SDA

[mmksparbud]

You need to read more posts of sda members. Some who go to church commit unknown sins concerning what is written in the Ten Commandments. I have only ever been to one church denomination where people took the Lords name in vain, laughing as they did so. I don't see how the reason for that can be, they don't understand everything yet, as it was constantly stated you must obey the Ten Commandments at their church. Only reason I can see is, they relied on reading what is written in ink to understand, as I keep telling you, the more reliable witness comes from within

I've never heard any SDA take the Lord's name in vain. In fact, I worked for one little lady who was very militant about what she perceived as taking His name in vain--she came unglued at someone who said "Gee whiz." There are some who do not understand where some of these sayings come from. I have been guilty of it myself sometimes. Saying "holy cow" is frowned upon. There are many euphemisms for God that a lot of Christians do not understand where they came from--I didn't. Gadzooks I thought was benign. There is a boatload of them. I doubt I know them all. I used for crying out load a lot and sometimes on this website--someone told me a few days ago that is also a no no--Really? What in the world does that stand for?? She didn't know, she just read it was another euphemism.

 

[stephen pollard]

Now I know why most sda members normally stick to the partial cherry picked letter of the bible, explaining personal beliefs can be dangerous!

 

[stephen pollard]

I've never heard any SDA take the Lord's name in vain. .

I get tired of having to repeat this. I truly and honestly went to an sda church with an open mind, as God is my witness that is the truth. I wanted to be inclusive, not exclusive when asked to go. The people were friendly, I joined in a couple of services. Now you probably will not understand this. But when I saw two members casually taking the Lords name in vain, and laughing as they did so, it very, very deeply disturbed me, for that I had never previously witnessed in any church I had previously been to. It wasn't just two either. I was sitting in a pew one day, and a woman casually squeezed through to sit down, flippantly taking the Lords name in vain also.
I could go onto other things, but won't

 

[mmksparbud]

I get tired of having to repeat this. I truly and honestly went to an sda church with an open mind, as God is my witness that is the truth. I wanted to be inclusive, not exclusive when asked to go. The people were friendly, I joined in a couple of services. Now you probably will not understand this. But when I saw two members casually taking the Lords name in vain, and laughing as they did so, it very, very deeply disturbed me, for that I had never previously witnessed in any church I had previously been to. It wasn't just two either. I was sitting in a pew one day, and a woman casually squeezed through to sit down, flippantly taking the Lords name in vain also.
I could go onto other things, but won't

No reason to doubt you---I just have never heard it myself. Perhaps they were new converts, I have no doubt someone corrected them on down the line. You will find sin in every church---seeing as they are houses for a bunch of sinners. If you find one that has no sinners---don't join it--you'll mess up their perfect score!!
My ice has all melted--got to cool down the computer now----good night---err---good morning--it's 3 am---I don't sleep except in the day--my circadian rhythm is all messed up.

 

[stephen pollard]

You will find sin in every church---seeing as they are houses for a bunch of sinners. If you find one that has no sinners---don't join it--you'll mess up their perfect score!!
.

Are you sure you are in the same sda church denomination as bobryan and LGW?

I agree, all Christians commit sin, that's not the issue, but happily sinning without conscience, and concerning commmandments sda relentlessly state must be obeyed if you want to attain to heaven?
So you do not know in your mind what has been placed there? and Paul was wrong to say: 'Through the law we become conscious of sin'. He should have said: 'Sometimes we become conscious of sin through the law'?

 

[stephen pollard]

No reason to doubt you---I just have never heard it myself. Perhaps they were new converts, I have no doubt someone corrected them on down the line. You will find sin in every church---seeing as they are houses for a bunch of sinners. If you find one that has no sinners---don't join it--you'll mess up their perfect score!!
My ice has all melted--got to cool down the computer now----good night---err---good morning--it's 3 am---I don't sleep except in the day--my circadian rhythm is all messed up.

Anyway, hope you get a good nights sleep. God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Are you sure you are in the same sda church denomination as bobryan and LGW?

I agree, all Christians commit sin, that's not the issue, but happily sinning without conscience, and concerning commmandments sda relentlessly state must be obeyed if you want to attain to heaven?
So you do not know in your mind what has been placed there? and Paul was wrong to say: 'Through the law we become conscious of sin'. He should have said: 'Sometimes we become conscious of sin through the law'?

