SDA

[1stcenturylady]

And salvation, of course, depends on how much groups are respected?

That's a joke, right?

 

[klutedavid]

I find your logic "illusive" just then. looks like "creative writing"

I have met many who reject OSAS.
All the ones I met believe in Eph 2 - "Saved by grace through faith"
They all believe 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
They all believe Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
They all believe 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
They all believe that works will never get us into heaven ... only grace and the blood of Christ covering our sins - and the New Heart - new creation walking by faith - and in the Spirit.

They all know Matt 7 Jesus said "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the will of My Father" and they believe Jesus

They all know Romans 2:13-16 "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law will be JUSTIFIED.. on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"

Note that He is not including any commandments related to "Love God with all your heart"

He does not list "do not take God's name in vain"
He does not list "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "Do not worship false gods"
etc.

In that list He only includes things related to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

But he does quote outright - verbatim commandments from the TEN commandments

Such that Paul can say in Eph 6:2 that the 5th commandment in that still-binding unit of Ten is the "First commandment with a promise"



True.. as I said .





Yet we note that in Matthew 19 Christ is not including any commandments related to "Love God with all your heart"

your notion that these are not part of God's Law or that violation of them is fine... is an extreme position for any Christian of any denomination. Has nothing to do with SDA or not.

He does not list "do not take God's name in vain"
He does not list "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "Do not worship false gods"
etc.



Creative writing -- but here is what the text says in real life.

16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Bob, you quoted.

18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,...

You left out two commandments in your list.

 

[stephen pollard]

I find your logic "illusive" just then. looks like "creative writing"

I have met many who reject OSAS.
All the ones I met believe in Eph 2 - "Saved by grace through faith"
They all believe 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
They all believe Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
They all believe 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
They all believe that works will never get us into heaven ... only grace and the blood of Christ covering our sins - and the New Heart - new creation walking by faith - and in the Spirit.

They all know Matt 7 Jesus said "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the will of My Father" and they believe Jesus

They all know Romans 2:13-16 "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law will be JUSTIFIED.. on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"

Note that He is not including any commandments related to "Love God with all your heart"

He does not list "do not take God's name in vain"
He does not list "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "Do not worship false gods"
etc.

In that list He only includes things related to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

But he does quote outright - verbatim commandments from the TEN commandments

Such that Paul can say in Eph 6:2 that the 5th commandment in that still-binding unit of Ten is the "First commandment with a promise"



True.. as I said .





Yet we note that in Matthew 19 Christ is not including any commandments related to "Love God with all your heart"

your notion that these are not part of God's Law or that violation of them is fine... is an extreme position for any Christian of any denomination. Has nothing to do with SDA or not.

He does not list "do not take God's name in vain"
He does not list "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "Do not worship false gods"
etc.



Creative writing -- but here is what the text says in real life.

16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

It seems more than one seventh day Adventist does ''programmed responses''. You didn't put: ''Thou shalt not covet'' in your list, you know, the law relating to the inner man. I hope you are as zealous to obey that law, as you are to go to church on a Saturday. Don't forget, you are not condemned by the law, as long as you do not break the law, right?
break one you break them all, right?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It seems more than one seventh day Adventist does ''programmed responses''.

Hi Steve, is your term that you use for yourself and your friend ''programmed responses'' a secret code word for when someone is quoting scripture to you and you do not know how to respond to it so instead you choose to make up something instead?

If you disagree with something someone says why do you not adress the post and why you disagree with it and prove why you disagree with supporting scripture instead of ignoring the scriptures posted to you? You will have a better discussion if you do rather then ignoring what people are posting to you and making things up no one is saying

 

[stephen pollard]

Hi Steve, is your term that you use for yourself and your friend ''programmed responses'' a secret code word for when someone is quoting scripture to you and you do not know how to respond to it so I will make up something instead? If you disagree with something someone says why do you not adress the post and why you disagree with it and prove why you disagree with supporting scripture instead of ignoring the scriptures posted to you?

Let me ask you, concerning scripture.
Thou shalt not covet, the law relating to the inner man. It is as important to obey that commandment as it is any of the other nine in your view?
If you break one you break them all, right?
You are not condemned by the law if you do not break the law, right?
You believe, your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more as long as you do not break the law right?

Programmed response, deflection? Which is it to be?

