world over like the Jews were.

Oh, I get it alright, and quite frankly I am in shock that you get it. So if you get that, how come you don't see that very event of Satan being cast out of heaven in Revelation 6.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

I do get it, but there is still 1260 Days to go brother after this event, or close to 1260 days. I think you make the same mistake I see a lot of people make, you seem to think the Seals, Trumpets and Vials are all the SAME STORY told in three separate ways, but they are ALL the exact same timing, and I know the thesis behind this, but its off kilter brother. When we understand the Chronological Order of the book of Revelation, we can then understand it all.

The church is reptured pre trib. The seals are opened. The twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth go through the tribulation. They become jealous and seek the Messiah when they realize that God has come for the unnatural branch's. The twelve tribes are raptured post trib.....Matt 24 and Rev 6. It is the remnant of the Nation of Israel that goes through the vials 1260 days in protection.

The Church is RAPTURED Jews and Gentiles alike. The Saints of Old are raised at the END when Jesus Returns to save Israel in Petra from the Beast and his Armies, we the Church, return with him. The Jews REPENT 75 DAYS before the First Seal is opened, then they Flee 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, when the False Prophet places the AoD in the Temple.

Why would you conclude that I don't understand that Matt 24:36-51 is the rapture of the church as I certainly understand that. What you don't understand is that Matt 24:30-31 is not when Christ returns to set up his kingdom.........it is when He comes to gather his elect from heaven (the church) and earth (the twelve tribes)

Matt 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here is another view of the same event. You'll see the gathering from earth and heaven.
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

So you are a Pre-tribulation guy who just confuses the Second Coming. We are gathered from the four corners of Heaven, and then earth when Jesus RETURNS. It is the Second Coming, brother. You confuse the Tribulation it seems as a SEPARATE EVENT, its not, it last for 1260 days, the same time as God's Wrath. That is why the Jews MUST HIDE for 1260 days brother. RETHINK IT, Because you see a lot of things correctly. The book of Revelation's ORDER throws a lot of people off, read my post above (POST 144), I give the Chronological Order of Revelation.

LOL. It just cracks me up when I hear comments like this. When I read your posts about what you think I believe, you are way off. You should probably find out what I believe before you make these types of comments as you will find that the things that I say are different than you have heard before. Revelation is full of roadblocks because God has made things confusing. He didn't just put 2300 evening and mornings for no reason. It give you two paths to take. To make things fit in the perceived timeline most must choose 1150 days. It's just like most must choose that the daily sacrifice is taken away at the same time that the abomination of desolation is set up, even though it tells us there will be 1290 days. They can't split the events............because it doesn't fit in their timeline.

I think THE DAILY (Sacrifice was added by the KJV in Daniel) being TAKEN AWAY is the False Prophet not letting the 1/3 of Jewish Israelis who repented, worship Jesus Christ in the Temple of God. Revelation is easy to me, I see it all for what it is.

Daniel 8:14 is about 1150 days, so if you try and TIMES it by 2300, you are on the wrong trail to start with, you will wind up in a rabbit hole. That's my point. It is about 2300 EVENING and MORNING SACRIFICES, or 1150 days.

The 1290 doesn't happen at the 1260, they are not the SAME EVENT. One is the False Prophet (1290) setting up the IMAGE in the Temple. The other is the BEAST Conquering the Holy Peoples and thus scattering them for 1260 days. So I understand they are different events, and the 1335 is the Two-witnesses showing up.

I think you have made a good point here. There are translation problems........such as Lucifer in Isa 14. That is not Lucifer being talked about there.

So out of all this..........since you know that the stars falling from heaven in Matt 24 is Satan being cast to the earth, you should be able to see the very same event in Rev 6. This knowledge should completely change your understanding and timeline. There are a bunch of roadblocks the you must get past to figure out what is really going on.........but you need to start with that ABSOLUTE.

In Rev. 12 the Red Dragon (Satan) chases the Woman (Israel) into the Wilderness for 1260 days. So Satan is CAST OUT at about the Midway point of the 70th Week. Thus there is 1260 days left after he is cast out.

God Bless brother....

 

[BABerean2]

All Israel means the 12 Tribes are in Israel, they were never actually lost. You see, just like the Livite Tribe moved from the Wicked Northern Kingdom to Juda , likewise some people who loved wickedness moved north, and men of all the tribes who despised evil, moved south. So the SEED was never actually lost.

Who is James addressing below?

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

 

[Choose Wisely]

But that verse is in regards to escape the Day of the Lord beginning years - not to the world saying peace and safety preceding it.