Respectfully, what is sad about your posting Steve is that you claim people are saying things to you that no one has ever said to you and as such this is spreading misinformation because you either do not know any better and are mixed up or you are wishing to spread misinformation. I do not judge you because only God knows your heart and if you are genuinely mixed up or if you are lying and I do not know. I will leave this between you and God. I do suggest however that you read the recent post I have provided to you in post # 455 linked. Saying anything differently now after you have been respectfully corrected however is not telling the truth once again I will leave this between you and God and pray that you will do the right thing now you have been corrected.

Hope this helps

 

[bekkilyn]

Most of this thread exemplifies the reason for the new covenant and why the Holy Spirit is now what is given to us for the conviction of sin rather than the obsolete ten commandments.

There is a lot of overlap between the two, which is why many "sabbatarian" Christians think that we are still under the ten commandments because adultery and murder are sins under both covenants so it seems that they are the same, but they are not.

So when we are under law, our discussion is about how we can use the law to live perfect letter-of-the-law lives and then try to make sure that we know when we've sinned so that we can ask forgiveness, and then we are doomed if we forget one or don't realize that we've broken any part of the law.

We also don't realize that being in sin isn't just about breaking a law, but it's also the entire essence of our fleshly being. As long as we are in these sinful, fleshly bodies, we practically ARE sin. Yes we can keep ourselves from committing adultery or murdering someone but we still can't come before God on a permanent basis because our fleshly bodies are saturated with sin and we are living in a world that is saturated with sin...not just because of what people DO, but because of what the flesh IS. If you look at sin like it was radiation, then sin saturates everything just like radiation.

There is no way obeying any kinds of laws, even as perfectly as our sin-saturated selves and world would allow, to be able to cleanse ourselves enough to live in God's presence. It's just impossible for any human (barring one who is also fully divine of the essence of God himself) could do.

THAT is why we need Jesus. THAT is why we have the Holy Spirit. THAT is why we have new and different commandments from Jesus, and THAT is why the old covenant laws, and yes, including the ten commandments, are obsolete. Even the ten commandments were a shadow to God's universal "Law"...being the very nature of God himself.

That's why when someone is resting in Jesus Christ, because he IS our rest, they are not in violation of breaking the old ceremonial sabbath. In fact, they are observing a new and better sabbath that the old ceremonial sabbath was pointing to all along. The old ceremonial sabbath was given specifically to the Israelites as a sign of the covenant God made with them at Sinai and it was intended as a temporary covenant until Jesus came to fulfill it, which he did on the cross. "It is finished." His work is finished and the old heaven and earth (representing Jerusalem) has passed away.

When we are made "perfect" in Christ, it's not a matter of becoming morally perfect by being able to perfectly obey laws because of a belief that because Jesus did it, we can do the same thing. We cannot. If we could, we would have no need of him on this earth. He didn't come simply as a moral example for us to follow so that we can learn not to break old covenant law. He came to save us from that law...he came to make us righteous through HIS righteousness so our sins, to make us not guilty of our sins because HE is not guilty.

Being perfect is being "complete" in Christ because HE makes us complete, or perfect. Again, not anything we do, but what he does.

It is all him, nothing of us. We need only surrender ourselves to his will through the Holy Spirit and receive him into our hearts.

Baptism is just a sign of his new covenant relationship with us. It cannot save us either. Many in the new testament received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized.

We cannot save ourselves through law and we cannot continue to BE saved through law.

It it ONLY through Jesus we were saved, we are saved, and are being saved. There is no other way.

And I know certain people are going to go on about, "Ohhhh not quoting scripture, blah blah blah" but what good does it do when everything in scripture points right to JESUS and to nothing else?

Also, I could make up a theory, let's say, "God is a murderer of murderers and he is lying when he says he is the God of Truth" and just like Satan would, I could cherry pick all sorts of scripture (with other scripture backing scripture) to "prove" my case. And it would be entirely false.

What we can be assured is NOT false is Jesus Christ and his gospel (which is NOT about following law and commandments), and it is in him we need to put our ENTIRE trust, and that is where our faith comes in as in Hebrews 11.1. It's really as simple as that. No need to turn it into something it's not and was never intended to be.

 

[stephen pollard]

Respectfully, what is sad about your posting Steve is that you claim people are saying things to you that no one has ever said to you and as such this is spreading misinformation because you either do not know any better and are mixed up or you are wishing to spread misinformation. I do not judge you because only God knows your heart and if you are genuinely mixed up or if you are lying and I do not know. I will leave this between you and God. I do suggest however that you read the recent post I have provided to you in post # 455 linked. Saying anything differently now after you have been respectfully corrected however is not telling the truth once again I will leave this between you and God and pray that you will do the right thing now you have been corrected.