 

[mmksparbud]

Let me ask you, concerning scripture.
Thou shalt not covet, the law relating to the inner man. It is as important to obey that commandment as it is any of the other nine in your view?
If you break one you break them all, right?
You are not condemned by the law if you do not break the law, right?
You believe, your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more as long as you do not break the law right?

Programmed response, deflection? Which is it to be?

LOL!---The things that are said when my computer cools off!`I don't believe anyone here has said that our sins are forgiven as long as you do not break the law! You break the law it is a sin. Anytime you do so, you ask for forgiveness and He is faithful to forgive--and forget. If you have Jesus in your heart at all times, you will not sin, because He is in you--but if you mess up and temporarily lay Him aside-- and covet that neighbors brand new killer car---He will forgive if you ask for that forgiveness. It's not rocket science!

 

[stephen pollard]

LOL!---The things that are said when my computer cools off!`I don't believe anyone here has said that our sins are forgiven as long as you do not break the law! You break the law it is a sin. Anytime you do so, you ask for forgiveness and He is faithful to forgive--and forget. If you have Jesus in your heart at all times, you will not sin, because He is in you--but if you mess up and temporarily lay Him aside-- and covet that neighbors brand new killer car---He will forgive if you ask for that forgiveness. It's not rocket science!

Ask Bob Ryan if he believes you are not condemned by the law if you do not break the law
Ask LoveGodsWord if he has previously stated:
You are not condemned by the law as long as you do not break the law
If you break one law you break them all
Your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more as long as you do not break the law/commit sin

I'm sure neither of them will break the ninth commandment when they respond

 

[stephen pollard]

You people do not understand. Why did Paul have to die to the law? Why did the law condemn him? Same reason as it condemns everyone today. you can tithe your money, read the bible, avoid alcohol and smoking(though they are not set biblical laws), avoid foul language, avoid committing the physical act of adultery, avoid stealing, avoid not taking the lords name in vain, avoid committing murder, avoid getting a hammer and chisel and bowing down before what you made etc. But that does not mean you obey the law. You only partially obey the letter that is written.

 

[mmksparbud]

Ask Bob Ryan if he believes you are not condemned by the law if you do not break the law
Ask LoveGodsWord if he has previously stated:
You are not condemned by the law as long as you do not break the law
If you break one law you break them all
Your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more as long as you do not break the law/commit sin

I'm sure neither of them will break the ninth commandment when they respond

It simply means that if you don't go above the speed limit---the cops don't ding you for speeding. If you don't sin, then you haven't broken the law--however, if you do -- He is faithful to forgive us our sins.

 

[stephen pollard]

It simply means that if you don't go above the speed limit---the cops don't ding you for speeding. If you don't sin, then you haven't broken the law--however, if you do -- He is faithful to forgive us our sins.

Unfortunately for many, they do not know when they commit sin, their threshold for committing sin is far lower than where the bar is set. Therefore, when they commit sin, they do not seek forgiveness of it. Whos fault is it they do not understand where the bar is set, the Holy Spirits?
If you make bland statements such as:
You are not condemned by the law if you do not break the law
Break one law you break them all
Your sins and lawless deeds will only be remembered no more as long as you do not break the law, you are setting a law of righteousness in place
And you are not yourself living up to it.

 

[mmksparbud]

You people do not understand. Why did Paul have to die to the law? Why did the law condemn him? Same reason as it condemns everyone today. you can tithe your money, read the bible, avoid alcohol and smoking(though they are not set biblical laws), avoid foul language, avoid committing the physical act of adultery, avoid stealing, avoid not taking the lords name in vain, avoid committing murder, avoid getting a hammer and chisel and bowing down before what you made etc. But that does not mean you obey the law. You only partially obey the letter that is written.

You die to sin when you are baptized and you have Jesus in your heart. You then have died to sin--as I said--if you oooppss!---then you ask for forgiveness. Just obeying the 10 commandments gets you nowhere. It is the reason you don't break them--because you love the Lord and He lives in your hear and you can't break them then, being human, we do and often do lay Him temporarily aside and go a little nuts and do dumb things and sin our little souls into hell if we did not repent and ask forgiveness. Repent means to turn away.