The Day of the Lord does not begin until the 6th seal. The tribulation begins when the 1st seal is opened which will likely start with a covenant being confirmed. The Church will escape the hour of temptation

Rev 3
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The world that does not escape the wars, famines and pestilence will think that everything is great when the tribulation of the those days is over. It is then that they will be cast into the wrath of God. The believers that are on earth at that time......those that have not been hunted down and killed......will know what is going on. The Day of the Lord will not take them unaware.........they are told to look up, their redemption draws nigh. There will be a gathering from the earth (twelve tribes) and from heaven (the church).

The church is in heaven as they went there in the pretrib rapture......before the seals were opened. They are the GOODMAN that will not know when the master will come. After the church is gone............those believers that go through the tribulation will not be unaware when Jesus is coming for the gathering and the start of the wrath of God. These believers are of the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth.

It is not for certain, but the rapture may not take place until some time in the first half, before the Antichrist reveals himself to be the man of sin - triggering the Day of the Lord beginning years..

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The pre tribulation rapture will happen before any seals are opened. When the church is raptured the world will go into chaos. That's when all hell breaks loose with the rider on the white horse going forth conquering and to conquer. The rider will be given the stephanos crown, the symbol of the United Nations. Then the other seals follow.......war, famine, pestilence..........the same thing you see in Jesus description of end times in Matt 24. The day of the Lord does not happen until the sixth seal...........which happens immediately after the tribulation of those days. The man of sin does not trigger the Day of the Lord. The coming of Jesus and the gathering from heaven and earth triggers the Day of the Lord. This is the coming that you see in Rev 6 when the kings of the earth say to the mountains to fall on us and hide us from the face of Him that sits on the throne. That's why you have a great multitude in Rev 7.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Matt. 24:29-31 is the Second Coming, we know this because of the SIGNS that have already happened, only THAT GENERATION that sees all of the signs will see Jesus' Second Coming, what do you think the Fig Tree parable is about ?

Matt 24:29-31 is certainly a coming of Jesus when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. It is a gathering from heaven and earth. Jesus has not come for Armageddon and to set up his kingdom, He has come to gather the believers and cast the world into the wrath of God.

As for the fig tree........
Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of Israel as the first ripe in the fig tree at her first time. Meaning God saw the fathers of Israel as the 1st fruits of the first harvest. The fig tree has two harvest. The breba crop and the main harvest. God had intended for Israel to be the first harvest, but they served other Gods. Instead, the Gentiles will be the 1st harvest.....the church. It will be like the days of Noah......Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood.

But God will not forget about His people. After the church is gone.....pretrib, there will be 12,000 from each tribe that become the first fruits of the second harvest. They are seen in heaven in Rev 14. The twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth go through the tribulaiton and will be very aware of the coming of Jesus and the Day of the Lord. It will be like the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom, destruction came. The destruction if being cast into the wrath of God.

The nation of Israel........those that flee as instructed when the abomination of desolation is set up........1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away........are the remnant that go through the wrath of God....in protection.

 

[DavidPT]

The 6th seal is not the beginning of the Day of the Lord because right before the day of the Lord begins the world will be saying "peace and safety". 1Thessalonians5:2-3.

Definitely not the case at the time of the 6th seal.

Understanding of the Day of the Lord, it is necessary to take all the references to the Day of the Lord throughout the bible and put the different segments about the Day of the Lord in order.

The 70th week begins with the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.

The great tribulation begins with the Abomination of Desolation in a holy place.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

I can see them saying peace and safety during this time.

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

I can't see them saying peace and safety during this time though. So I tend to think there are two 3.5 years periods where the 2nd follows the first. And that Revelation 11:8-10 is fulfilled at the end the 2nd 3.5 year period, the 42 month reign of the beast. That would place the DOTL involving the 7th trumpet.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Which seems to lead to the 7 vials of wrath. Maybe that's why this verse says---and thy wrath is come---and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The 7 vials of wrath would be the DOTL and meaning the 6th seal.

Whether I am right about any or all of this, who knows, yet it is currently how I'm viewing this, right or wrong. So I would have to disagree that the 6th seal is not the beginning of the DOTL, since I tend to think it is myself. The 6th seal also seems to parallel Matthew 24:29.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The trib of those days are obviously meaning the 42 month reign of the beast. This verse places the 42 month reign of the beast already fulfilled and in the past when it is time for the 6th seal events. So it looks like to me there is a period of time after the the 42 month reign of the beast but prior to the 2nd coming. What seems to fit in that period would be the vials of wrath. How can the vials of wrath not involve the DOTL?