Hope this helps

You will find sin in every church---seeing as they are houses for a bunch of sinners. If you find one that has no sinners---don't join it--you'll mess up their perfect score!!

So you agree with the above? Churches are a place for a bunch of people who break the law/are sinners? The post did not say, was sinners, past tense please note

The thread. Who do you follow, the traditions of men or the words of Jesus. Post 696 LGW:

Yes they think they have God's Spirit while breaking God's Commandments. *1 JOHN 2:3-4; ACTS 2:38. They do not know they need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 3:3-10 to love and that love is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 3:31. Their faith is dead because they are still in their sins because they have rejected the gift of God's dear son and are in danger of the judgment *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; JAMES 2:18-20; MATTHEW 7:12-23. Many are called but few are chosen. Many will be dissappointed come judgment day.

 

[stephen pollard]

Respectfully, what is sad about your posting Steve is that you claim people are saying things to you that no one has ever said to you and as such this is spreading misinformation because you either do not know any better and are mixed up or you are wishing to spread misinformation. I do not judge you because only God knows your heart and if you are genuinely mixed up or if you are lying and I do not know. I will leave this between you and God. I do suggest however that you read the recent post I have provided to you in post # 455 linked. Saying anything differently now after you have been respectfully corrected however is not telling the truth once again I will leave this between you and God and pray that you will do the right thing now you have been corrected.

Hope this helps

From the same thread:
Christs sacrifice for our sins covers all sin past present and future. However, this is only conditional on confession and repentance of these sins. If we go and continue in known sin at any point in the present or furture and turn away from God by continuing in sin once we are aware of it then we have fallen away from God's grace and rejecting the gift of God's dear son and not in a saved state before God *HEBREWS 10:26-27; ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 6:4-8. Sin is the transgression of God's LAW and those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *MATTHEW 7:12-23

Or, we could say you believe churches are a place for a bunch of people who break the law, as they are ignorant of what obeying the law requires.

 

[BobRyan]

Every seventh day Adventist would believe the Ten Commandments are written in the mind and placed on the heart of believers

And so also do these non-SDA groups claim that the TEN Commandments are written on the heart under the New Covenant

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And so also these non-SDA groups

Do you know how many of them believe you can go on sinning in ignorance of law written in your mind and placed on your heart?

Do you know how many of them think all Catholics go to hell if they don't believe just like they do??

No answer to the question I see

Indeed you are apparently not going to answer.

I hope you know that not everyone respects those in that group you keep posting as "proof."

1. They are "proof" that this basic Bible detail is not something "only known to SDAs". Irrefutable.
2. I am happy to have those who wish to differ with me do so -- I merely stop them as they go to the "extreme" point of claiming that "only BobRyan knows that" or "only SDAs know that" when it comes to this basic Bible detail.
3. The detail you "missed" in the post you are quoting is that it is in answer to the notion that such non-SDA groups would always condemn anyone that may not know about one of the commandments or might not be aware that their current practice is in violation of the Ten.

 

[BobRyan]

Most of this thread exemplifies the reason for the new covenant and why the Holy Spirit is now what is given to us for the conviction of sin rather than the obsolete ten commandments. .

That example of "creative writing" illustrates why I prefer the Bible ...

Anyone on this board can simply makes stuff up - as we all know and agree. But having doctrine that is actually according to the Bible - there is the key.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree, all Christians commit sin, that's not the issue, but happily sinning without conscience, and concerning commmandments sda relentlessly state must be obeyed

And then he is brought-up-short by the fact that we all know of Christians who pray to the dead and happily bow down to images promising to serve those they represent.

As has been pointed out a few dozen times... details matter.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

And then he is brought-up-short by the fact that we all know of Christians who pray to the dead and happily bow down to images promising to serve those they represent. As has been pointed out a few dozen times... details matter.

Hi Bob, I think stephen has been banned so you may not get any responses to your posts now if you find it suddenly becomes silent.

God bless

 

[bekkilyn]

That example of "creative writing" illustrates why I prefer the Bible ...

Anyone on this board can simply makes stuff up - as we all know and agree. But having doctrine that is actually according to the Bible - there is the key.

What's actually creative is believing that anyone (or anything) other than Christ is going to save you and keep you saved.

 

[klutedavid]

You die to sin when you are baptized and you have Jesus in your heart. You then have died to sin--as I said--if you oooppss!---then you ask for forgiveness. Just obeying the 10 commandments gets you nowhere. It is the reason you don't break them--because you love the Lord and He lives in your hear and you can't break them then, being human, we do and often do lay Him temporarily aside and go a little nuts and do dumb things and sin our little souls into hell if we did not repent and ask forgiveness. Repent means to turn away.