 

[mmksparbud]

Unfortunately for many, they do not know when they commit sin, their threshold for committing sin is far lower than where the bar is set. Therefore, when they commit sin, they do not seek forgiveness of it. Whos fault is it they do not understand where the bar is set, the Holy Spirits?
If you make bland statements such as:
You are not condemned by the law if you do not break the law
Break one law you break them all
Your sins and lawless deeds will only be remembered no more as long as you do not break the law, you are setting a law of righteousness in place
And you are not yourself living up to it.

That is what the law tells them not to do. Then they either understand or turn away from the truth. The law is the mirror that shows your dirty face--it doesn't wash your face for you--God's forgiveness does that because Jesus already shed His blood for that dirt and His blood washes you clean.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ask Bob Ryan if he believes you are not condemned by the law if you do not break the law
Ask LoveGodsWord if he has previously stated:
You are not condemned by the law as long as you do not break the law
If you break one law you break them all
Your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more as long as you do not break the law/commit sin

I'm sure neither of them will break the ninth commandment when they respond

You my friend like to twist what people say to you. This is sad for you and some others here.

Sin is the transfression of God's LAW *1 JOHN 3:4. God's LAW (10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSALMS 119:172. If we break any one of the we stand guilty before God condemned of sin. There is none rightouess no not one *ROMANS 3:10 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:23.

My friend this is the purpose of God's LAW its purpose is to show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that the wages of sin is death to all those who have not received the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23

God's LAW leads us to Christ [our Saviour] that we might be FORGIVEN by FAITH in his promised sacrifice for our sins *GALATIANS 3:22-25. It is only here at the foot of the cross all undone as sinners that we have a Saviour. Nothing as an offering can we bring simply to the cross do we cling and by faith alone claim hold of his exceeding great and precious promise of FORGIVENESS we then begin our walk in his Spirit (the Word of God *JOHN 6:63). If you are truly walking in God's Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.

Now you are free to LOVE him because he first loved us *1 JOHN 4:19 and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10 and is why Jesus says IF you LOVE me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15. Faith in God's WORD as our Saviour established God's LAW in the heart of those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *ROMANS 3:31; JAMES 2:18-20; 26.

What do you think the meaning of these scriptures are...

MATTHEW 9:12-13
[12], But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

* If you have no LAW then you have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20.
* If you do not know what sin is then you do not know that you are a sinner in need of a Savior *MATTHEW 9:12-13
*If you do not know that you are a sinner in need of a Savior then you have no salvation *ROMANS 2:12-13
*If you have no salvation then you are lost because you are still in your sins *MATTHEW 7:22-23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5.

The wages of sin is death in all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

If you do not know God's WORD how can you know Jesus? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. Jesus says those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

It does not look good for any that teach lawlessness come judgment day.

ROMANS 2:12-13
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;[13], (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

MATTHEW 5:17-19
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20], For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Sorry Steve God's WORD disagress with you.

Hope this helps.

 

[stephen pollard]

You die to sin when you are baptized and you have Jesus in your heart. You then have died to sin--as I said--if you oooppss!---then you ask for forgiveness. Just obeying the 10 commandments gets you nowhere. It is the reason you don't break them--because you love the Lord and He lives in your hear and you can't break them then, being human, we do and often do lay Him temporarily aside and go a little nuts and do dumb things and sin our little souls into hell if we did not repent and ask forgiveness. Repent means to turn away.

So according to James2:10 Christians are guilty of breaking the entire law for they do sin?
So dying to sin does not mean you do not sin after that?


I must admit, your posts, though obviously I do not agree with somethings you write are refreshing, for you do not just rigidly quote the letter, but are honest concerning your faliures concerning it. That is a good witness

 

[stephen pollard]

You my friend like to twist what people say to you. This is sad for you and some others here.

Sin is the transfression of God's LAW *1 JOHN 3:4. God's LAW (10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; PSALMS 119:172. If we break any one of the we stand guilty before God condemned of sin. There is none rightouess no not one *ROMANS 3:10 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:23.

My friend this is the purpose of God's LAW its purpose is to show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that the wages of sin is death to all those who have not received the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23

God's LAW leads us to Christ [our Saviour] that we might be FORGIVEN by FAITH in his promised sacrifice for our sins *GALATIANS 3:22-25. It is only here at the foot of the cross all undone as sinners that we have a Saviour. Nothing as an offering can we bring simply to the cross do we cling and by faith alone claim hold of his exceeding great and precious promise of FORGIVENESS we then begin our walk in his Spirit (the Word of God *JOHN 6:63). If you are truly walking in God's Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.