 

[Choose Wisely]

The Seals, Trumpets and Vials all have a different timing. The LAST THREE WOES are the 5th Trumpet, the 6th Trumpet and the 7th Trumpet, thus the last Trumpet is ALL SEVEN Vials combined. So if that is what you meant I agree.

No, that's not what I meant. The vials are just a different view of the trumpets. When we look at the end of Rev 14 we see the same gathering that is the great multitude of Rev 7. Then we see those not taken to the clouds cast into the wrath of God. How is it that they were not in wrath already?

Well you see the Rapture timing, but for some reason you think Jesus returns in Rev. ch. 6, that is just not the case brother. All Israel means the 12 Tribes are in Israel, they were never actually lost. You see, just like the Livite Tribe moved from the Wicked Northern Kingdom to Juda , likewise some people who loved wickedness moved north, and men of all the tribes who despised evil, moved south. So the SEED was never actually lost.

Think of all the people that you find out are Jewish. You hear it all the time. They know they are Jewish. But that does not mean they are all of the tribe of Judah....it means they are of the 12 tribes.......Gods chosen people. They are blind to the Messiah. After the church is gone, they will realize that Jesus is the Messiah. The scales will come off their eyes. The coming of Jesus that you see in Matt 24 is the time of their harvest. It is also the time the world will be cast into the wrath of God.

I do get it, but there is still 1260 Days to go brother after this event, or close to 1260 days. I think you make the same mistake I see a lot of people make, you seem to think the Seals, Trumpets and Vials are all the SAME STORY told in three separate ways, but they are ALL the exact same timing, and I know the thesis behind this, but its off kilter brother. When we understand the Chronological Order of the book of Revelation, we can then understand it all.

The seals, trumpets and vials are not the same story. However, the trumpets and vials are a different view of the same story.

The Church is RAPTURED Jews and Gentiles alike. The Saints of Old are raised at the END when Jesus Returns to save Israel on Petra from the Beast and his Armies, we the Church returns with him. They REPENT 75 DAYS before the First Seal is opened, then they Flee 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, when the False Prophet places the AoD in the Temple.

I used to think that too.

So you are a Pre-tribulation guy who just confuses the Second Coming. We are gathered from the four corners of Heaven, and then earth when Jesus RETURNS. It is the Second Coming, brother. Yu confuse the Tribulation it seems as a SEPARATE EVENT, its not, it last for 1260 days, the same time as God's Wrath. That is why the Jews MUST HIDE for 1260 days brother. RETHINK IT, Because you see a lot of things correctly. The book of Revelation's ORDER throws a lot of people off, read my post above (POST 144), I give the Chronological Order of Revelation.

I used to think the same, but there was too many reasons that it was wrong. I believe in the pre tribulation rapture of the church....summer in nigh....the wheat harvest. I believe the dead in Christ are the barley harvest and I believe that God will remove the scales from the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth......fall fruit harvest. Seed time and harvest.

So what is really confusing me......if you understand that the stars falling from heaven in Matt 24 are Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven how do you not see the same angels and Satan being cast to the earth in Rev 6. How many times does Satan get cast out of heaven?

I know that you can watch any guy on TV and he will tell you that the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is the second coming when Armageddon happens and Jesus puts his foot on the Mount of Olives. However, that's just wrong. Put the pieces where God says they go and then figure out why your timeline won't work. Don't shoe horn yourself with a perceived timeline and disregard where God says the pieces go.
If you read what Jesus says in Matt 24 about end times, it will line up perfectly with what John says in Rev 6. From false christs, to wars, to famines, to pestilence, to martyrs, to the signs of His coming, the the gathering of the great multitude. Jesus and John agree. Start your time line with this information. The tribulation is over, and then the wrath of God begins.
Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

[Bladerunner]

Rev. is in not in Chronological Order as per how it is written, not even close. There is an ORDER if we understand that order, but it is not actually in Chronological Order in the book.

1.) Rev. 1-3 is the Church Age.
2.) Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church/Bride in Heaven before Jesus opens the Seals.
3.) Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9 and 15&16 is REAL TIME PLAGUES via the Seals, Trumpets and Vials of God.
4.) Rev. 20, 21 and 22 ends the Book of Revelation, we have the Judgment Seat, the Hereafter and the New Jerusalem. THAT IS THE ORDER OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19 are Parenthetical Citations...set-a-side chapters that belong in the other chapters as per the Chronological timing, but they were important enough to have a detailed account in a singled out chapter all unto themselves. For instance:

Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry. They show up BEFORE the DOTL, which comes upon us when the First Seal is opened.

Rev. 12 is about Israel Fleeing Judea for 1260 Days and Satan being cast out of Heaven at this point in time. It of course starts at the 1260 EVENT, or in chapter 6 when the First Seal is opened.