If you repented, then why do you keep sinning?

 

[klutedavid]

LOL! First time I've been accused of that! Close--but no cigar. And you forget---we all came from Catholicism!--every denomination. SDA's were formed from a group of Methodists, Lutherans and Baptists and every other denomination---all those sheep came together and formed us--and they are still coming to us--call us sheep stealers all you want--that is one crime that we need not ask forgiveness for!

What you said is not true. The early church was divided into five regions from memory. The eastern church never came under the rule of the church in Rome.

SDAs were former Millerites from memory.

The Millerites were the followers of the teachings of William Miller, who in 1833 first shared publicly his belief that the Second Advent of Jesus Christ would occur in roughly the year 1843–1844. (wikipedia)

William Miller prophecised that Jesus would return in 1844. That did not occur and Miller admitted he was wrong. Though Ellen White held on to that prophecy and rewrote it.

So both William and Ellen were not Catholics.

 

[BobRyan]

What's actually creative is believing that anyone (or anything) other than Christ is going to save you and keep you saved.

Interesting - but nobody on this thread has argued that Christ is not the Savior -- the one and only Savior and we both know it.

Less creative writing - more scripture please.

=========================================

I have met many SDAs who reject OSAS.

And they believe in Eph 2 - "Saved by grace through faith"
They all believe 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
They all believe Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
They all believe 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
They all believe that works will never get us into heaven ... only grace and the blood of Christ covering our sins - and the New Heart - new creation walking by faith - and in the Spirit.

They all know Matt 7 Jesus said "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the will of My Father" and they believe Jesus

They all know Romans 2:13-16 "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law will be JUSTIFIED.. on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"

Note that He is not including any commandments related to "Love God with all your heart"

He does not list "do not take God's name in vain"
He does not list "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "Do not worship false gods"
etc.

In that list He only includes things related to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

But he does quote outright - verbatim commandments from the TEN commandments

Such that Paul can say in Eph 6:2 that the 5th commandment in that still-binding unit of Ten is the "First commandment with a promise"

He also leaves out the fourth commandment.

True.. as I said .

Note that He is not including any commandments related to "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "do not take God's name in vain"
He does not list "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "Do not worship false gods"
etc.

However, if it weren't for the fact that the passage is about putting Jesus first in our lives rather than obeying commandments, the man would have had eternal life by having followed just the commandments that Jesus listed and not any other commandment. None of the others were required.

Yet we note that in Matthew 19 Christ is not including any commandments related to "Love God with all your heart"

your notion that these are not part of God's Law or that violation of them is fine... is an extreme position for any Christian of any denomination. Has nothing to do with SDA or not.

He does not list "do not take God's name in vain"
He does not list "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "Do not worship false gods"
etc.

It's not about following commandments. It's about putting Jesus first

Creative writing -- but here is what the text says in real life.

16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

 

[BobRyan]

What you said is not true. The early church was divided into five regions from memory. The eastern church never came under the rule of the church in Rome.

So then it is true that you never even heard of the "great schism" of 1050 AD??

Christianity in the 11th century is marked primarily by the Great Schism of the Church, which formally divided the State church of the Roman Empire into Eastern (Greek) and Western (Latin) branches.

In 1054, following the death of the Patriarch of Rome Leo IX, papal legates (representatives of the Pope) from Rome traveled to Constantinople to deny Michael Cerularius, the reigning Patriarch of Constantinople, the title of Ecumenical Patriarch and to insist that he recognize the Church of Rome's claim to be the head and mother of the churches. Cerularius refused, resulting in the leader of the contingent from Rome excommunicating Cerularius and the legates in turn being excommunicated by Constantinople.

 

[klutedavid]

So then it is true that you never even heard of the "great schism" of 1050 AD??

Christianity in the 11th century is marked primarily by the Great Schism of the Church, which formally divided the State church of the Roman Empire into Eastern (Greek) and Western (Latin) branches.

In 1054, following the death of the Patriarch of Rome Leo IX, papal legates (representatives of the Pope) from Rome traveled to Constantinople to deny Michael Cerularius, the reigning Patriarch of Constantinople, the title of Ecumenical Patriarch and to insist that he recognize the Church of Rome's claim to be the head and mother of the churches. Cerularius refused, resulting in the leader of the contingent from Rome excommunicating Cerularius and the legates in turn being excommunicated by Constantinople.

What about the first thousand years?