Where is the Parousia of Matt 24 showing in Revelation?

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, the Gentiles are raptured first in the secret pretribulation rapture. After that happens the seals are opened which are the same thing as Matthew 24.

The secret rapture is when Christ is behind the lattice. No one sees the coming except the bride. The door is closed and the seals are opened. The church is gone and strong delusion is given as to the reason. The fullness of the Gentiles has come in and God turns his attention to Israel.
Then there are 144,000 witnesses from the 12 tribes that become the first fruits of the second harvest. The fig tree has two harvests.

Can you show where in the NT and Revelation where it shows only gentiles are raptured at the parousia?
Also, can you please vote? Thks

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ooops......dp....


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[FredVB]

I find finally (so far) that I am not after all pretrib, midtrib, or posttrib, and still surely not preterist. I think what is represented with numbers shows there will be great tribulations in the future, and indeed maybe the very near future, but instead of fitting nicely in a frame of defined years, the troubles will gradually grow greater and greater. Some, or a lot, of the problems that are growing are the fault of Christians. They believe basically what they hear in church, and some Bible passages are never heard. And they don't take care of responsible living in this world and disadvantaged or exploited people in other places in the world, or even any help to homeless people in their own community. Conditions in this world grow worse, with growing curse from continual sinning and from choices that have contribution to worse conditions in this world. Believers will be around as the conditions grow worse, though they could live more righteously and not choose what contributes to the worsening, and many doing that instead would have the development they see not be as bad. I do think believers will be taken out of this world to be with Christ, but it will happen to remove them from all other people when Yahweh's judgment is going to come on all them for their unrepentant wickedness and destructiveness in this world, Yahweh's creation.

 

[iamlamad]

Can you show where in the NT and Revelation where it shows only gentiles are raptured at the parousia?
Also, can you please vote? Thks

Remember the verse where Paul tells us the fullness of the Gentiles must come in? There are many verses starting in Acts that show the Gentile church was separate from the Jewish church. All 12 of the disciples were Jews and were a part of the Jewish church. That church died out. But the Gentile church has continued to this day. I suspect that "the fullness" means God has a number in mind, and when that number comes in, the rapture will take place.

But then, God has another number He is looking for: the full number of the martyrs of the church age - seen at the 5th seal. So when THAT number is fulfilled, the rapture will come. Of course we know there are a few Jews / Hebrews in the church of today, but the vast majority are Gentile.

 

[iamlamad]

No wonder some of us can't find a Pretrib rapture in the Bible, it's a secret, apparently.

No, its not a secret! Look in 1 thes 4 & 5! Even if it was a secret before it happened, it would not be after, for perhaps half the world population will disappear!

 

[BABerean2]

No, its not a secret! Look in 1 thes 4 & 5! Even if it was a secret before it happened, it would not be after, for perhaps half the world population will disappear!

I wish you were correct about half of the planet belonging to Christ.

However, from what I am seeing half of the world's population is not made up of those who have been "born again" of the Spirit of God.

There is nothing in the text of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 or 5 about a trip to heaven.

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[iamlamad]

I wish you were correct about half of the planet belonging to Christ.

However, from what I am seeing half of the world's population is not made up of those who have been "born again" of the Spirit of God.

There is nothing in the text of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 or 5 about a trip to heaven.

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It will not be just those born again - it will be every child under the age of accountability. It is harvest time for God, and I believe He will harvest all He can.

 

[BABerean2]

It will not be just those born again - it will be every child under the age of accountability.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

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[parousia70]

It will not be just those born again - it will be every child under the age of accountability.

What age is that?

 

[Berean Tim]

Question.
Where is the Parousia spoken of by Jesus in Matt 24 showing in Revelation? Thank you in advance for your votes and responses.

Matthew 24:3 Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of the Olives toward-came to Him the Disciples according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be and what? the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952> and the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age"

IMO Jesus speaks of a celestial event before his coming in Matt 24. Rev 6 has the same event. Afterward in Rev 7 see a great multitude that no one could count. I believe these are the risen and raptured church. (I'm PreWrath)

 

[iamlamad]

What age is that?

Only God knows that!

 

[iamlamad]

IMO Jesus speaks of a celestial event before his coming in Matt 24. Rev 6 has the same event. Afterward in Rev 7 see a great multitude that no one could count. I believe these are the risen and raptured church. (I'm PreWrath)

Sorry, but the Rev. 6 event is NOT the same! There will be over 7 years TIME between two celestial events that are DIFFERENT.
At the 6th seal the moon is blood red - so can be SEEN.
After the tribulation the sign will be both sun and moon and stars darkened - speaking of total darkness! NO one can see a darkened moon with a darkened sun, because we can ONLY see the moon with sunlight reflected. Here, there will be no reflected light. It is going to be total darkness! By the way, Joel 2 shows us the sign of the DAY as at the 6th seal, and Joel 3 shows us the sign of His coming, as in Matthew 24.

