SDA

[stephen pollard]

I never say "your justification is obeying the Ten Commandments" but I do affirm the texts I gave earlier as "the Word of God" and -- Truth.

I know, you are not justified by obeying the ten commandments, but you can only be in a justified state if you do obey the ten commandments

 

[stephen pollard]

We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth.

I am discussing biblical truth, please discuss catholic beliefs with catholics

 

[BobRyan]

I know you are not justified by obeying the ten commandments, but you can only be in a justified state if you do obey the ten commandments

The moment a saved person sins -- "take God's name in vain" for example - they are not lost.

"these things I write to you that you sin not - and if anyone sins we have an advocate with the Father" 1 John 2:1

 

[BobRyan]

However, if a Saturday sabbath is as important as sda members believe it is, I am not how sda members would believe, in view of this the Holy Spirit would allow people to continually sin in ignorance of it

We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth.

I am discussing biblical truth, please discuss catholic beliefs with catholics

The idea that it only matters when you choose to ignore something in the Bible is not a compelling argument. A Bible principle is true or it is not -- and has nothing to do with "but what if it is just Stephen Pollard ignoring it or unaware of it".

I point to a rather large group of Christians (much large than "just Stephen Pollard" ) and show that their not being aware of something does not make it right but it also does not mean they are lost due to that fact alone until it is pointed out to them under conviction.

 

[stephen pollard]

The moment a saved person sins -- "take God's name in vain" for example - they are not lost.

"these things I write to you that you sin not - and if anyone sins we have an advocate with the Father" 1 John 2:1

That verse does not state people are sinning without knowing they are sinning does it.
The only church I have ever been to where people take the Lords name in vain, unaware they sin by doing so is an sda church.

 

[stephen pollard]

We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth.



The idea that it only matters when you choose to ignore something in the Bible is not a compelling argument. A Bible principle is true or it is not -- and has nothing to do with "but what if it is just Stephen Pollard"

Biblical truth states
Sin is the transgression of the law
Through the law we become conscious of sin

What is in your mind, you in your mind mustr know
And therefore what is in your heart(law) must bring heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth.

Biblical truth states
Sin is the transgression of the law
Through the law we become conscious of sin

What is in your mind, you in your mind mustr know
And therefore what is in your heart(law) must bring heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it

And clearly those billion Christians would claim they have no heartfelt conviction against praying to the dead or bowing down before images in worship.

 

[stephen pollard]

We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth.



The idea that it only matters when you choose to ignore something in the Bible is not a compelling argument. A Bible principle is true or it is not -- and has nothing to do with "but what if it is just Stephen Pollard ignoring it or unaware of it".

I point to a rather large group of Christians (much large than "just Stephen Pollard" ) and show that their not being aware of something does not make it right but it also does not mean they are lost due to that fact alone until it is pointed out to them under conviction.

Once again, please discuss catholic beliefs with catholics. I am giving you biblical truth based on the foundation the new covenant stands on

 

[BobRyan]

However, if a Saturday sabbath is as important as sda members believe it is, I am not how sda members would believe, in view of this the Holy Spirit would allow people to continually sin in ignorance of it

We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth.

I am discussing biblical truth, please discuss catholic beliefs with catholics

The idea that it only matters when you choose to ignore something in the Bible is not a compelling argument. A Bible principle is true or it is not -- and has nothing to do with "but what if it is just Stephen Pollard ignoring it or unaware of it".

I point to a rather large group of Christians (much large than "just Stephen Pollard" ) and show that their not being aware of something does not make it right but it also does not mean they are lost due to that fact alone until it is pointed out to them under conviction.

Once again, please discuss catholic beliefs with catholics. I am giving you biblical truth based on the foundation the new covenant stands on

Biblical truth does not "vanish" simply because it is shown in application with groups like Catholics. It is true all the same. Your question is not "just in my case -- is the Bible setting up special rules just for Stephen Pollard"? And I think we both know that.

 

[bekkilyn]

In Matthew 19 Jesus said "if you want eternal life - keep the commandments" --
Jesus is then asked "which ones".
Instead of avoiding the TEN in Matthew 22 - Jesus specifically quotes from the Ten -- the commands that deal with "Love your neighbor" as He instructed in Leviticus 19.

your idea that all those Christian denominations are confused - is your POV. You can have any view you want.



Agreed.

He does not list "do not take God's name in vain"
He does not list "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "Do not worship false gods"
etc.

In that list He only includes things related to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

But he does quote outright - verbatim commandments from the TEN commandments

Such that Paul can say in Eph 6:2 that the 5th commandment in that still-binding unit of Ten is the "First commandment with a promise"

He also leaves out the fourth commandment. However, if it weren't for the fact that the passage is about putting Jesus first in our lives rather than obeying commandments, the man would have had eternal life by having followed just the commandments that Jesus listed and not any other commandment. None of the others were required.

It's not about following commandments. It's about putting Jesus first in our lives and the Holy Spirit, not the ten commandments, is our gift and guide for doing that.

 

[stephen pollard]

We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth.