Rev. 13 also starts at the 1260 EVENT, thus the Beast Arising out of the Sea means he reemerges after being Mortally Wounded by the Church for nigh 2000 years. Thus he Conquers Jerusalem.

Rev. 14 is all about the Two Harvests. In verse 14 Jesus Raptures the Church from on a cloud. Later on in ch. 14 an Angel thrusts in his sickle to Harvest the Wicked at Armageddon. (7 Years)

Rev. 17 starts with the First Seal being opened (Rev. 6) also, its the Anti-Christ/Beast destroying the Harlot via his 10 Kings (Rev. 17:16) or ALL FALSE RELIGION, so he can be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD, he will destroy Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and ALL RELIGIONS, the False Prophet oversees this task no doubt. He's the BEAST over Religion !! The Anti-Christ BEASTS over Gov.

Rev. 18 is Babylon (Whole World) being hit by the Plagues of God, the Seals, Trumpets and Vials of God, nothing more, nothing less, it of course starts with the First Seal being opened in Rev. ch. 6.

Rev. 19 covers a 7 year period like Rev. 14. Its the Church in Heaven before she Marries Jesus, it says shes about to marry Jesus, then it shows the Bride returning to earth with Jesus to destroy THE BEAST and his Armies at Armageddon, which is the Marriage Supper in earth.

Dan. 12 fits perfectly with that order, the AoD happens at the 1260, Israel FLEES and is CHASED by the Beast and Satan, God thus protects them in Petra for 1260 Days. Thus the AoD happens 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem.

The Scriptures actually tells us Israel repent BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD...Malachi 4:5-6. I have a blog about the 70th Week brother. It is to get Israel to Repent, and that is what they do, just as Malachi 4:5-6 says BEFORE the DOTL not after.

I do not include 17,18, 19 as Parenthetical Citations. As I stated the last PC is only 2 verses. I also believe the Chapter 7 should be in front of chapter 6. Why---the 1st verse of chapter 7.

Please keep in mind what I said. "Revelation is for the most part in Chronological order." If we take out chapters 7, 10-14 and 2 more verses and the rest is Chronological, is that not the definition of "For the MOST PART"

You might also find that Isaiah is a group of Revelation prophecies that are not in order. Revelation gives them order.

It appears your interpretation of Revelation is totality different from my view of this book.

It is OK. we can agree to disagree.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

You just can't grasp it, that is on you, or maybe it's not meant for you to understand, but there is no reason to throw shade on something that its evident you don't get.

You seemingly can't grasp the 1260 is 1260 days away from the Second Coming. That is what is going to END THESE WONDERS...What do you think is going to end the Wonders Daniel was shown? It says there will be 1260 days from the time the Holy people power is SCATTERED (or from the time they are Conquered) until these WONDERS END...or the Second Coming. It's not that difficult really. It seems you are stuck on the 1260, time, times and half as covering everything that is being spoken about, even the 1290 and 1335, you actually think Jesus is telling then bout things going on into the Millennium, 1290 days later and 1335 days later when that is nonsensical, the AoD has to happen BEFORE THE JEWS FLEE Judea....so your idea is invalid brother. You thesis doesn't fit, I know, I tried every angle already, that's what I do.

The 1290 is the AoD, not when the holy people's power is scattered !! Daniel asked him again when will these things end. Jesus thus tells him about a DIFFERENT EVENT, the AoD, why would Jesus describe again the same event ? He wouldn't. The man in linen is Jesus. He had already told Daniel to go his way, but Daniel wanted more info. So Jesus gave him the info, but no so as he could understand, nor anyone could understand, until he revealed it. The AoD doesn't happen at the 1260, that is when the Jews are Conquered, the AoD is a sign for the Jews to Flee Judea, it happens before they are Conquered. In Rev. 13 we see its the False Prophet that sets up the AoD, not the Anti-Christ.

Dan. 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The AoD is likewise 1290 days before the end...WHAT DANIEL ASKED !! In verse 8. Just like verse 7 was 1260 days until THE END or Second Coming.



I know that....I am saying that must be what you are saying.

It is OK, we can agree to disagree.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

No, that's not what I meant. The vials are just a different view of the trumpets. When we look at the end of Rev 14 we see the same gathering that is the great multitude of Rev 7. Then we see those not taken to the clouds cast into the wrath of God. How is it that they were not in wrath already?



Think of all the people that you find out are Jewish. You hear it all the time. They know they are Jewish. But that does not mean they are all of the tribe of Judah....it means they are of the 12 tribes.......Gods chosen people. They are blind to the Messiah. After the church is gone, they will realize that Jesus is the Messiah. The scales will come off their eyes. The coming of Jesus that you see in Matt 24 is the time of their harvest. It is also the time the world will be cast into the wrath of God.