I agree on that great crowd too large to number: that is the just raptured church. But the 70th week is still future, starting at the 7th seal.

Axiom on Revelation:
ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology in Revelation is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

 

[parousia70]

Only God knows that!

So it could be 100?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It will not be just those born again - it will be every child under the age of accountability.
It is harvest time for God, and I believe He will harvest all He can.

Can't wait to see that event in Israel from here in God's country of Texas.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7283568
The Harvest of Matt 13/Reve 14

Matthew 13:30
"Suffer-ye! to be together-growing both until the Harvest.
And in the time of the Harvest I shall be declaring to the Harvesters 'together-collect the darnel........[Reve 14:15]

Luke 10:2
And He was saying to them, "The harvest is indeed plentiful, but the workmen are few.
Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest, that He may send out workmen into His harvest.

Revelation 14:15
And another Messenger came out out of the Sanctuary crying-out in a great Voice to the One sitting upon the cloud
"send! the sickle of thee and reap! that came the hour to reap,
that is dried the harvest of the land. [Joel 3:13/Matt 13:30]

Jeremiah 4:3
Yes, the LORD has this to say to the people of Judah and Jerusalem:
"Like a farmer breaking up hard unplowed ground, you must break your rebellious will and make a new beginning; just as a farmer must clear away thorns lest the seed is wasted,
you must get rid of the sin that is ruining your lives.

 

[iamlamad]

So it could be 100?

Usually by early teens a youth knows the difference between right and wrong. If they grew up in church, probably younger.

However, what was the age cutoff of Israel when they refused to enter the promised land, and that generation had to die? Was it twenty years?

 

[BABerean2]

Sorry, but the Rev. 6 event is NOT the same! There will be over 7 years TIME between two celestial events that are DIFFERENT.
At the 6th seal the moon is blood red - so can be SEEN.
After the tribulation the sign will be both sun and moon and stars darkened - speaking of total darkness! NO one can see a darkened moon with a darkened sun, because we can ONLY see the moon with sunlight reflected. Here, there will be no reflected light. It is going to be total darkness! By the way, Joel 2 shows us the sign of the DAY as at the 6th seal, and Joel 3 shows us the sign of His coming, as in Matthew 24.

I agree on that great crowd too large to number: that is the just raptured church. But the 70th week is still future, starting at the 7th seal.

Axiom on Revelation:
ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology in Revelation is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

How many times in the history of the universe will the sun turn black and the stars fall from heaven to the earth?

Why would anyone be hiding from the wrath of the Lamb at the end of Revelation chapter 6, if the Lamb is not present at that point in time?

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[FredVB]

It will not be just those born again - it will be every child under the age of accountability. It is harvest time for God, and I believe He will harvest all He can.

Where is this assurance stated? Is it from preachers stating it, as if it is assured, and that they who know things know this, or that this is shown in movies about this event? Isn't it for actual believers who are redeemed with actually coming to Christ? Such are those who have repented. Even children of young age have opportunities for it, in the ways they can know, and there are such who come to Christ too.

 

[claninja]

Question.
Where is the Parousia spoken of by Jesus in Matt 24 showing in Revelation? Thank you in advance for your votes and responses.

Here are just a few verses, I'm sure there is more though.

Revelation 6:14-17
The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us f from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their g wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

Revelation 11:18,19 The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.

Revelation 14:14-16 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

Revelation 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

 

[claninja]

Sorry, but the Rev. 6 event is NOT the same! There will be over 7 years TIME between two celestial events that are DIFFERENT.
At the 6th seal the moon is blood red - so can be SEEN.
After the tribulation the sign will be both sun and moon and stars darkened - speaking of total darkness! NO one can see a darkened moon with a darkened sun, because we can ONLY see the moon with sunlight reflected. Here, there will be no reflected light. It is going to be total darkness! By the way, Joel 2 shows us the sign of the DAY as at the 6th seal, and Joel 3 shows us the sign of His coming, as in Matthew 24.

I agree on that great crowd too large to number: that is the just raptured church. But the 70th week is still future, starting at the 7th seal.

Axiom on Revelation:
ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology in Revelation is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

The 6th seal is when Jesus comes and the great white throne judgment occurs. As we can see in both passages the heavens and earth are removed. Do you believe that the heavens and earth are removed twice? Revelation is NOT in chronological order, rather it is a series of parallel visions.

Revelation 6:14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them

 

[iamlamad]

Where is this assurance stated? Is it from preachers stating it, as if it is assured, and that they who know things know this, or that this is shown in movies about this event? Isn't it for actual believers who are redeemed with actually coming to Christ? Such are those who have repented. Even children of young age have opportunities for it, in the ways they can know, and there are such who come to Christ too.

It is not stated in so many words. I go by the Character of God. Jesus loved children.
Then we can consider that all those who walked out of Egypt died in the wilderness - If they were over a certain age.