THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY!

[Saint Steven]

Well I do have a much longer answer brother, but I hope we can discuss these few verse without having to jump into a massive study as that usually comes to no avail.

1. Each of the verses say they gathered on the sabbath day to teach. This is indeed an example, of them observing the Sabbath day, otherwise it would say simply that they gathered on A Day without any qualifier.

2. The only Sabbath being spoken of here is the seventh day Sabbath(which I pointed out in the last post brother), it even says if another Sabbath was to be instituted Christ would have mentioned it. It also in the first verse says if the Sabbath rest were to have left us we should be afraid. That is to say if the Sabbath were gone we should fear.

If your aim was to evangelize Jews in a synagogue, and you were of Jewish heritage, what day would you expect to find them gathered?

Do you realize that both Christ and the Apostle Paul were risking their lives to go into a synagogue to preach on the Sabbath?

Sorry, but this is not an example of the Christian church gathering on the Sabbath.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

If your aim was to evangelize Jews in a synagogue, and you were of Jewish heritage, what day would you expect to find them gathered?

Do you realize that both Christ and the Apostle Paul were risking their lives to go into a synagogue to preach on the Sabbath?

Sorry, but this is not an example of the Christian church gathering on the Sabbath.

They also preached in the square brother, Church was not the only place they went to speak with the Jews. And they did so on no specific day. Again though they would not have said it was the Sabbath day if no Sabbath remained, it would have said the Seventh day they Gathered(or made no mention of the day at all) and not the Sabbath. Saying they Gathered on the Sabbath is saying they Gathered on a holy day of rest designated by the Lord. If we were not meant to keep it they would have said seventh day(or made no mention of the day) without giving any indication it was holy(so as to avoid this very discussion/argument).

 

[Saint Steven]

Brother

Might I ask that you give me your interpretation verse by verse(in the same manner I did) of Hebrews 4?

That sounds like a lot of work.
I could speak briefly to verses nine and ten.

Entering God's rest means to rest from our works. That is, the works of the flesh. To allow God to work in us, and in our situation, rather than following our own desire to do things under our own power. So, from that perspective, there remains a sabbath-rest for the people of God. The Sabbath of the law is gone. The sabbath of resting in God remains.

Hebrews 4:9-10
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his.

 

[Saint Steven]

They also preached in the square brother, Church was not the only place they went to speak with the Jews. And they did so on no specific day. Again though they would not have said it was the Sabbath day if no Sabbath remained, it would have said the Seventh day they Gathered(or made no mention of the day at all) and not the Sabbath. Saying they Gathered on the Sabbath is saying they Gathered on a holy day of rest designated by the Lord. If we were not meant to keep it they would have said seventh day(or made no mention of the day) without giving any indication it was holy(so as to avoid this very discussion/argument).

You have still failed to show a Sabbath-keeping church. Believers gathering to worship Jesus and keep the Sabbath. The Apostle Peter said it best.

Acts 15:10
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

 

[Saint Steven]

They also preached in the square brother, Church was not the only place they went to speak with the Jews. ...

You do know the difference between a Jewish synagogue and a Christian church, I hope.

After Jesus preached in his home town synagogue, they tried to throw him off a cliff.

Luke 4:29
They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff.

 

[Saint Steven]

Christ and the Apostles preached the fullness of the Gospel, and every true Christian has preached the same. So my explanation for it becoming a day of worship(a Sabbath day) is simple, false teachers/shepherd's arose and deceived the flock.

From my point of view brother, we can only speculate on when exactly this practice came into place, but from the quotes you provided(and Paul's mention of the rest remaining in Hebrews 4) it must have been very early that people started to be lead away from the Saturday Sabbath. From what I can tell soon after the Apostles death the Churches were being strongly lead away from the Gospel, since the Apostles were not there to Correct them as needed. I would say it became a custom to keep Sunday soon after John's death(or at least that is when it gained momentum) as that is when we see many of the Early writers mentioning it.

Two questions.
1) When did the Apostle John die?
2) What is the gospel that the church was immediately being led away from?