The seals, trumpets and vials are not the same story. However, the trumpets and vials are a different view of the same story.


I used to think that too.

I used to think the same, but there was too many reasons that it was wrong. I believe in the pre tribulation rapture of the church....summer in nigh....the wheat harvest. I believe the dead in Christ are the barley harvest and I believe that God will remove the scales from the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth......fall fruit harvest. Seed time and harvest.

So what is really confusing me......if you understand that the stars falling from heaven in Matt 24 are Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven how do you not see the same angels and Satan being cast to the earth in Rev 6. How many times does Satan get cast out of heaven?

I know that you can watch any guy on TV and he will tell you that the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is the second coming when Armageddon happens and Jesus puts his foot on the Mount of Olives. However, that's just wrong. Put the pieces where God says they go and then figure out why your timeline won't work. Don't shoe horn yourself with a perceived timeline and disregard where God says the pieces go.
If you read what Jesus says in Matt 24 about end times, it will line up perfectly with what John says in Rev 6. From false christs, to wars, to famines, to pestilence, to martyrs, to the signs of His coming, the the gathering of the great multitude. Jesus and John agree. Start your time line with this information. The tribulation is over, and then the wrath of God begins.
Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The trumpets and vials re totally different from one another. NOT even CLOSE!

BY the way "the Sun be darkened" is int he Bible 39 times and spread out over 5 different books beyond Revelation.

Your grasping at straws,, Read it literally, Historically and grammatically.

Blade

 

[Choose Wisely]

The trumpets and vials re totally different from one another. NOT even CLOSE!

BY the way "the Sun be darkened" is int he Bible 39 times and spread out over 5 different books beyond Revelation.

Your grasping at straws,, Read it literally, Historically and grammatically.

Blade

39 times...hmmm. Did you check to see how many are referring to the same event?

 

[keras]

I do not include 17,18, 19 as Parenthetical Citations. As I stated the last PC is only 2 verses. I also believe the Chapter 7 should be in front of chapter 6. Why---the 1st verse of chapter 7.

Please keep in mind what I said. "Revelation is for the most part in Chronological order." If we take out chapters 7, 10-14 and 2 more verses and the rest is Chronological, is that not the definition of "For the MOST PART"

You might also find that Isaiah is a group of Revelation prophecies that are not in order. Revelation gives them order. Blade

I gave you a like on this, with the exception of your idea to shuffle Revelation 6 and 7. This idea is not right, as the Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event we can expect, then follows the selection of the 144k from the great multitude if faithful Christians. Who have passed thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal and proved their faith in the Lord to protect and save them.
They are all of God's holy people, as seen later; in the holy Land, by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7

I fully agree that the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials are each separate events.

 

[Douggg]

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

I can see them saying peace and safety during this time.

For 3 1/2 days?

 

[Douggg]

The trumpets and vials re totally different from one another. NOT even CLOSE!

There are some similarities between some of the trumpets and some of the vials.

 

[keras]

There are some similarities between some of the trumpets and some of the vials.

Right. But they are different events, that happen in the sequence given.

The DNA of monkeys and humans is 99%+/- the same. Viva la differance!

 

[Bladerunner]

39 times...hmmm. Did you check to see how many are referring to the same event?

I gave you a like on this, with the exception of your idea to shuffle Revelation 6 and 7. This idea is not right, as the Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event we can expect, then follows the selection of the 144k from the great multitude if faithful Christians. Who have passed thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal and proved their faith in the Lord to protect and save them.
They are all of God's holy people, as seen later; in the holy Land, by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7

I fully agree that the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials are each separate events.

If we are speaking of prophecies, then there are several that are on the cusp of happening prior to the GOG/MaGOG (Ezk 38-39) war happens. We see this everyday in the middle east.

I'll give you a list of them and let you decide which ones are to come at anytime
1. Destruction of Damascus
2. Psalm 83 War
3. Elam (Iran) Event (Jer 49:34-39)
4. will Jordan fall (Jer 49:5-6)
5. Egypt ?? (Isaiah 19:16-18)
6. Rapture (1 Cor 15:51-53), (1 Thes 4: 15-18)

Of course there are many more prophecies that can happen. WHEN is the question. Before or after Gog/MaGog

One other NOTE: The Rapture of the Bride of Jesus Christ does NOT any prerequisites or prophecies in order for it to Happen. It is totally dependent upon the Number that will fulfill his Church. The number is known only to GOD and Jesus Christ.

Blade