THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY!

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

The gatherings you have chosen to present were Jewish gatherings in synagogues. Again, hopefully you know the difference between a Jewish synagogue and a Christian church.

A Christian Church is anywhere two or three are gathered int he Lords name. As each and every one of us are the temple of the Holy Spirit. So they were gathered in the spirit together in the Lord's name on the Sabbath day to do the Lord's work. Thus they kept the sabbath. Do you understand what a Christian Church is yet?
A Christian Church is every place two or three are Gathered in Christ's name( Acts 7:47-50, Acts 17:23-25, 1 Cor 3:8-11, 16-17, 1 Cor 6:13,15, 17-20, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:14-15, 2 Cor 6:16.)
Matt 18:20
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

The law is a singular thing. You can't parcel it out into pieces that you can decide whether to be under or not. You are either under the law or not under the law.

Do you agree with the topic originator that the Lord's Day is the Sabbath?

I agree the Mosaic law is one thing, and the Moral law is another. One written by the Hand of moses on parchment, in ink. The other on Stone Tablets by the Finger of God twice. One a law of sin and death which was only for a time. The other an everlasting covenant being kept all the way into the New Heavens and the New Earth.

It's very possible that the Lord's Day is the Sabbath in(Revelation 1:10).

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Can you give an example of the Sabbath being under attack? (with reference)

Hebrews 4 was an example to show that the Sabbath was not done away with(Hebrews 4:1) as some claimed. It was also an example to show that the day was not changed to a different day(Hebrews 4:8).

He had to correct them, so it is obvious that it was an issue even in Paul's time.

 

[JLB777]

How many were there gathered in Christ's name? Wherever two or three are gathered the Lord will be there in the midst of them. There is no Church made with human hands that for the Lord to dwell in we each are the temple of the Holy spirit.

In this verse they gathered in the Lord's name on the Sabbath day and did the Lord's work, thus they kept the Sabbath.

So you believe that we are to gather in synagogues on the Sabbath with unbelieving Jews?



JLB

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Here is the historical evidence concerning the Lord's Day.

50 AD - DIDACHE: But every Lord's day gather yourselves together... (Chapter 14)
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95 AD - THE APOSTLE JOHN: On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, (Revelation 1:10)

107 AD - IGNATIUS: let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days of the week. (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, chp 9. Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 62-63.)

130 AD - BARNABAS: Wherefore we Christians keep the eighth day for joy, on which also Jesus arose from the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. (15:8f, The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 147)

150 AD - JUSTIN: But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour on the same day rose from the dead. (First apology of Justin, Ch 68)

150 AD - JUSTIN: And on the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a city or a rural district. ... We all make our assembly in common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186)

190 AD - CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: He does the commandment according to the Gospel and keeps the Lord's day, whenever he puts away an evil mind . . . glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself. (Vii.xii.76.4)

We've already discussed this brother. Prove that each of these people preached the whole and true Gospel and then I will believe each of them. let me know them by their fruit and the Gospel they bring.

Go Ahead and post everything every said on the subject of the Lord by each of them. It will save me the trouble of looking them all up.

I'll wait brother.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

So you believe that we are to gather in synagogues on the Sabbath with unbelieving Jews?



JLB

Christians can gather anywhere(including a Jewish synagogue), and so long as two or more are gathered in the Lord's name he will be in them midst of them.

 

[JLB777]

Christians can gather anywhere(including a Jewish synagogue), and so long as two or more are gathered in the Lord's name he will be in them midst of them.

When two of more are gathered in His name on Sunday or Wednesday or any other day of the week, is the Lord in the midst of them?


JLB

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

By your definition then, if two Christians gather at a Jewish synagogue it suddenly becomes a Christian church. Is that what you meant?

In essence yes. Since the Lord does not dwell in buildings made with human hands he will dwell within the people of God who are the Temple of the Holy spirit on earth. So also will the Lord be present in the midst of these people. And if when the Christians leave the people within deny the word then the Lord's spirit and his peace will leave with them.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

When two of more are gathered in His name on Sunday or Wednesday or any other day of the week, is the Lord in the midst of them?


JLB

Yes. But we are discussing the Sabbath and them Gathering in Church. Which is what the Apostles did on the Sabbath day.

 

[JLB777]

Yes. But we are discussing the Sabbath and them Gathering in Church. Which is what the Apostles did on the Sabbath day.

No the Apostles did not.

Paul did go to a synagogue on the Sabbath until he was run out of it and rejected, then he would go the Gentiles.

Paul was evangelizing the Jews, not gathering to worship Jesus with them.


Get real dude.



JLB

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

No the Apostles did not.

Paul did go to a synagogue on the Sabbath until he was run out of it and rejected, then he would go the Gentiles.

Paul was evangelizing the Jews, not gathering to worship Jesus with them.


Get real dude.



JLB

1. Did he preach Christ crucified on this day? Did he Study the Doctrine of God, God's Holy word on this day? Were two or more Gathered in the Lord's name? Did he do any work other than that of the Lord's on this Sabbath day?