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

That sounds like a lot of work.
I could speak briefly to verses nine and ten.

Entering God's rest means to rest from our works. That is, the works of the flesh. To allow God to work in us, and in our situation, rather than following our own desire to do things under our own power. So, from that perspective, there remains a sabbath-rest for the people of God. The Sabbath of the law is gone. The sabbath of resting in God remains.

Hebrews 4:9-10
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his.

It is a lot of work brother, but I'm asking no more of you than I would do myself(and have done).

1 Thess 5:21
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
2 timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2 timothy 4:1-2, 5
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

You have still failed to show a Sabbath-keeping church. Believers gathering to worship Jesus and keep the Sabbath. The Apostle Peter said it best.

Acts 15:10
Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

Brother, I did ask that we stay to these few verses because if we we get into what was and was not the Mosaic law(Yoke of Bondage) then there will be nothing left but to discuss the word in detail sparing no verses(from the Old and New Testament). We are currently discussing instances of the Sabbath being mentioned in the New Testament under grace, we are not at this time discussing mosaic law.

I have shown that they gathered on the Sabbath brother, it is your choice to view the word in a different manner.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

You do know the difference between a Jewish synagogue and a Christian church, I hope.

After Jesus preached in his home town synagogue, they tried to throw him off a cliff.

Luke 4:29
They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff.

A Christian Church is every place two or three are Gathered in Christ's name( Acts 7:47-50, Acts 17:23-25, 1 Cor 3:8-11, 16-17, 1 Cor 6:13,15, 17-20, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:14-15, 2 Cor 6:16.)
Matt 18:20
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Two questions.
1) When did the Apostle John die?
2) What is the gospel that the church was immediately being led away from?

1. Some sources say shortly after 98 Ad others say earlier.
2. Every time Paul or any the Apostles had to correct someone on something we see(at least in part) which areas of the Gospel were under attack by false ministers. So everything from baptism, to the sabbath day, to how we are handle ourselves in business. Basically the entire Gospel of Christ.

 

[JLB777]

The Sabbath of the law is gone. The sabbath of resting in God remains.

Amen.


Their are no instructions from Christ to the Church about gathering on a specific day to worship.

The Sabbath was made for man to rest.


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5


Those who quote the law of Moses concerning the Sabbath are obligated to put to death those who work on Saturday.

They are also obligated to keep all the law of Moses.


JPT

 

[JLB777]

1. Sabbath keeping Church in NT under Grace. On the Sabbath day.
Acts 13:14, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 15:21, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:1-3, Acts 18:4

But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. Acts 13:14


No mention of the Church keeping any specific Sabbath rules here.


Unless you believe the Church is obligated to gather in a synagogue of unbelievers who openly reject Jesus Christ as Messiah.


Paul was sent by Jesus Christ to preach Christ to the Jews.


If the Lord leads you yourself to go to a synagogue to teach unbelieving Christ rejectors about Christ, then please do so.

However, claiming Acts 13:14 as a mandate to the Church to gather in a synagogue of Christ rejecting Jews on the Sabbath to worship Jesus Christ are hear teaching from the Bible about Him is utterly and completely false.


I guess that’s why you just quoted a scripture reference, rather than quoting the scripture itself.


JPT

 

[Saint Steven]

Brother, I did ask that we stay to these few verses because if we we get into what was and was not the Mosaic law(Yoke of Bondage) then there will be nothing left but to discuss the word in detail sparing no verses(from the Old and New Testament). We are currently discussing instances of the Sabbath being mentioned in the New Testament under grace, we are not at this time discussing mosaic law.

I have shown that they gathered on the Sabbath brother, it is your choice to view the word in a different manner.

The gatherings you have chosen to present were Jewish gatherings in synagogues. Again, hopefully you know the difference between a Jewish synagogue and a Christian church.

 

[Saint Steven]

A Christian Church is every place two or three are Gathered in Christ's name( Acts 7:47-50, Acts 17:23-25, 1 Cor 3:8-11, 16-17, 1 Cor 6:13,15, 17-20, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:14-15, 2 Cor 6:16.)
Matt 18:20
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

By your definition then, if two Christians gather at a Jewish synagogue it suddenly becomes a Christian church. Is that what you meant?