The idea that it only matters when you choose to ignore something in the Bible is not a compelling argument. A Bible principle is true or it is not -- and has nothing to do with "but what if it is just Stephen Pollard ignoring it or unaware of it".

I point to a rather large group of Christians (much large than "just Stephen Pollard" ) and show that their not being aware of something does not make it right but it also does not mean they are lost due to that fact alone until it is pointed out to them under conviction.



Biblical truth does not "vanish" simply because it is shown in application with groups like Catholics. It is true all the same. Your question is not "just in my case -- is the Bible setting up special rules just for Stephen Pollard"? And I think we both know that.

Do you not believe sin is the transgression of the law?
Do you not believe through the law we become conscious of sin?
You cannot hide from what is in your most inward parts. What is in your mind you in your mind must know, the law in your heart must bring heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it. I have no conviction of sin whatsoever by failing to follow a set Saturday sabbath. I am not choosing to ignore such conviction, I do not have any, never have had.

 

[mmksparbud]

Check the vents on your laptop, they are probably full of dust. The laptop is probably not breathing and that helps to overheat it.

Thanks--did that a long time ago--that's what I thought first. No--it's the stupid fan. When you first turn it on, the computer says that it has detected that the fan is not running properly. And it had made a horrible noise once before the fan quite working. I just have to figure out how to get another computer---it's my life almost! I am disabled, I use it for ordering all my supplies and paying bills and I do the solitaire for pain control--it numbs my brain and helps me not to take so much pain meds.

 

[mmksparbud]

Once again, please discuss catholic beliefs with catholics. I am giving you biblical truth based on the foundation the new covenant stands on

You are the one that is using the word Catholic--He named no church--other churches besides Catholics do this. He is merely pointing out that what you said about being in sin and not being convicted is a problem for you---well---they have not been convicted about bowing down to images.

 

[stephen pollard]

You are the one that is using the word Catholic--He named no church--other churches besides Catholics do this. He is merely pointing out that what you said about being in sin and not being convicted is a problem for you---well---they have not been convicted about bowing down to images.

I am happy to change the words from catholic to other denominations. But deflecting to other denominations, rather than discuss biblical facts, shows a weakness in your argument. let other denominations speak for themselves

 

[mmksparbud]

I am happy to change the words from catholic to other denominations. But deflecting to other denominations, rather than discuss biblical facts, shows a weakness in your argument

Not a deflection--same scenario.

 

[mmksparbud]

Wow!! Someone kindly looked up a fan for this computer on e-bay--I just have to figure out how to replace it!!

 

[stephen pollard]

Not a deflection--same scenario.

It is deflection, and catholics may well argue they do not pray to the dead(in their view) The biblical facts remain:
Sin is the transgression of the law
Through the law we become conscious of sin
What is in your mind, you in your mind must know
The law in your heart must bring heartfelt conviction of sin if you wilfully transgress it. That is the Christianity I know, maybe sda do not know that kind of christianity

 

[Cis.jd]

Christianity Today wrote an article in Jan 22 of 2015 stating that the SDA church is the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world and one of the fastest growing if not the fastest growing.

Your statement that "cult is determined by size of group" sounds like creative writing - did you make that up or is that "Websters"??

The Christian church itself started "small" is it your claim that the Christian church itself used to be a cult??

If you read my post, you would see that I do acknowledge SDA as an actual denomination now, but like 20+ years ago it was too small to be considered a denomination. My statement that you think sounds as creative writing is actually out of the dictionary. One of the definitions of cults is a "small group of people".. so it's quite understandable why people who are from the 90's or lower are not as updated with the status of the SDA and still view it as a new belief or cult.

You last sentence is correct. In fact, many historians state that during the start, Christianity was viewed as a offshoot cult of Judaism because it did consist of small and cohesive group of people to be called/viewed as an actual religion during that time.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Walter Martin did not call the Seventh-day Adventist church a cult in that book. Rather in that book Martin refuted Robert Hoekema's book on Cults where Hoekema had called Adventists a cult. See the appendix to Kingdom of the Cults -- where Martin deals with the topic of Seventh-day Adventists.

Really? Well that's good then. I read that book decades ago, and my memory must not be clear on that. Thanks.

 

[1stcenturylady]

That is true.

However there were some key leaders of the Adventist church in the 1800's that did not accept the Trinity. The 1872 statement of Adventists did not oppose the Trinity but also did not make a clear statement on it one way or the other.

I remember hearing someone say that there was some early connection between SDA and JWs. Do you know who or what? Personally, I don't believe they are a cult either, even though they don't know the truth that Jesus is God. Mormons believe in Jesus too, though they have strange, man made ideas about the Father once being human. But I believe there will be people in heaven from every denomination, including those who pray to Mary.

The core issues of Jesus being the only way to salvation is what's matter. I was saved for a long while before I read a scripture that said Jesus was God. I even wrote "Jesus is God!" in the margin next to the verse. It was like an epiphany.

What really irks me is when I hear preachers on the radio say that JWs and Mormons have a "different" Jesus, when in reality it is the same Jesus. I doubt they know everything there is to know about God, as we see Him through a dark glass (1 Cor. 13). Not even all the books of the Bible can show us everything there is to know about Him.