2. Exactly brother, he went first to the Jews as we are commanded and then to the gentiles. But each time he went on the Sabbath day he only did the Lord's work, thus keeping the Sabbath. Show that he did not do the Lord's work on this day, but instead that he did work for his own monetary gain. Show that and I will agree he did not keep the Sabbath.

3. Gathering in the Lord's name to preach is a way to worship the lord brother. Unless you don't believe Gathering in the Lord's name is worshiping him?

God bless you.

 

[klutedavid]

I understand where you are coming from brother, but unless the source can be proven as accurate as scripture(as in inerrant when compared to the whole bible) we have no way of knowing if anything within it was written by those of the true Church(outside of comparing it to the Gospel) or if they were written by those who were trying to lead the Church away from the true Gospel.

Do you see where I'm coming from on this brother?

The problem arises, if you do not accept any outside sources, then you do not have the New Testament either. The New Testament was assembled during the first two hundred years of church history. From memory, I think the council of Laodicea in 363 AD, listed the letters accepted as the New Testament.

I cannot see how someone who rejects church history can derive a New Testament.

 

[Saint Steven]

I agree the Mosaic law is one thing, and the Moral law is another. One written by the Hand of moses on parchment, in ink. The other on Stone Tablets by the Finger of God twice. One a law of sin and death which was only for a time. The other an everlasting covenant being kept all the way into the New Heavens and the New Earth.

It's very possible that the Lord's Day is the Sabbath in(Revelation 1:10).

What's your take on this?

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

 

[Saint Steven]

Hebrews 4 was an example to show that the Sabbath was not done away with(Hebrews 4:1) as some claimed. It was also an example to show that the day was not changed to a different day(Hebrews 4:8).

He had to correct them, so it is obvious that it was an issue even in Paul's time.

Again, you take an opposite view of Hebrews chapter four.

Where is a solid example in the NT of any believers taking issue with the Sabbath? Acts fifteen perhaps? (which way did that go?)

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

The problem arises, if you do not accept any outside sources, then you do not have the New Testament either. The New Testament was assembled during the first two hundred years of church history. From memory, I think the council of Laodicea in 363 AD, listed the letters accepted as the New Testament.

I cannot see how someone who rejects church history can derive a New Testament.

Each of the books from the bible can be shown to come the Apostles and the OT writers in the New Testament. And they have been verified time and time again. The Gospel existed long before the Council gathered to put the bible together. They merely bound them up in one book(even adding a bunch of books that are not God's word).

These other writers are not the Apostles, as such everything they say cannot be taken as the inerrant word of God. Unless we can prove that everything they have said aligns with God's word perfectly. Everything they say concerning the God's word must be taken into question if even one thing is false, we can no longer prove that they are truly of God simply by examining the Gospel they bring.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Again, you take an opposite view of Hebrews chapter four.

Where is a solid example in the NT of any believers taking issue with the Sabbath? Acts fifteen perhaps? (which way did that go?)

It is a solid example.

I am still waiting for your take verse by verse on the Chapter so I can see how you came to this conclusion.

 

[Saint Steven]

We've already discussed this brother. Prove that each of these people preached the whole and true Gospel and then I will believe each of them. let me know them by their fruit and the Gospel they bring.

Go Ahead and post everything every said on the subject of the Lord by each of them. It will save me the trouble of looking them all up.

I'll wait brother.

Do you have any idea how extensive the library of early church writings is?
You already picked apart the Didache. As did I the first time I saw it.

You are completely missing the point here.
I'm not promoting the writings of the early church above the New Testament.
They do however serve as a historic window into the goings-on of the early church.

And from that perspective are a good source for defining a term that is not defined in the New Testament. These early writings clearly define the term "the Lord's Day". I understand that this disagrees with your doctrine. If what I am saying is true it has catastrophic effect your doctrine. It proves that the NT church was not a Sabbath-keeping church. A point that you find impossible to prove otherwise. Let that sink in.

 

[Saint Steven]

Consider this. How likely is it that the term "the Lord's Day" meant the Sabbath in 95 AD and then changed to mean Sunday in 107 AD?

 

[Saint Steven]

In essence yes. Since the Lord does not dwell in buildings made with human hands he will dwell within the people of God who are the Temple of the Holy spirit on earth. So also will the Lord be present in the midst of these people. And if when the Christians leave the people within deny the word then the Lord's spirit and his peace will leave with them.

So you are claiming that if two Christians gather at a Jewish synagogue it suddenly becomes a Christian church; but when the Christians leave it becomes a Jewish synagogue again?

And this is how you support your claim of a Sabbath-keeping Christian church? You lost this argument two pages ago. Give it up.

 

[Saint Steven]

It is a solid example.

I am still waiting for your take verse by verse on the Chapter so I can see how you came to this conclusion.

Why would you "wait" for something I already told you I had no interest in doing?