 

[Saint Steven]

1. Some sources say shortly after 98 Ad others say earlier.
2. Every time Paul or any the Apostles had to correct someone on something we see(at least in part) which areas of the Gospel were under attack by false ministers. So everything from baptism, to the sabbath day, to how we are handle ourselves in business. Basically the entire Gospel of Christ.

Can you give an example of the Sabbath being under attack? (with reference)

 

[Saint Steven]

The originator and all his minions have failed to prove the main point and secondary point on this topic. They have failed to prove that the Lord's Day is not Sunday and they have failed to prove that the Lord's Day is the Sabbath. While the OP rigged the thread to prevent the truth from being heard. FAIL, FAIL, FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Saint Steven]

Brother, I did ask that we stay to these few verses because if we we get into what was and was not the Mosaic law(Yoke of Bondage) then there will be nothing left but to discuss the word in detail sparing no verses(from the Old and New Testament). We are currently discussing instances of the Sabbath being mentioned in the New Testament under grace, we are not at this time discussing mosaic law.

I have shown that they gathered on the Sabbath brother, it is your choice to view the word in a different manner.

The law is a singular thing. You can't parcel it out into pieces that you can decide whether to be under or not. You are either under the law or not under the law.

Do you agree with the topic originator that the Lord's Day is the Sabbath?

 

[Saint Steven]

Here is the historical evidence concerning the Lord's Day.

50 AD - DIDACHE: But every Lord's day gather yourselves together... (Chapter 14)
​

95 AD - THE APOSTLE JOHN: On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, (Revelation 1:10)

107 AD - IGNATIUS: let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days of the week. (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, chp 9. Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 62-63.)

130 AD - BARNABAS: Wherefore we Christians keep the eighth day for joy, on which also Jesus arose from the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. (15:8f, The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 147)

150 AD - JUSTIN: But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour on the same day rose from the dead. (First apology of Justin, Ch 68)

150 AD - JUSTIN: And on the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a city or a rural district. ... We all make our assembly in common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186)

190 AD - CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: He does the commandment according to the Gospel and keeps the Lord's day, whenever he puts away an evil mind . . . glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself. (Vii.xii.76.4)

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't think Sunday as a worship day, emanated from the Catholic church.

You are correct.

We can pin these folks down by asking them for names and dates. They will say it was the Catholic Church. But not when or by whom. Some claim it was Constantine. But what is the date? They may point to the Council of Laodicea, Canon 29. But what is the date?
None of this holds up in light of the writings of the early church in the first and second century AD. The same time frame as the writing of the NT and in the time period of the early church fathers, who the Sabbatarians want to claim is the Catholic Church. Even the Council of Laodicea, Canon 29, dated 365 AD, indicates a change in the day of rest, not the day of worship, which it indicates is already the Lord's Day. Imagine that.

Council of Laodicea, Canon 29
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. Acts 13:14


No mention of the Church keeping any specific Sabbath rules here.


Unless you believe the Church is obligated to gather in a synagogue of unbelievers who openly reject Jesus Christ as Messiah.


Paul was sent by Jesus Christ to preach Christ to the Jews.


If the Lord leads you yourself to go to a synagogue to teach unbelieving Christ rejectors about Christ, then please do so.

However, claiming Acts 13:14 as a mandate to the Church to gather in a synagogue of Christ rejecting Jews on the Sabbath to worship Jesus Christ are hear teaching from the Bible about Him is utterly and completely false.


I guess that’s why you just quoted a scripture reference, rather than quoting the scripture itself.


JPT

How many were there gathered in Christ's name? Wherever two or three are gathered the Lord will be there in the midst of them. There is no Church made with human hands that for the Lord to dwell in we each are the temple of the Holy spirit.

In this verse they gathered in the Lord's name on the Sabbath day and did the Lord's work, thus they kept the Sabbath.