Now you are free to LOVE him because he first loved us *1 JOHN 4:19 and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10 and is why Jesus says IF you LOVE me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15. Faith in God's WORD as our Saviour established God's LAW in the heart of those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *ROMANS 3:31; JAMES 2:18-20; 26.

What do you think the meaning of these scriptures are...

MATTHEW 9:12-13
[12], But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

* If you have no LAW then you have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20.
* If you do not know what sin is then you do not know that you are a sinner in need of a Savior *MATTHEW 9:12-13
*If you do not know that you are a sinner in need of a Savior then you have no salvation *ROMANS 2:12-13
*If you have no salvation then you are lost because you are still in your sins *MATTHEW 7:22-23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5.

The wages of sin is death in all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

If you do not know God's WORD how can you know Jesus? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. Jesus says those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

It does not look good for any that teach lawlessness come judgment day.

ROMANS 2:12-13
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;[13], (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

MATTHEW 5:17-19
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18], For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19], Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20], For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Sorry Steve God's WORD disagress with you.

Hope this helps.

I see I got deflection. I twisted nothing, just quoted you word for word

 

[mmksparbud]

So according to James2:10 Christians are guilty of breaking the entire law for they do sin?
So dying to sin does not mean you do not sin after that?


I must admit, your posts, though obviously I do not agree with somethings you write are refreshing, for you do not just rigidly quote the letter, but are honest concerning your faliures concerning it. That is a good witness

Yes it dies--however--sin is a stubborn animal--it doesn't always stay dead and that is the only creature that Satan can routinely resurrect!! One day, he'll get his!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I see I got deflection. I twisted nothing, just quoted you word for word

I see "deflection" is your new code word for not being able to reply to posts with scripture in them that disagree with you. When you take peoples words out of context to posts provided to you is what many also do with the scripture

Maybe you can ask people what they believe rather then pretend you know and spread misinformation?

Let me know when you wish to discuss the scriptures.

Until then may God bless you as you seek him throug his Word.

 

[stephen pollard]

That is what the law tells them not to do. Then they either understand or turn away from the truth. The law is the mirror that shows your dirty face--it doesn't wash your face for you--God's forgiveness does that because Jesus already shed His blood for that dirt and His blood washes you clean.

The law is within you, it is not a law anymore written in ink. It is in your heart and mind. And I can assure you, that witness, the law in your heart and mind is of far greater conviction than reading what is written in ink to know what sin is. And, because it is there, your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. That verse does not read as: perform perfect and your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more
Repentance? How can you do anything other than say sorry to God when you go against how you in your heart want to live and know you should live.

 

[stephen pollard]

Yes it dies--however--sin is a stubborn animal--it doesn't always stay dead and that is the only creature that Satan can routinely resurrect!! One day, he'll get his!

If you hold the law to the pristine level it is set at, and are not ignorant of what that law demands, it stays dead for far less time than you may imagine.
Do you know, how close to Catholicism you are concerning this subject?

 

[stephen pollard]

Yes it dies--however--sin is a stubborn animal--it doesn't always stay dead and that is the only creature that Satan can routinely resurrect!! One day, he'll get his!

I was raised fundamentalist/Pentecostal. Amongst mainline denominations that is about as far away as you can get from the RC church. Indeed, some of the ministers favourite sermons was attacking their denomination. I seriously grew up wondering if any catholic could be saved.
Anyway, a few years ago I chatted to a catholic on a website. He was telling me about his christian walk, how he went to confession, believed his sins were forgiven, at that point, he might have said he was dead to sin. He then determined to live his life without the stain of sin in it. However, the sin returned, back to the priest for confession. As he was talking to me I was stunned, that is exactly the way my Christian walk was in my youth(apart obviously from going to a priest for confession). For I to would ask God to forgive my sins, at that point I was totally cleansed of them, pure as the driven snow, however, no matter how hard I tried and wanted to stay in that state, the imperfections allways returned. I got very discouraged, I don't mind telling you. Unlike the catholic, I could not continue on like that. For I was constantly failing to live that perfectly pure and holy life. For what excuse could I make for, in effect breaking God's laws? Break one you break them all, you are not under the law as long as you do not break the law, you are not condemned by the law if you do not break the law etc